Thor Odinson: God of Thunder Appreciation 2020

[Alpha to Omega]

Is Tyr older than Thor ? So many retcons have messed up with the family tree of Odin.

Aldrif is the eldest, then how goes the list ?

In the original canon (Stan Lee, Simonson, Jurgens) was that Thor is their firstborn, right ? Was Tyr established as a son of Odin since Stan Lee's days ? I don't remember.

Who is older between Tyr and Balder ?

Angela can't be the oldest, she has to be younger than Balder (she was born after Odin and Frigga were married while Balder was born beforehand) who is younger than Thor and Loki (Kid Loki is literally seen in the flashback detailing Balder's birth in JMS' run). IIRC Tyr says he's older than Thor but the whole relationship between them is weird because for decades they weren't related at all (outside of a family tree in Thor: The Legend that also said Hoder was a Odinson) until Gillen retconned Tyr's brotherhood in his short post-JMS run. And poor, dead forgotten Vidar fits in there somewhere while no writer ever cared about Hermod enough to establish anything about him least of all his birth order. And Laussa should be forgotten with all of Fraction's other crap.

Honestly the whole family tree is a mess and is further proof that Marvel is in desperate need of editors that actually enforce continuity.

[Cronus]

This is one of the sillier arguments i have heard in a while.

Thor has beaten Hulk before, so have many other individuals, hell even Thing recently beat Immortal Hulk one of the stronger incarnations of Hulk and he isn't as strong as either Hulk or Thor but showed that he can beat him.

Where were writers/editors to stop that one from happening?

As a Hulk and Thor fan, let me tell you why Thor and other heroes have a tough time dealing with Hulk, it's very simple. Hulk is very strong, yep you heard it here first folks, case closed. But seriously apart from the obvious if you haven't noticed in modern times Hulks damage soak and healing factor have been pushed harder and harder. Back in classic times Hulk literally had no healing factor, none at all and nowadays he has one of the most broken ones in Marvel, because he lacks versatility as a fighter he compensates that by being a character that can have his head cut off, his brain destroyed, his heart destroyed, his body turn to swiss cheese, all his bones broken, his body melted, his body skeletonized, his body cut up into at least dozens of pieces, his internal organs all destroyed, etc... and still not only survive but keep fighting through all that. That's why other characters have a hard time dealing with him, the PIS actually happens in the opposite direction. Writers like Dan Slott have to ignore that Immortal Hulk can have his brains be literally blown out of his skull and still be conscious(literally conscious and still able to fight while missing his brain) solely for Thing to punch Hulk and KO him while causing no cosmetic damage to him even. But there are people out there that wanna tell me PIS is what allows Hulk to survive these fights... sure, sure.. a decades well established PIS that has allowed him to survive things 99% of characters couldn't, make sense.

The current Immortal Hulk series has gone to painstaking lengths to showcase just how hard it is to put down Hulk, to the point where the writer had to literally invent a new weakness for Hulk just so his opponents would have a chance with dealing with him and then also had to turn off his healing factor with a special acid at 2 different points and even then Hulks immortality finds a loophole to bring him back, which is the hard reset his healing factor gets when he dies. But yea Thor sometimes losing to Hulk is PIS obviously...

Anyway this is a place to talk about Thor, i don't wanna derail this thread, but if people are gonna talk about PIS here, PIS that, then bring some hard evidence for it. Because saying Hulk can't lose 1v1 is silly, considering all the times he has lost 1v1, even against characters much weaker than him.

Out of curiosity, in your opinion, given the the description you've given of Hulk's power and how difficult it is to put the guy down, how does Thor take away a win against (Immortal?) Hulk? I'd be interested to know how your assertions play out on Rumbles? Not that I'm an expert on Hulk.

Just curious.

[Intothevoid]

Out of curiosity, in your opinion, given the the description you've given of Hulk's power and how difficult it is to put the guy down, how does Thor take away a win against (Immortal?) Hulk? I'd be interested to know how your assertions play out on Rumbles? Not that I'm an expert on Hulk.

Just curious.

Against Immortal Hulk? I dunno, he would be fighting an uphill battle there as his healing factor is pretty broken, but if he hits him fast and hard enough he has a chance to take him out, like with every Hulk the longer you fight him the less chances you have of wining, hitting hard from the start of the fight is your best chance at scoring a win.

[Cronus]

Against Immortal Hulk? I dunno, he would be fighting an uphill battle there as his healing factor is pretty broken, but if he hits him fast and hard enough he has a chance to take him out, like with every Hulk the longer you fight him the less chances you have of wining, hitting hard from the start of the fight is your best chance at scoring a win.

Orrrr... any version up to and including world breaker Hulk. Your confidence is infectious. Maybe you feel confident enough to post a Hulk vs Thor match on Rumbles? I'd be interested to hear your arguments.

[Intothevoid]

Orrrr... any version up to and including world breaker Hulk. Your confidence is infectious. Maybe you feel confident enough to post a Hulk vs Thor match on Rumbles? I'd be interested to hear your arguments.

