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  1. #1366
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    Back to reading Simonson's Thor. Just finished 356, another great issue. Just a grandfather helping his grandson grieve.

  2. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    btw, I'm not trying to say that Hulk is weak or anything but the fights with the Hulk is always filled with PIS and CIS.

    Thor's power set (powerful lightning, winds, Godblast 100% that can knock down a Sky-Father level being, Anti-Force) goes beyond Hulk's physical might and thunderclaps.

    Hulk is stronger but not more powerful and their fights usually end in a simple brawl cause writers can't write a proper fight.

    some writers also tend to write Thor useless without the hammer as shown in CM vs Thor.

    so either writers are going by that old saying from CA who said that Thor always holds back (1/3 of his power) when he is fighting mortals or writers have no clue about Thor.

    but yeah, this is way off topic so this is my last respond to the matter.

    anyone wonders how Galactus and Thor will beat this new threat???
    That's exactly what you are saying, out of all the fanbases Thors is one of the most insecure ones, i should know i have been a part of it for years. There is always some excuse for why Thor loses a fight, especially to someone like Hulk. To say that Hulks fights are filled with PIS and CIS is not only demonstrably wrong it reeks of envy. When it's pretty damn obvious the 2 are on the same level each having a different advantage and that they have one of the coolest and most even rivalries in all of comics, like if you have a problem with Hulk and Thor, imagine how a Superman fan feels with some writers trying to push him and Batman being "rivals".

    Hulk has been hit by Thors lightning, why would that be above Hulk? What are winds gonna do? Godblast blew a hole in Zelia, Hulk can heal from holes in his body, he has many times, this maybe a surprise to you but Zeus has literally DIED to having his neck broken, Hulk has had his neck broken several times and was fine, so while Skyfathers are much more powerful than Hulk that doesn't mean they all have the same abilities as him or other heroes, anti-force has been tanked by Gladiator and Kang and a weakened pre-core breach Hulk beat Gladiator, so i wouldn't put much hope into it. Thors history has clearly shown that his abilities don't go beyond someones simple physical attacks, some of his most famous rogues like Kurse and Mangog rely entirely on physicals and both have given him massive beatings and mangled him. Thunderclaps are pretty decent, i mean Hulks thunderclap knocked out a Hyperion who had Thors hammer bounce of his chest and knocked out Loebforce Rulk and most recently defeated a multiversal being so i guess it must be PIS that he never used one against Thor right? No, obviously not.

    That's how Thor fights 99% of the time, he brawls, like it or not that's how he fights, writers don't get much creative than that unfortunately, i don't like it, you don't like it, but once again this isn't Hulks fault, it's the fault of Thors writers in general in 99% of the fights he is in.

    That is also not Hulks fault as a character but how some writers perceive Thor, we can't change much about that, like Bendis thinks Hulks mind is less resistant to telepathy than Caps or Widows or Hawkeyes which is silly since Hulk has one of the most TP resistant minds out of any hero but there isn't much we can change about that, he thinks what he thinks.

    That old saying from CA comes from a What If comic btw, Thor has another statement when he says he holds back against mortals but by how much we don't know, although there have been a few times when Thor and Hulk clearly didn't hold back against one another.

    Listen i get it, seeing your favorite lose to someone else is not an easy thing(you think i wasn't mad as hell when Thor lost to Carol? Or when Hulk lost to Ben?), it irritates a person, but you can't always call CIS/PIS whenever that happens, it's very amateurish, i could just as easily say anyone of Thor level or even higher that puts Hulk down with their abilities is PIS because Hulk has quite literally healed from being turned into a skeleton, he has survived a blast from a Thanosi more powerful then even regular Thanos that literally fried him to a crisp no amounts of godblast or anti-blast or winds of a thousand worlds or whatever is gonna supersede that, the current writer even stated Hulk could literally come back from being turned into nothing, how does one overcome that unless they have some reality warping nonsense abilities? Or they turn off his healing factor/immortality somehow, they can't, but i dont wanna play that game. The easiest thing one can do is cry PIS and move on, but things are not as simple as that, Hulk hasn't existed for 60+ years on PIS alone, that's very disrespectful to the character.

    Anyway i am really gonna drop this subject now, but i get irritated when people just say PIS when that just isn't the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    T'Challa blinds Hulk by cutting out his eyes, then Thor breaks Hulk's knee caps with his hammer, keeping on the pressure so that the bones don't heal correctly, hobbling Hulk. Stark keeps Hulk off balance with sonics and flares, etc.

    Hulk has a healing factor, yes. But as Speedfreak demonstrated twice, that can be to Hulk's own disadvantage.

    Basically, all heroes in Hulk's weight class decide that muscle and nothing else, no passive aggressive tactics, rarely any teamwork, is the only way to deal with the strongest guy around. How is that not PIS?
    Immortal Hulk has already fought while blind, assuming Thor can break his kneecaps, Hulk still has his fists to strike Thor back or just thunderclap which would throw back everyone and KO or disable anyone that's not Thor, sonics and flares could be taken out with a single thunderclap, Tony's suit has been taken out in a single thunderclap already.

