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  1. #91
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    No different to golden age Captain America. His secret identity was PRIVATE Steve Rogers i.e. a rookie soldier.
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  2. #92
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    No different to golden age Captain America. His secret identity was PRIVATE Steve Rogers i.e. a rookie soldier.
    It's completely different. Kate's Army and Batwoman careers have zero overlap. They can't, since being a vigilante is her replacement for military service.
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  3. #93
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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  4. #94

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    Batwoman got me back into DC Comics and depending on who the creative team is I would gladly buy a new solo series with her again. Just have her keep out of the other Batman book, teams, and crossovers, since I have absolutely zero interest in Batman and the rest of his family, all of the DC teams, and crossovers.
    Last edited by Cyberstrike; 04-09-2020 at 11:15 AM.

  5. #95
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    That is pretty much my story. I was a long time reader; since 1970, at least. But I stopped after mid - 80s crisis.

    I work at a public library and came across its copy of "Elegy and I was sold. (I'd still been reading Marvel, all the while). this was a year or less before the new DC/52. But at that point I began regular pull at my LCS as well as several other Bat titles: Batwing, Batman, INC, Batgirl, Nightwing, maybe some Red Hood, but I dropped off that quickly.

    I liked her best with those original creators I experienced too.

  6. #96
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    That is pretty much my story. I was a long time reader; since 1970, at least. But I stopped after mid - 80s crisis.

    I work at a public library and came across its copy of "Elegy and I was sold. (I'd still been reading Marvel, all the while). this was a year or less before the new DC/52. But at that point I began regular pull at my LCS as well as several other Bat titles: Batwing, Batman, INC, Batgirl, Nightwing, maybe some Red Hood, but I dropped off that quickly.

    I liked her best with those original creators I experienced too.
    I eventually left all those others behind and kept Batwoman. I hated when she changed creators, but read until she was finished. Whenever I'm aware she is a guest star or recurring role ~ or a new title, like in the last couple of years ~ I will read that.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I eventually left all those others behind and kept Batwoman. I hated when she changed creators, but read until she was finished. Whenever I'm aware she is a guest star or recurring role ~ or a new title, like in the last couple of years ~ I will read that.
    Please, don't read Ragman. She was there for 3,5 panels and said boring stuff: This our (Batfamily) town. Blablabla. Thank you, Ray Fawkes. You can do better

  8. #98
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Please, don't read Ragman. She was there for 3,5 panels and said boring stuff: This our (Batfamily) town. Blablabla. Thank you, Ray Fawkes. You can do better
    It wasn't the biggest or best appearance, but she acted appropriately. It holds with how she acted toward Violet Paige in Mother Panic, so I'm happy for that consistency and maturity on her part.

    On a totally different note: I'm becoming increasingly disinterested in Rucka ever writing Kate again. In one of his recent Discord chats, he mentioned that he didn't like the idea of Kate and Maggie getting engaged, and apparently never even intended for them to get together at all. What? After they completely hit it off in Elegy?

    By itself, this would just be an annoyance, but he's also said a while back that he doesn't really care for anything she's been in after he stopped writing her, and that the Williams/Blackman run goes against his intentions. Considering that almost every single thing she's been in, including after Elegy, has also been good, that's so discouraging to hear. It's incredibly dismissive of not just Kate's growth and development as a character, but also of the work that went into it (including from one of his own collaborators!). Especially since the New 52 run directly built off Elegy. I just don't know what to make of all that except to be disappointed in him for that attitude.

    Kate's consistency as a character is a tremendous strength of hers, one that many superheroes don't get to enjoy. Since he has enough clout, I worry that if Rucka gets to write her again, he'll just undo whatever he doesn't like on a whim.
    Last edited by Caivu; 04-20-2020 at 01:35 PM.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    It wasn't the biggest or best appearance, but she acted appropriately. It holds with how she acted toward Violet Paige in Mother Panic, so I'm happy for that consistency and maturity on her part.

    On a totally different note: I'm becoming increasingly disinterested in Rucka ever writing Kate again. In one of his recent Discord chats, he mentioned that he didn't like the idea of Kate and Maggie getting engaged, and apparently never even intended for them to get together at all. What? After they completely hit it off in Elegy?

    By itself, this would just be an annoyance, but he's also said a while back that he doesn't really care for anything she's been in after he stopped writing her, and that the Williams/Blackman run goes against his intentions. Considering that almost every single thing she's been in, including after Elegy, has also been good, that's so discouraging to hear. It's incredibly dismissive of not just Kate's growth and development as a character, but also of the work that went into it (including from one of his own collaborators!). Especially since the New 52 run directly built off Elegy. I just don't know what to make of all that except to be disappointed in him for that attitude.

