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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Jacob for Bette
    Julia for Kate
    Team with Azrael and Batwing
    Whichever's fine because Kate doesn't have the Nightwing problem of hey let's me make you Batman's damsel and derail your story for 2 years
    Maggie if the Superman department is willing. Two-Face needs Renee.
    Bette as Hawkfire
    Red Alice is the good one right? Character development stays
    I don't like extremist Jacob but The Colony is a cool idea. Haven't decided yet
    if she's not on good terms with Batman then make it good term in a way that makes sense
    You know what that's my answer for Jacob too
    I think she needs the crossover because unless JH Williams III on the title they don't last very long
    Costume design's fine. Maybe add some insulation feature because last I check she's been taken down by electricity
    if we keep her facing monsters and supernaturals then I want Deacon Blackfire
    or you know... every member of the fam have faced Ra's except for Kate I think
    Can Kate swordfight?
    I say yes to everything except Hawkfire. I despise Hawkfire. I want her as a Flamebird with her beautiful costume by justiniano

  2. #272
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Jacob or Julia as tech support? Neither? Both?
    Jacob in the chair, Julia as field support.

    In a Team, or solo?
    Solo. She's technically never had a series where she's completely done her own thing.

    Operates mostly in Gotham, globetrotting, or somewhere else?
    Both. Either.

    Renee or Maggie as love interest? Or someone entirely new?
    Renee. They're the current couple, and Kate stated in the last series that she wants to "build roots". Part of that means settling down a bit. I don't want Kate to just be ping-ponging around, because that's contrary to her character now. And I definitely don't want a new character in the mix. Let her and Renee actually be a couple.

    Bette as Flamebird, civilian, or no Bette?
    I want a continuation of Bette's Army service. There's so much that could be done with that.

    Alice, Red Alice, or no Alice?
    Alice as in Beth, who is currently getting treatment, which Julia is assisting with. Again, carry on where things left off. I don't want Beth ever going back to being a villain or to Red Alice. There's zero reason to.

    On good terms with Jacob or estranged?
    Good terms. Again, start where things left off. Jacob's never actually been the bad guy, and making him into Sam Lane is not the way to go.

    On good terms with Batman, indifferent, or estranged?
    Good terms.

    More cross-overs and team-ups with other heroes and Bat-Family? Or kept minimal?
    More.

    Costume update, or no changes?
    Nothing except an actual full cowl. Maybe a leg holster for her grapnel gun for a bit of asymmetry. But there's good reason she's not had a major design revamp in over a decade.

    More fleshed-out Rogues Gallery?
    I don't actually like the idea of her having a dedicated rogues gallery. For being a superhero, Kate has had a tendency since her creation of hewing away from a lot of typical superhero conventions, and that's been one of them. Part of what I like about her is that she's not that comic-booky, relatively speaking.
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  3. #273
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Jacob for Bette
    Julia for Kate
    If they are on the same team, how would that work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Team with Azrael and Batwing
    So kinda like a smaller version of the Gotham Knights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Bette as Hawkfire
    Red Alice is the good one right? Character development stays
    I don't like extremist Jacob but The Colony is a cool idea. Haven't decided yet
    Red Alice was a bit meh IMO, they'd need to develop her a lot more, and not in the way of the Future's End story where she overshadowed Kate and then killed her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    if she's not on good terms with Batman then make it good term in a way that makes sense
    You know what that's my answer for Jacob too
    Currently I'd say she's on okay terms with Batman. They worked together in Tec #1025, but she was quick to remind him that they're not a Team anymore. They had some cousin rivalry thing going where they called each other Kane and Wayne instead of by first name like they used to. Overall, Bruce was accommodating when she decided to come along, and made him ride on the back of her bike (fair enough as she stated it's her bike). They weren't unfriendly, but IMO Kate seemed like she was keeping her distance in a way. Which is understandable IMO since he did manipulate her (into joining the team) the last time they were in a Team (and sent Julia to spy/babysit on her when they weren't).

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I think she needs the crossover because unless JH Williams III on the title they don't last very long
    Costume design's fine. Maybe add some insulation feature because last I check she's been taken down by electricity
    if we keep her facing monsters and supernaturals then I want Deacon Blackfire
    or you know... every member of the fam have faced Ra's except for Kate I think
    Can Kate swordfight?
    Yeah, the lack of cross-overs and team-ups in the last solo was a letdown IMO.
    The electricity weakness is good, got to have some weaknesses or there's no stakes and things get dull.
    I've seen her fight with a staff, a club, and batons, but not a sword so far. She also uses guns, and I think a crossbow at one point.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 09-21-2020 at 07:20 PM.

