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  1. #1756
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    I still have some grain of salt for how badly the asgardians supporting characters got shafted.
    Not just them, the whole world and culture too if we're being honest.

    Asgard should have stood out as well as Wakanda did in Black Panther.

  2. #1757

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, they sure have unceremoniously killed a lot of major Asgardians, ho-humm .

    I guess between the two I'd be less worried about Bill then Balder. After how Waititi handled Skurge...
    Don't even mention it. That was atrocious.

  3. #1758
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Not just them, the whole world and culture too if we're being honest.

    Asgard should have stood out as well as Wakanda did in Black Panther.
    I feel like the studio wasn't really sure how to handle the entire mythos when they got started. Is it magic? Is it science? Aliens? Gods? The MCU never seemed terribly comfortable with Asgard and all the trappings that go with it.

    And I get that; ten years ago, not sure if the shared universe would hold up or if they could successfully bridge the gap between Iron Man's sci-fi and Thor's fantasy...I don't blame them for not having a clear cut idea of what they wanted to do or what direction they'd take. And then the first couple Thor films didn't blow people away and that opened the doors for some course correcting that has led us into some really weird territory.

    I feel like MCU Thor is what happens when you don't have a clear vision but there's obvious room for improvement.

    At this point I kinda feel the same way about Thor's MCU mythos as Loki does about sentiment; easier to just let it burn.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  4. #1759
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I feel like the studio wasn't really sure how to handle the entire mythos when they got started. Is it magic? Is it science? Aliens? Gods? The MCU never seemed terribly comfortable with Asgard and all the trappings that go with it.

    And I get that; ten years ago, not sure if the shared universe would hold up or if they could successfully bridge the gap between Iron Man's sci-fi and Thor's fantasy...I don't blame them for not having a clear cut idea of what they wanted to do or what direction they'd take. And then the first couple Thor films didn't blow people away and that opened the doors for some course correcting that has led us into some really weird territory.

    I feel like MCU Thor is what happens when you don't have a clear vision but there's obvious room for improvement.

    At this point I kinda feel the same way about Thor's MCU mythos as Loki does about sentiment; easier to just let it burn.
    I mean, I think the first Thor film had a decent balance between "magical" and "science" without taking a hardline stance one way or another and introducing the basics on Asgard. The Dark World just dropped the ball by not really expanding much on it in an interesting way.

    And they just blew it all up in the third movie.

  5. #1760
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    First film straddled the line well enough, but I wouldn't say they did a "great" job of it either. I mean, they did a good job establishing Asgard's visual aesthetic and all that, but I feel like they were worried about the "magic/myth" component and how to really integrate it, especially in regards to how Thor fit in the (still infant) shared universe, and in the end there's stuff that feels largely like a half-measure where they refused to truly commit one way or the other.

    And in Dark World you can see them clearly shifting away from fantasy and towards sci-fi, with space ships and laser guns. That film did drop the ball, as you say, but Iron Man 2 dropped the ball too and you didn't see Marvel completely change gears after that. They knew who and what Tony was, but I think their vision of Thor was fuzzy around the edges.

    I just feel like Thor is a franchise the studio has never really had a solid grip on, compared to the rest. You look at Iron Man or Cap or any other franchise and you can see a clear vision that persists across the movies even as the character arcs move them into different places, while Thor felt a bit less clearly defined even before Ragnarok. And of course, the Thor films weren't among the more successful IP's either so there was likely effort to rectify that and change what wasn't working with audiences. And in the end they just decided to fold Thor into the GotG framework of space-based science fiction and bad jokes.

    And to a degree that works. Ragnarok was successful (and despite its flaws I love it), Thor and the Guardians were a highlight of Infinity War, and at this point I feel like Thor fits among that group better than he does the Avengers. I'm cool with the outer space pirate angel and I hope to see Hemsworth in Guardians 3. But I don't think the studio really knew how to handle the IP and that's why there's been such a shift in tone and theme and genre. Hell, Endgame's talk about "everyone fails at who they're supposed to be, what matters is being who you're meant to be" could be seen as a metacommentary on this.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  6. #1761
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    If thor's strongest move is the GodBlast, I think his second strongest move should be the one where he charges up his hammer by swinging it in circles, gathering lightning and then striking with the momentum

    https://comicnewbies.com/2015/09/28/thor-vs-nul/

    Capable of stunning Nul

    https://comicnewbies.com/2015/01/30/...s-the-phoenix/

    Stunning phoenix.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/aa...c47073ac59.jpg

    KOing wonder-man

  7. #1762
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    First film straddled the line well enough, but I wouldn't say they did a "great" job of it either. I mean, they did a good job establishing Asgard's visual aesthetic and all that, but I feel like they were worried about the "magic/myth" component and how to really integrate it, especially in regards to how Thor fit in the (still infant) shared universe, and in the end there's stuff that feels largely like a half-measure where they refused to truly commit one way or the other.
    Which I think makes sense for an initial movie at the time, but there was still an openness to go more into the mystical aspect at a later point.
    And in Dark World you can see them clearly shifting away from fantasy and towards sci-fi, with space ships and laser guns. That film did drop the ball, as you say, but Iron Man 2 dropped the ball too and you didn't see Marvel completely change gears after that. They knew who and what Tony was, but I think their vision of Thor was fuzzy around the edges.

    I just feel like Thor is a franchise the studio has never really had a solid grip on, compared to the rest. You look at Iron Man or Cap or any other franchise and you can see a clear vision that persists across the movies even as the character arcs move them into different places, while Thor felt a bit less clearly defined even before Ragnarok. And of course, the Thor films weren't among the more successful IP's either so there was likely effort to rectify that and change what wasn't working with audiences. And in the end they just decided to fold Thor into the GotG framework of space-based science fiction and bad jokes.