    Yea but that's because he heals so fast he healed over his hand as he held his split stomach, that's not really a disadvantage lol, it just means Hulk will heal too quick for them to do anything to him.

    Because 90% of heroes in Hulks class rely almost entirely on their muscle. Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, Hyperion, Red Hulk, Hercules, Wonder-Man, Namor, etc... all either only have their muscles to rely on or chose to do so because that's their main attribute, this is not a problem with Hulk, i can give you examples of Hulk getting hit by every kind of ability you can imagine from molecule manipulation to reality warping, from time manipulation to soul manipulation, from absolute zero to mind control, etc... He tanked it all and yet people still call this PIS. Basically there is nothing easier for someone like Pak or Ewing to have Thor hit Hulk with Godblast and him tank it, maybe it even blows a hole through his torso and he heals and what then? Would that make Thor fans happy? No it would piss them off even more because now Hulk has outright survived Thors strongest attack.
    Basically the problem you have isn't with Hulk but the fact that Marvel writers are bad at choreographing fights which isn't anything new, they don't do it because it's the only way to make Hulk win, they don't do it because they really don't care that much about it, Ewing in particular has talked about how he does not care who is stronger than who, who punches who harder, which is why all his fights in Immortal Hulk are so short and almost all of them end in one hit from Immortal Hulk.
    Last edited by Intothevoid; 05-16-2020 at 10:10 PM.

  3. #1368
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    What would you guys say is Thor’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

    Loki, Surtur, Ulik, the Enchantress, the Executioner, the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, Mister Hyde, the Cobra, Radioactive Man, Zarrko, Grey Gargoyle

  4. #1369
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    That's exactly what you are saying, out of all the fanbases Thors is one of the most insecure ones, i should know i have been a part of it for years. There is always some excuse for why Thor loses a fight, especially to someone like Hulk. To say that Hulks fights are filled with PIS and CIS is not only demonstrably wrong it reeks of envy. When it's pretty damn obvious the 2 are on the same level each having a different advantage and that they have one of the coolest and most even rivalries in all of comics, like if you have a problem with Hulk and Thor, imagine how a Superman fan feels with some writers trying to push him and Batman being "rivals".

    Hulk has been hit by Thors lightning, why would that be above Hulk? What are winds gonna do? Godblast blew a hole in Zelia, Hulk can heal from holes in his body, he has many times, this maybe a surprise to you but Zeus has literally DIED to having his neck broken, Hulk has had his neck broken several times and was fine, so while Skyfathers are much more powerful than Hulk that doesn't mean they all have the same abilities as him or other heroes, anti-force has been tanked by Gladiator and Kang and a weakened pre-core breach Hulk beat Gladiator, so i wouldn't put much hope into it. Thors history has clearly shown that his abilities don't go beyond someones simple physical attacks, some of his most famous rogues like Kurse and Mangog rely entirely on physicals and both have given him massive beatings and mangled him. Thunderclaps are pretty decent, i mean Hulks thunderclap knocked out a Hyperion who had Thors hammer bounce of his chest and knocked out Loebforce Rulk and most recently defeated a multiversal being so i guess it must be PIS that he never used one against Thor right? No, obviously not.

    That's how Thor fights 99% of the time, he brawls, like it or not that's how he fights, writers don't get much creative than that unfortunately, i don't like it, you don't like it, but once again this isn't Hulks fault, it's the fault of Thors writers in general in 99% of the fights he is in.

    That is also not Hulks fault as a character but how some writers perceive Thor, we can't change much about that, like Bendis thinks Hulks mind is less resistant to telepathy than Caps or Widows or Hawkeyes which is silly since Hulk has one of the most TP resistant minds out of any hero but there isn't much we can change about that, he thinks what he thinks.

    That old saying from CA comes from a What If comic btw, Thor has another statement when he says he holds back against mortals but by how much we don't know, although there have been a few times when Thor and Hulk clearly didn't hold back against one another.

    Listen i get it, seeing your favorite lose to someone else is not an easy thing(you think i wasn't mad as hell when Thor lost to Carol? Or when Hulk lost to Ben?), it irritates a person, but you can't always call CIS/PIS whenever that happens, it's very amateurish, i could just as easily say anyone of Thor level or even higher that puts Hulk down with their abilities is PIS because Hulk has quite literally healed from being turned into a skeleton, he has survived a blast from a Thanosi more powerful then even regular Thanos that literally fried him to a crisp no amounts of godblast or anti-blast or winds of a thousand worlds or whatever is gonna supersede that, the current writer even stated Hulk could literally come back from being turned into nothing, how does one overcome that unless they have some reality warping nonsense abilities? Or they turn off his healing factor/immortality somehow, they can't, but i dont wanna play that game. The easiest thing one can do is cry PIS and move on, but things are not as simple as that, Hulk hasn't existed for 60+ years on PIS alone, that's very disrespectful to the character.