WBH would be a stomp honestly, i hate the CBR formatting if i post there I'd need to post all the scans as well and that's annoying, besides i regularly post on comicvine, if you want you can hit me up there, although something like a Thor vs WBH is pretty much a closed case honestly, there are more threads with Thor and Bill vs WBH or Thor and Superman vs WBH, etc...

[Cronus]

WBH would be a stomp honestly, i hate the CBR formatting if i post there I'd need to post all the scans as well and that's annoying, besides i regularly post on comicvine, if you want you can hit me up there, although something like a Thor vs WBH is pretty much a closed case honestly, there are more threads with Thor and Bill vs WBH or Thor and Superman vs WBH, etc...

You dont have to post scans, just links to scans which you should have ton of on the other website right? Also, me personally? "In character" battles have no place in these types of discussions because it's pretty much a bunch of hooey. Hence, I post here on Rumbles where plot and "character development" have little or nothing to do with the discussions. One writer recently said about battle oriented threads, "we rig the fights". He went on to say he was interested in writing stories and plots, not so much who beats who. Some writers care maybe? Pak for example, loooveess Hulk. But I dont think most writers are really interested in those questions. I'd go as far as to say, some are adverse to those questions. At any rate suit yourself. Have you thrown in your two cents on Twitter? I hear the topic of Thor and Hulk has come up or something? How goes the discussion?

[Intothevoid]

You dont have to post scans, just links to scans which you should have ton of on the other website right? Also, me personally? "In character" battles have no place in these types of discussions because it's pretty much a bunch of hooey. Hence, I post here on Rumbles where plot and "character development" have little or nothing to do with the discussions. One writer recently said about battle oriented threads, "we rig the fights". He went on to say he was interested in writing stories and plots, not so much who beats who. Some writers care maybe? Pak for example, loooveess Hulk. But I dont think most writers are really interested in those questions. I'd go as far as to say, some are adverse to those questions. At any rate suit yourself. Have you thrown in your two cents on Twitter? I hear the topic of Thor and Hulk has come up or something? How goes the discussion?

You could just go over at comicvine and see it already posted there. Yea i know Kurt Busiek said that, but no most writers don't actually care who beats who. Twitter isn't really a good medium to discuss in depth fights, so i have never really discussed Thor vs Hulk there with anyone, comicvine is actually pretty perfect because it has a huge base of people, it's very easy to format everything and some of the best debaters come to the site.

[Cronus]

You could just go over at comicvine and see it already posted there. Yea i know Kurt Busiek said that, but no most writers don't actually care who beats who. Twitter isn't really a good medium to discuss in depth fights, so i have never really discussed Thor vs Hulk there with anyone, comicvine is actually pretty perfect because it has a huge base of people, it's very easy to format everything and some of the best debaters come to the site.

Eh, salt to taste. I've learned shit tons from the most knowledgable debaters I've seen on the internet right here on Rumbles. And I've been to several debate style boards in the last 10 + years. You wont find a finer group of debaters than on Rumbles. Plus the mods here? Dont allow wankery and trolling. I love it here.

[Intothevoid]

Eh, salt to taste. I've learned shit tons from the most knowledgable debaters I've seen on the internet right here on Rumbles. And I've been to several debate style boards in the last 10 + years. You wont find a finer group of debaters than on Rumbles. Plus the mods here? Dont allow wankery and trolling. I love it here.

Suit yourself, but there really is no place better than comicvine IMO, it even organizes regular tournaments and has CAV's where people participate than other users pick who was the better debater, also there is obviously no trolling or wankery, one of the easiest things to get called out on, also some of the best Thor experts and most knowledgeable people on Thor are there, you should check it out if you want it has a bigger Thor fanbase then here, but has a smaller Hulk fanbase which is why i like it honestly.

[Ichijinijisanji]

i used to post on comicvine, i agree

[GodThor]

Angela can't be the oldest, she has to be younger than Balder (she was born after Odin and Frigga were married while Balder was born beforehand) who is younger than Thor and Loki (Kid Loki is literally seen in the flashback detailing Balder's birth in JMS' run). IIRC Tyr says he's older than Thor but the whole relationship between them is weird because for decades they weren't related at all (outside of a family tree in Thor: The Legend that also said Hoder was a Odinson) until Gillen retconned Tyr's brotherhood in his short post-JMS run. And poor, dead forgotten Vidar fits in there somewhere while no writer ever cared about Hermod enough to establish anything about him least of all his birth order. And Laussa should be forgotten with all of Fraction's other crap.

Honestly the whole family tree is a mess and is further proof that Marvel is in desperate need of editors that actually enforce continuity.

That was retconned.

Both Tyr and Balder said that Angela is older than them and Tyr is older than Balder who is younger than Thor.

Back during Stan Lee days, Balder wasn't Thor's brother and Thor was the eldest.

during Straczynski's run, Freyja was just one of the women he took during one of his feasts (she was black haired by the way).

however, Freyja new origin under Fraction is that Odin came to Vanir when they were still fighting against Odin so Odin wanted to spare them by proposing a marriage to Freyja who was still a teen (Odin a pedo) and had blonde hair.

so Odin went on to erase memories of Aesir vs Vanir war.