    And to a degree that works. Ragnarok was successful (and despite its flaws I love it), Thor and the Guardians were a highlight of Infinity War, and at this point I feel like Thor fits among that group better than he does the Avengers. I'm cool with the outer space pirate angel and I hope to see Hemsworth in Guardians 3. But I don't think the studio really knew how to handle the IP and that's why there's been such a shift in tone and theme and genre. Hell, Endgame's talk about "everyone fails at who they're supposed to be, what matters is being who you're meant to be" could be seen as a metacommentary on this.
    I think it's definitely accurate that Marvel Studios didn't quite know what to do with Thor. Frankly, I'm still not convinced they know what to do with Thor. Even between Infinity War and Endgame he feels like a completely different character.

    I mean, if you're fine with the more comedic bent, Thor with the Guardians works but that just doesn't do it for me personally. I got enough of that with their revamp of the Guardians to begin with. I hope he's not in Vol. 3.

  8. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I think the first Thor film had a decent balance between "magical" and "science" without taking a hardline stance one way or another and introducing the basics on Asgard. The Dark World just dropped the ball by not really expanding much on it in an interesting way.

    And they just blew it all up in the third movie.
    I agree, I actually think they decreased in quality from a Thor mythos perspective as much fun as Ragnarok was, the representation of the mythos was a shambles imo

  9. #1764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Which I think makes sense for an initial movie at the time, but there was still an openness to go more into the mystical aspect at a later point.

    I think it's definitely accurate that Marvel Studios didn't quite know what to do with Thor. Frankly, I'm still not convinced they know what to do with Thor. Even between Infinity War and Endgame he feels like a completely different character.

    I mean, if you're fine with the more comedic bent, Thor with the Guardians works but that just doesn't do it for me personally. I got enough of that with their revamp of the Guardians to begin with. I hope he's not in Vol. 3.
    Totally agree, Thor at the end of war is astounding, but really since then I've been very unimpressed

  10. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    If thor's strongest move is the GodBlast, I think his second strongest move should be the one where he charges up his hammer by swinging it in circles, gathering lightning and then striking with the momentum

    https://comicnewbies.com/2015/09/28/thor-vs-nul/

    Capable of stunning Nul

    https://comicnewbies.com/2015/01/30/...s-the-phoenix/

    Stunning phoenix.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/aa...c47073ac59.jpg

    KOing wonder-man
    I miss his using the antiforce, really would have worked a treat on his fight with the sentry given Roberts weakness to negative zone energy


    Just a good power

    And the time he channeled the magnetic power of a planet into a blast, or his mentioning the lorn bolt

    So many things have been forgotten in the last few years

    I remember the time he spun his hammer so fast the air ignited around it, utterly brilliant

    I do love the lighting thing you detailed, very cool
    Last edited by kilderkin; 07-04-2020 at 09:30 AM.

  11. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, I'd hate to see them de-power her. Would just feel like admitting they lack the imagination to challenge her, which would be pretty sad considering the comics have some wildly powerful beings, and with all the FF and mutant stuff back in the fold that list has only grown.

    They could use some powerful individuals, maybe Korvaks or Kree Sentries or something, or maybe instead of going for quality they'll go for quantity and throw in the Brood or just a big fleet of star ships? Maybe a threat Carol can't just punch out, like a loose adaptation of Secret Invasion. Lots of options on the table.



    What If? does look to have much higher production quality, from the little I've seen. I'd be down with that show doing some Missing Chapters type stuff....but only if they can get the actors for the voice work.
    I really felt the big problem with her solo film, once she got her powers, was that they didn't challenge her, the villains and thereat were subpar imo, she wasn't really challenged in endgame either , given how she has been described I'm not sure how they are gonna fix that, coz as far as her being interesting, plot wise power wise, that's gonna hit hard too often for me

  12. #1767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Hulk View Post
    Don't even mention it. That was atrocious.
    He had a good send off, bit the rest was a shadow of the character

  13. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    He had a good send off, bit the rest was a shadow of the character
    Why was Karl Urban in that movie again? Why?

  14. #1769
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    I miss his using the antiforce, really would have worked a treat on his fight with the sentry given Roberts weakness to negative zone energy


    Just a good power

    And the time he channeled the magnetic power of a planet into a blast, or his mentioning the lorn bolt

    So many things have been forgotten in the last few years

    I remember the time he spun his hammer so fast the air ignited around it, utterly brilliant

    I do love the lighting thing you detailed, very cool
    I don't think antiforce is related to the negative zone or antimatter
    It just appears to be some sort of force. He used it i think first in thor 142? (correct me if im wrong) to bfr super skrull and then I think the biggest application was mangogg and thanos

    But it should be somewhat more unique than just another big blast. Part of the problem is redundancy. What's one big blast compared to another? Why use antiforce to bfr instead of powerful winds? Why use antiforce or the magnetic energy of a planet thing instead of Godblast? This is why those things have fallen out of common use in part.

  15. #1770
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    I don't think antiforce is related to the negative zone or antimatter
    It just appears to be some sort of force. He used it i think first in thor 142? (correct me if im wrong) to bfr super skrull and then I think the biggest application was mangogg and thanos

    But it should be somewhat more unique than just another big blast. Part of the problem is redundancy. What's one big blast compared to another? Why use antiforce to bfr instead of powerful winds? Why use antiforce or the magnetic energy of a planet thing instead of Godblast? This is why those things have fallen out of common use in part.
    That wasn't the real Thanos though.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    New Dreadstar comic book https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-graphic-novel
    Cosmic Marvel is best Marvel
    #RememberThor
    Marvel please stop using Thanos.

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