    Anyway i am really gonna drop this subject now, but i get irritated when people just say PIS when that just isn't the case.
    Thor's problem is that he hasn't got a good writer since JMS and Gillen left.

    Are you referring to that cheesy story where Hulk turns into Za Warudo and fights a giant clone of Thanos?
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 05-16-2020 at 04:45 PM.
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  5. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    What would you guys say is Thor’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

    Loki, Surtur, Ulik, the Enchantress, the Executioner, the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, Mister Hyde, the Cobra, Radioactive Man, Zarrko, Grey Gargoyle
    Hyde, Cobra and Radioactive man being in his gallery is weird, like others either have the proper power to challenge him or are at least tied to his mythos.

    Hyde should be a Grey Hulk villain, Cobra should be a Spider-man and Radioactive man an Iron-Man villain. The rest mentioned are more or less fine, although Zarrko is an odd one as well, could easily be an Iron-man villain as well.

  6. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    Thor's problem is that he hasn't got a good writer since JMS and Gillen left.

    Are you referring to that cheesy story where Hulk turns into Za Warudo and fights a giant clone of Thanos?
    That is the main problem, i think in terms of power at least Cates is probably the best he could get nowadays, but time will only tell.

    Yea him and Nate fight a giant Thanosi.

  7. #1372
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    What would you guys say is Thor’s rogues gallery? One example I’ve seen:

    Loki, Surtur, Ulik, the Enchantress, the Executioner, the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, Mister Hyde, the Cobra, Radioactive Man, Zarrko, Grey Gargoyle
    You forgot Mangog, Kurse, Enchanters Three, the Dark Gods, Desak, Gorr, the Destroyer Armor, Ego the living planet.
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 05-16-2020 at 04:49 PM.
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    Marvel please stop using Thanos.

  8. #1373

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    Arguing a fight between Thor and Hulk is sort of meaningless anymore. Most of the time it ends in some sort of stalemate with either character having "the upper hand." Certain writers who prefer one over the other will show that character more shine. Editorial discipline went by the wayside 30 years ago roughly, so don't expect them to care about how a character would combat another. Main issue is that modern writers *mostly* suck at writing the more powerful characters.

  9. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    You forgot Mangog, Kurse, Enchanters Three, the Dark Gods, Desak, Gorr.
    Also Malekith, Perrikus, Man-Beast and many others, one could even mention guys like Surtur and Ymir although it's arguable if they are more appropriate as villains for someone like Odin rather than Thor, never the less both are kinda cool, would love to see Old King Thor fight them.

  10. #1375
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Also Malekith, Perrikus, Man-Beast and many others, one could even mention guys like Surtur and Ymir although it's arguable if they are more appropriate as villains for someone like Odin rather than Thor, never the less both are kinda cool, would love to see Old King Thor fight them.
    Mangog and Man-Beast are woefully underused.

    Hyde could get an amp that would make him a challenge for Thor. I like the idea of Thor having earth bound villains.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    New Dreadstar comic book https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-graphic-novel
    Cosmic Marvel is best Marvel
    #RememberThor
    Marvel please stop using Thanos.

  11. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    Mangog and Man-Beast are woefully underused.

    Hyde could get an amp that would make him a challenge for Thor. I like the idea of Thor having earth bound villains.
    Yea i would love for Hyde to get an actual amp, just last year he appeared in a Hulk one-shot where Hulk broke his hand and face, there really isn't much of a threat from him if you make him a brick that's in every way weaker than Thor. But yea i am with you on Thor having Earth bound villains, it's what connects him to Earth so it's a good idea, but there is no denying that Thors coolest foes are those tied to the Norse mythos or are various cosmic threats.

  12. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    Mangog and Man-Beast are woefully underused.

    Hyde could get an amp that would make him a challenge for Thor. I like the idea of Thor having earth bound villains.
    I think Absorbing Man and the Wrecking Crew, among others, fulfill that role. Hyde doesn't function as a foil and has been too weak to last against Thor for decades now.

  13. #1378
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    That's exactly what you are saying
    No I'm not LOL.

    Anyway i am really gonna drop this subject now, but i get irritated when people just say PIS when that just isn't the case.
    just put people on ignore and gg.

    People can express their opinion whether someone likes it or not unless there are some death threats.

    Btw, I never mentioned Hulk's recent incarnation and broken healing factor that they made up in recent years.

    I have't caught up to Immortal Hulk either.

  14. #1379
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    The Mother Storm needs to get a retcon.

    And Aaron's Odin needs a ''Infinity Abyss'' style retcon. That he was a faulty clone created by the original Odin that was sealed away because of a intellectual deficency that made him act like a boorish tyrant.
    Odin was a skrull all along.

  15. #1380
    Incredible Member Wall-Crawler's Avatar
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    Is Tyr older than Thor ? So many retcons have messed up with the family tree of Odin.

    Aldrif is the eldest, then how goes the list ?

    In the original canon (Stan Lee, Simonson, Jurgens) was that Thor is their firstborn, right ? Was Tyr established as a son of Odin since Stan Lee's days ? I don't remember.

    Who is older between Tyr and Balder ?

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