Angela was born to unify the truce, she gets killed when she was baby, Odin cuts off the Heven from the Tree, Freyja makes a deal with the Norns to give Angels souls to Hela when they die, Freyja didn't want any kids for a long time and then they decided to have Tyr.

So basically Angela >>> Tyr > Thor > Balder

Laussa isn't forgotten since she had a major lore in War of the Realms iirc.

[Alpha to Omega]

That was retconned.

Both Tyr and Balder said that Angela is older than them and Tyr is older than Balder who is younger than Thor.

Back during Stan Lee days, Balder wasn't Thor's brother and Thor was the eldest.

during Straczynski's run, Freyja was just one of the women he took during one of his feasts (she was black haired by the way).

however, Freyja new origin under Fraction is that Odin came to Vanir when they were still fighting against Odin so Odin wanted to spare them by proposing a marriage to Freyja who was still a teen (Odin a pedo) and had blonde hair.

so Odin went on to erase memories of Aesir vs Vanir war.

Angela was born to unify the truce, she gets killed when she was baby, Odin cuts off the Heven from the Tree, Freyja makes a deal with the Norns to give Angels souls to Hela when they die, Freyja didn't want any kids for a long time and then they decided to have Tyr.

So basically Angela >>> Tyr > Thor > Balder

Laussa isn't forgotten since she had a major lore in War of the Realms iirc.

Except that the retcon makes no sense and means Laussa had no reason to exist, since she was born to fulfill the truce which would be unnecessary if both Angela and Balder were legitimate. And at least according to Gillen who co-wrote the Everything Burns arc and Angela’s first book, Balder was born before Angela but didn’t fulfill the terms of the truce because he was born from a one-night stand before Odin and Frigga wed.

As far as I’m concerned, and just to keep things making any kind of sense, any mention of Angela being older is a continuity error, and considering most of those references are from the horrifically written Angela: Queen of Hel, where Bor had unsolicited opinions on Israel, I find it very easy to ignore them.

And I wasn’t saying Laussa is forgotten but that she should be. And her only part in WotR was in a badly written tie-in mini, I don’t even remember her even being mentioned in the main book. Hardly a major role.

[GodThor]

Except that the retcon makes no sense and means Laussa had no reason to exist, since she was born to fulfill the truce which would be unnecessary if both Angela and Balder were legitimate. And at least according to Gillen who co-wrote the Everything Burns arc and Angela’s first book, Balder was born before Angela but didn’t fulfill the terms of the truce because he was born from a one-night stand before Odin and Frigga wed.

As far as I’m concerned, and just to keep things making any kind of sense, any mention of Angela being older is a continuity error, and considering most of those references are from the horrifically written Angela: Queen of Hel, where Bor had unsolicited opinions on Israel, I find it very easy to ignore them.

And I wasn’t saying Laussa is forgotten but that she should be. And her only part in WotR was in a badly written tie-in mini, I don’t even remember her even being mentioned in the main book. Hardly a major role.

it makes no sense either way though.

Balder never knew about Angela and Tyr is the eldest son (meaning older than Balder and Thor and son of Odin and Freyja) and he didn't knew about her either or Angels since they didn't participate in that war.

how can Thor call Angela older sister if we know that Balder is younger (Thor knows that as well)???

if Balder is older than Angela and Thor is younger than Angela but older than Balder, why does he considers Angela his older sister???

Thor is older than Balder and knows he is younger than Angela.

the entirety of Original Sin is basically Angela being the long lost firstborn that no one knew(she was called firstborn, not just firstborn daughter).

when they made Balder's backstory during JMS run, Frigga was just a one night sex during some random feast and she seemed to be an entirely different character. it was literally stated that he only caught the interest of Frigga during that night when everyone, including her, were competing for Odin's affection (she also had black hair and was grown up).

however, under Fraction, Odin met Freyja when Aesir and Vanir were still at war so they married immediately when the terms were set so Odin having a kid with Freyja before marriage made no sense if we take the JMS one.

so basically Fraction, Aaron, and Gillen clash with each other but Angela is widely regarded as being the firstborn.

Aaron pretty much created Angela having her being the very first born of Odin and Freyja which follows Fraction story.

basically, Gillen made more inconsistencies when you use JMS run (well, Fraction did as well) but they follow with Aaron and Fraction continuity.

at least with Fraction and Aaron, you can somehow place Angela somewhere.

Gillen one, however, makes no sense according to what he wrote on Tumblr since he seemed to ignore War of Angels timeline.

Laussa makes no sense regardless.

those are all some sorts of retcons, unfortunately, but they are following Fraction and Aaron's continuity.

[Will Evans]

Is there a family tree online? So I can see who Odin slept with? And the order?

[GodThor]

Is there a family tree online? So I can see who Odin slept with? And the order?

you better off not knowing cause there are many inconsistencies like we are discussing now xd