Thor Odinson: God of Thunder Appreciation 2020

[Ichijinijisanji]

...I don't think I want to ask why.

whenever thor fights people a lot weaker than him, to leave them a chance, they easily dodge and land many hits without thor being able to react. So like, daredevil or wolverine look a lot faster than thor in a fight and quicksilver runs circles around him

Other than that, relatively speaking, characters like superman (or others from DC like wonder woman) generally show more speed more consistently (like a lot more than quicksilver types)

So when thor fights superman or "fast" characters on Vs threads, he gets pummeled even if his other stats can compete. Hence "slowdinson"

[kilderkin]

whenever thor fights people a lot weaker than him, to leave them a chance, they easily dodge and land many hits without thor being able to react. So like, daredevil or wolverine look a lot faster than thor in a fight and quicksilver runs circles around him

Other than that, relatively speaking, characters like superman (or others from DC like wonder woman) generally show more speed more consistently (like a lot more than quicksilver types)

So when thor fights superman or "fast" characters on Vs threads, he gets pummeled even if his other stats can compete. Hence "slowdinson"

Totally

Let's not forget him besting gladiator and Hyperion both super fast

And even wonder man who has instantaneous reflexes

He's been shown tracking super fast objects including beyond light speed in his early days

Mjolnir has been swing and moved faster than light

Sure he's not a speedster but the idea he can't cope with them is sadly forgotten to give weaker characters a better showing

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Totally

Let's not forget him besting gladiator and Hyperion both super fast

And even wonder man who has instantaneous reflexes

He's been shown tracking super fast objects including beyond light speed in his early days

Mjolnir has been swing and moved faster than light

Sure he's not a speedster but the idea he can't cope with them is sadly forgotten to give weaker characters a better showing

Thor never had the same respect as Superman and Hulk among comic book fans and modern writers sadly. He was always a niche character before the MCU.

[Cronus]

Thor never had the same respect as Superman and Hulk among comic book fans and modern writers sadly. He was always a niche character before the MCU.

And maybe more importantly, the larger fan base. But yeah, Thor is pretty well disrespected as a general rule of thumb.

[Cronus]

Totally

Let's not forget him besting gladiator and Hyperion both super fast

And even wonder man who has instantaneous reflexes

He's been shown tracking super fast objects including beyond light speed in his early days

Mjolnir has been swing and moved faster than light

Sure he's not a speedster but the idea he can't cope with them is sadly forgotten to give weaker characters a better showing

Thing is, I dont personally draw the conclusion Thor is actually somehow able to deal with characters like Gladiator who have plenty of feats indicating they have super speed. I have Gladiator right around light speed as far as reaction speed. If a character nebulously mitigating another character's super speed were the only criteria for indicating that that character actually has super reaction speed, then we would have to say that Wally West (for example) can actually get tagged by Deathstroke, Titus or Girder. There are certainly times when scaling can be used to draw conclusions about a character's reaction speed, but other factors should be considered.

[HaveAtThee]

The problem of superhero comics in the last 20 years is this exact phrase that Cates stated in that interview;

"He'll be as powerful as the plot requires him to be." Therein lies the problem. A lack of creative and editorial discipline. Plot > character has been a staple of Marvel since Quesada onward.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

The problem of superhero comics in the last 20 years is this exact phrase that Cates stated in that interview;

"He'll be as powerful as the plot requires him to be." Therein lies the problem. A lack of creative and editorial discipline. Plot > character has been a staple of Marvel since Quesada onward.

At least the Quesada era gave us Annihilation, Planet Hulk and JMS Thor. But on the other hand we got a big carnival of character assasination with Civil War, One More Day and Bendis related drek.

Editors would rather argue on forums and twitter, making fun of fans, than do their jobs or ask people to stick to the continuity rules established in universe, because work is hard and snark is easy. Nick Lowe, Steve Wacker and Tom Brevoort have jobs they can't be bothered to do properly. Dan Didio hated it so much, he rebooted everything at DC instead. In publishing of literature, books go through 3/4 editors. A manuscript/text editor, a sub-editor who makes sure their work is properly done, an executive genre editor to make suggestions about possible alterations that could make it more profitable, and an editor in chief, who really does very little because most of the work is done and if anything just cuts down the excess to make the story flow but excises parts for page count purposes by making notes to kick back down to the sub-editor to do. There is not that same kind of quality control in comics anymore because the lines are too wide, the deadlines too tight and profit matters more in a dying industry than consistency. This is not the era of Jeanette Khan, Jim Shooter and Paul Levitz, the only art in mainsteam comics is on panel, not in the work in it's entirety. Even artists walk away under crappy conditions because of the BS they deal with when they can get better work and respect for their efforts elsewhere, Marko Djurdjevic walked, Christopher Priest walked, Stephanie D'Orrico walked, Madureira puts comics waaaay below his priorities for doing concept art for computer games but they still ask him back again and again to fail his deadlines... it's a brutal industry on life support that relies on fanboy love from both the audience and talent.

This problem is deep...its rooted in some stuff that developed with a real reason. Marvel Knights was the biggest factor...it had a completely disjointed continuity that still is unclear nearly 15 years later...MK sold tons and forged the new face of marvel. Joe Quesada was a product of this and everyone he brought up falls in line with his thinking. It set the tone.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Thing is, I dont personally draw the conclusion Thor is actually somehow able to deal with characters like Gladiator who have plenty of feats indicating they have super speed. I have Gladiator right around light speed as far as reaction speed. If a character nebulously mitigating another character's super speed were the only criteria for indicating that that character actually has super reaction speed, then we would have to say that Wally West (for example) can actually get tagged by Deathstroke, Titus or Girder. There are certainly times when scaling can be used to draw conclusions about a character's reaction speed, but other factors should be considered.