  4. #274
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    I've seen her fight with a staff, a club, and batons, but not a sword so far.
    She used one in the very last issue of the Rebirth series:

    KateSword.jpg

    An unfamiliar sword at that, and while spinning, yet she was still accurate and effective. I'd say it's plenty reasonable she's had sword training.
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  5. #275
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Jacob in the chair, Julia as field support.
    Interesting, so more like the Julia from TV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Solo. She's technically never had a series where she's completely done her own thing.
    Hm, IMO part of the problem with her solos, and most notably the last one, was not having enough interesting support characters to bounce off of. Julia was too similar in personality which is why IMO Bette worked better.
    I quite liked the Gotham City Monsters, but that was mostly because I find the concept of Batwoman and Killer-Croc being in a team to be awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Renee. They're the current couple, and Kate stated in the last series that she wants to "build roots". Part of that means settling down a bit. I don't want Kate to just be ping-ponging around, because that's contrary to her character now. And I definitely don't want a new character in the mix. Let her and Renee actually be a couple.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I want a continuation of Bette's Army service. There's so much that could be done with that.

    Alice as in Beth, who is currently getting treatment, which Julia is assisting with. Again, carry on where things left off. I don't want Beth ever going back to being a villain or to Red Alice. There's zero reason to.
    That pretty much excludes them both from joining Kate in the field though, but puts them firmly in the civilian support character role. Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Good terms. Again, start where things left off. Jacob's never actually been the bad guy, and making him into Sam Lane is not the way to go.
    At this point I find Jacob to be contradictory and confusing in characterization - because between the different writers he feels the most inconsistent of Kate's cast. I'm kinda meh on whatever gets done with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Good terms.
    Almost always turning-up to the Bat-Family get togethers then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    More.
    Yeah, it would be nice to see her interact more with the others. She's never spoken to Damian yet, has she?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Nothing except an actual full cowl. Maybe a leg holster for her grapnel gun for a bit of asymmetry. But there's good reason she's not had a major design revamp in over a decade.
    I'd like to see her hair be more like Captain Marvel (the helmeted version) and Wally West where it's short but still visible - like a faux-mohawk, but that's a personal preference, heh. So no wig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I don't actually like the idea of her having a dedicated rogues gallery. For being a superhero, Kate has had a tendency since her creation of hewing away from a lot of typical superhero conventions, and that's been one of them. Part of what I like about her is that she's not that comic-booky, relatively speaking.
    Oh, I'm the opposite, bring on the Rogue's Gallery! More wacky than Safiya and The Knife (meh and meh)! Gotta have some unique ones that at least start as hers, instead of borrowing Bruce's all the time (which is fine, but some more of her own would be nice).
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 09-21-2020 at 08:26 PM.

  6. #276
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    If they are on the same team, how would that work?



    So kinda like a smaller version of the Gotham Knights?



    Red Alice was a bit meh IMO, they'd need to develop her a lot more, and not in the way of the Future's End story where she overshadowed Kate and then killed her.



    Currently I'd say she's on okay terms with Batman. They worked together in Tec #1025, but she was quick to remind him that they're not a Team anymore. They had some cousin rivalry thing going where they called each other Kane and Wayne instead of by first name like they used to. Overall, Bruce was accommodating when she decided to come along, and made him ride on the back of her bike (fair enough as she stated it's her bike). They weren't unfriendly, but IMO Kate seemed like she was keeping her distance in a way. Which is understandable IMO since he did manipulate her (into joining the team) the last time they were in a Team (and sent Julia to spy/babysit on her when they weren't).



    Yeah, the lack of cross-overs and team-ups in the last solo was a letdown IMO.
    The electricity weakness is good, got to have some weaknesses or there's no stakes and things get dull.
    I've seen her fight with a staff, a club, and batons, but not a sword so far. She also uses guns, and I think a crossbow at one point.
    I'm not sure if I want to team up Bette and Kate for now
    I'm on the camp that because if Bette is Dick's generation and has been a hero for a while she should've been better than what's been shown but regardless of her skills, Kate being protective of Bette the same way Bruce is attentive to Dick means they can be overbearing sometimes, so I think I want them to be on separate teams

    That said, both Jacob and Julia are mission control but who's more on the tech support or mechanic? If everyone's on the same team then maybe I assign one as mission control and information gathering while the other is more the mechanic or maintenance

    Yeah because the three don't have an ongoing right now, so I want them to join together. Although maybe I'll take out Batwing since he's gonna have his own mini in January.