    Kate's consistency as a character is a tremendous strength of hers, one that many superheroes don't get to enjoy. Since he has enough clout, I worry that if Rucka gets to write her again, he'll just undo whatever he doesn't like on a whim.
    I understand where you’re coming from. For me, though, I’m chiefly interested in Rucka’s Kate. I view him as the architect of Kate’s character. As such, I would love for him to write her again even if that involves him undoing things from Williams and Blackman’s run that I liked. There are things I want undone as opposed to just being fine with. I want the blood relation between Kate and Bruce undone, Kate and Jacob’s relationship returned to what it was, and Kate barely involved, if at all, with Bruce and the “family.”

  10. #100
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice-named View Post
    I’m chiefly interested in Rucka’s Kate.
    Rucka's Kate is Williams/Blackman's Kate is Tynion's Kate is Bennett's Kate, etc. I have no idea why people think there's any difference between them other than the character development she gets in each run and carries forward... like characters are supposed to do.

    I want the blood relation between Kate and Bruce undone, Kate and Jacob’s relationship returned to what it was, and Kate barely involved, if at all, with Bruce and the “family.”
    No to all of that. Why would you want all of that good stuff undone? Why? That's a decade of character development and stories gone for no reason whatsoever. She's been so fortunate to have such consistency and long-form development as a mainstream superhero, and it's such a strength of her as a character. Wanting to toss all that is absurd.
    Last edited by Caivu; 04-20-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Rucka's Kate is Williams/Blackman's Kate is Tynion's Kate is Bennett's Kate, etc. I have no idea why people think there's any difference between them other than the character development she gets in each run and carries forward... like characters are supposed to do.



    No to all of that. Why would you want all of that good stuff undone? Why? That's a decade of character development and stories gone for no reason whatsoever. She's been so fortunate to have such consistency and long-form development as a mainstream superhero, and it's such a strength of her as a character. Wanting to toss all that is absurd.
    I don’t view what’s happened with Kate as character development but rather character change. Kate is someone who goes her own way. A reflection of Batman but independent. This key aspect of her has changed. The blood relation to Bruce, taking assignments from Batman (e.g. the monster venom hunt), permitting Julia Pennyworth to accompany her.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twice-named View Post
    I don’t view what’s happened with Kate as character development but rather character change. Kate is someone who goes her own way. A reflection of Batman but independent. This key aspect of her has changed. The blood relation to Bruce, taking assignments from Batman (e.g. the monster venom hunt), permitting Julia Pennyworth to accompany her.
    She's still independent. But the overarching theme of the New 52 run was that bullheaded "I can do it on my own" stuff like she was doing is bad and destructive for her. That's the development she went through in that series: becoming more cooperative and less isolated. It was a logical progression of her character, and was unambiguously a good thing for her, unless someone just wants her being a static, stubborn idiot who doggedly goes her own way regardless of any other considerations, I guess.

    Besides, independence is just one aspect of her, and not even the most major one. So wanting to just blithely cast everything post-Elegy aside because she might not have one relatively minor trait anymore... I don't get it.

    The blood relation to Bruce, taking assignments from Batman (e.g. the monster venom hunt), permitting Julia Pennyworth to accompany her.
    How do any of these things lessen her independence? How are any of them related to independence at all? Being a blood relative doesn't in any way. The other two are practical concerns: Monster Venom needs to be stopped, Kate can do it, and she needs some kind of assistance to do so.
    Last edited by Caivu; 04-20-2020 at 05:02 PM.
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  13. #103
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    The blood-relative aspect and bringing her into the Bat-family are smart moves from a marketing standpoint.

    It may not be what some of previous writers intended or wanted but if those changes hadn't been introduced she wouldn't have become visible to a larger audience. If the character hadn't had all those appearances and team-ups with other Bat-characters, as well as being pushed into Bruce's inner circle through blood, do you think she'd still have gone on to have a tv series in the Arrowverse?

  14. #104
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Exactly. And what's key to me is that they haven't just gone and done those things, they've done so in ways that feel realistic and make sense; I've said before that the whole premise of Rebirth 'Tec wouldn't have worked without Kate's character development from the New 52, for example. Things like that don't get seen nearly enough in Big Two comics, particularly to the extent they apply here.
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  15. #105
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Exactly. And what's key to me is that they haven't just gone and done those things, they've done so in ways that feel realistic and make sense; I've said before that the whole premise of Rebirth 'Tec wouldn't have worked without Kate's character development from the New 52, for example. Things like that don't get seen nearly enough in Big Two comics, particularly to the extent they apply here.
    I suspect the show will have some level of influence on the comics going forward, films and series often do, when successful.

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