Yeah, Deathstroke overpowering Green Lantern's ring (Kyle Rayner) was one of the dumbest parts of Identity Crisis.

[JackDaw]

The problem of superhero comics in the last 20 years is this exact phrase that Cates stated in that interview;

"He'll be as powerful as the plot requires him to be." Therein lies the problem. A lack of creative and editorial discipline. Plot > character has been a staple of Marvel since Quesada onward.

In general, comic fans are very, very tolerant of a lot of average (being generous) writing.

I’ve long got to point where everything has to be right before I bother getting a super hero comic...it has to be a character I like, a favourite writer, and a favourite artist...then I might buy.

[Flash Gordon]

The problem of superhero comics in the last 20 years is this exact phrase that Cates stated in that interview;

"He'll be as powerful as the plot requires him to be." Therein lies the problem. A lack of creative and editorial discipline. Plot > character has been a staple of Marvel since Quesada onward.

Yeah, things are just SO plot heavy that there's little to no room for actual character.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Here's another classic fight with Juggernaut.

[kilderkin]

Thing is, I dont personally draw the conclusion Thor is actually somehow able to deal with characters like Gladiator who have plenty of feats indicating they have super speed. I have Gladiator right around light speed as far as reaction speed. If a character nebulously mitigating another character's super speed were the only criteria for indicating that that character actually has super reaction speed, then we would have to say that Wally West (for example) can actually get tagged by Deathstroke, Titus or Girder. There are certainly times when scaling can be used to draw conclusions about a character's reaction speed, but other factors should be considered.

I'm not totally sure I follow you in the middle there

If I do

I do get what you saying, but I think it's worth remembering that moving the whole body at those speeds is not the same as reaction times

If fact Thor's overall speed rating is about as fast as it's possible to be on the power grid, but of course others do have better reaction speeds

My point wasn't that he reacts as fast as day gladiator, rather that he is fast enough and seasoned enough to cope with it, and certainly he can move mjolnir at those speeds

Either way, the idea he can't tag someone like daredevil is ridiculous, it's reasonable to valuate Asgardians of average health and battle ability have far superior reflexes than humans in battle given thor has deflected bullets and others like did, fandral and more have demonstrated vastly quicker feats

[JackDaw]

Either way, the idea he can't tag someone like daredevil is ridiculous, it's reasonable to valuate Asgardians of average health and battle ability have far superior reflexes than humans in battle given thor has deflected bullets and others like did, fandral and more have demonstrated vastly quicker feats

Taking the respective Daredevil/ Thor powersets seriously, dear old DD should last less than a second in any logically written fight.

But it’s one of the oddities of super hero comics that power sets are continually ignored. Personally I find it irritating...it’s one of the reasons why I read fewer mainstream super hero comic’s nowadays.

[themarkus]

Not about to defend Cates. But I'm pretty sure those aliens does have some kind of superstrength at least on par with standard Asgardians. Because in the panel with Volstagg, Balder is physically restraining one of them and it looks like it takes at least effort on his part to do so.

Also there's a Random Asgardian in the back whose being threatened, the Alien is holding his arm in a sturdy grip and the Asgardian is clearly surprised at his predicament. So these are likely not just Average human-strength extraterrestrials. They are also larger than the Asgardians which might indicate that their strength is superior.

Also, I think I'll view the rock to the back of the head as sort of a critical hit. Yes Thor can tank planet-busting blasts but he was ready for that attack, he could brace himself. He also still has a central nervous system and that rock (especially if flung by someone with some level of super human strength) might have hit him in the back of the neck and blacked him out for a few seconds. No real damage was done but he goes on his knees.

Re-reading the panel, I realize my memory has been fabricating things. It's not just a tiny, fist-sized rock. It's a fucking boulder. These aliens are clearly superstitious cave-men aliens with obvious super human strength. They're tossing 150 kg boulders around with enough force to launch them several meters into the air. Thor's also obviously fighting them, he's not just trying to hold them down. They're not five-year olds to him. That's the wrong analogy to use here. If he is The Mountain/Hafthor Bjornsson then they are 1000 eighteen yearold athletes. He's still stronger than them by magnitudes but they are juuuust strong enough that when there's 10 of them and only 1 of him, he has to take it seriously. He clocks one with Mjolnir and the Alien's head does not just explode in a pasty mist so they're clearly also durable enough to survive a beating from Thor.

Now, I get it. It's not been long since Aaron left. The wounds are still fresh. It is easy to be defensive and look for excuses to say "thor still sucks". We've been burnt before. Some might not want to let their guards down. But this comic is not as bad as some say. Those complaining about wonky power levels are, as far as I can see here, a bit wrong. Thor isn't shown as "weak", not to my mind. Refute my points of someone think they can but I think this is a good showing for our favourite Asgardian. He IS noble, he has principles, he is powerful but he is also still very much a Viking God. I'm actually interested in seeing where it's going. Not just hoping for scraps from Jane-thor's table.

Also. Just saw the 1994 fantastic four episode to battle the living planet. They're laying it on THICK with the Thor worship. And JRD has the dialogue down to a T.

[kilderkin]

Taking the respective Daredevil/ Thor powersets seriously, dear old DD should last less than a second in any logically written fight.

But it’s one of the oddities of super hero comics that power sets are continually ignored. Personally I find it irritating...it’s one of the reasons why I read fewer mainstream super hero comic’s nowadays.

I can certainly appreciate your point