  7. #277
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I'm not sure if I want to team up Bette and Kate for now
    I'm on the camp that because if Bette is Dick's generation and has been a hero for a while she should've been better than what's been shown but regardless of her skills, Kate being protective of Bette the same way Bruce is attentive to Dick means they can be overbearing sometimes, so I think I want them to be on separate teams

    That said, both Jacob and Julia are mission control but who's more on the tech support or mechanic? If everyone's on the same team then maybe I assign one as mission control and information gathering while the other is more the mechanic or maintenance

    Yeah because the three don't have an ongoing right now, so I want them to join together. Although maybe I'll take out Batwing since he's gonna have his own mini in January.
    I can't see Bette getting a solo at this stage, she'd have to be placed in a team somewhere, which is difficult because she doesn't seem to know anyone except Kate in current continuity.

    Hm, IMO both Jacob and Julia at once is too much - I'd pick one and dump the other, but that's just me.

    A Batwoman and Azrael book? Well, they wouldn't even have to come up with a team-name, just call it Batwoman and Azrael, heh.

  8. #278
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    I can't see Bette getting a solo at this stage, she'd have to be placed in a team somewhere, which is difficult because she doesn't seem to know anyone except Kate in current continuity.

    Hm, IMO both Jacob and Julia at once is too much - I'd pick one and dump the other, but that's just me.

    A Batwoman and Azrael book? Well, they wouldn't even have to come up with a team-name, just call it Batwoman and Azrael, heh.
    No, not a solo, but move her to other Batfam who has a book, like Babs, Dick, or Jason, whichever fits, and whoever chosen as her support move there as well. Babs has her own family so maybe not her, but Jason is going solo and Dick keeps losing supporting cast every time he changes writer. Might as well make it a Nightwing and Flamebird book.

  9. #279
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    No, not a solo, but move her to other Batfam who has a book, like Babs, Dick, or Jason, whichever fits, and whoever chosen as her support move there as well. Babs has her own family so maybe not her, but Jason is going solo and Dick keeps losing supporting cast every time he changes writer. Might as well make it a Nightwing and Flamebird book.
    In that case Dick would make the most sense, considering the retconned history. Plus, Jason already has a team.

  10. #280
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    I've just noticed that Kate appears in Batman/Superman #12.
    Has anybody read the issue yet? Is it good?

    Preview:






  11. #281
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    It was fine, but she and Steel aren't in it a whole lot. It's mostly a recap of what happened to get to that point. She's not written badly though, and the two will likely be in the rest of the arc.
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  12. #282
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Oh yeah they'll be the Superbat of this arc saving Superbat

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    No, not a solo, but move her to other Batfam who has a book, like Babs, Dick, or Jason, whichever fits, and whoever chosen as her support move there as well. Babs has her own family so maybe not her, but Jason is going solo and Dick keeps losing supporting cast every time he changes writer. Might as well make it a Nightwing and Flamebird book.
    I'm down for a Nightwing and Flamebird book. I'd say put her on the Titans but they love treating her like a joke so Nightwing's probably best for now.

  14. #284
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukiakari1203 View Post
    I'm down for a Nightwing and Flamebird book. I'd say put her on the Titans but they love treating her like a joke so Nightwing's probably best for now.
    This is the heart of the problem, but also the solution. The only thing to do with Bette if anything, is to pair her with Nightwing for some reason, some how. I'll get to that in a moment . . . .

    For other than Kate, Bette just wouldn't easily be worked into other Bat Family's stories. You could try, I guess, and of course, I am leaving out the idea of a new Teen Titans, West or however distinguished.

    Since some sense of real time / time span has to have occurred in the overall story, I really don't find any merit in continuing the vague nothing of Bette in West Point. It really serves no purpose. If it was important than it would also be more important to Kate, for any of her own reasons, and I don't see it.

    So let the Flamebird fly free, as it needs to. I really haven't kept up with Nightwing or any persona, but I know that earlier in his run there was this connection to the old Batwoman, Kathy Kane? And/or Spyral? an agency that she was involved in? So with that, I think the only way to use Bette with Dick would be some crossover or connection to that plot.

    But I've long felt, for years, that the editorial folks at DC just don't want that connection between NW and FB. I can't imagine why some talented writer couldn't create an intriguing dynamic between them, based on a vague past that could be lovingly and fully explored.

  15. #285
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Nightwing and Flamebird is an idea that sounds so obvious you can't believe it hasn't been done yet. But Bette's "current" ID is still Hawkfire right?
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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