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  1. #166
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    You're using the word "blame" a lot, which misses the point entirely. People tend to get very defensive when words like "privilege" get thrown around, not realizing it isn't about blame.

    This is simple reality. I have advantages others don't. Some people have more advantages then me. If we want to create a more understanding society, we have to be able to listen and respect each other. And that includes being aware of when we have privilege that other don't. Hell, the very concept of Superman is based on this. He's got tons of super powers, but he doesn't get defensive or goes into denial that others don't have those powers. He uses them to help people less fortunate than himself. Likewise, acknowledging the privilege I have can allow me to be a more understanding and considerate person than I would be otherwise. It's all about empathy for those less fortunate.

    As for some other points you made, racial profiling is extremely institutional (which is why there have been so many examples of unarmed black individuals being killed by law enforcement), and with the Korea thing you are absolutely proving my point. Citizens of North Korean face horrible oppression. Americans don't experience the same issues. That's an element of privilege. It's not about assigning blame. It's about acknowledging "Hey, I have opportunities here in America that I wouldn't get in other places."
    Again, it's meaningless. I am using blame the show uses it like that. Understanding one another is great. Having grateful for things you are given in life is great. But, this is different deal. Clark has powers, sure that doesn't mean he is privileged. If clark is privileged then a singers or dancer or scientists are privileged too. I mean these guys have inherent talents. Helping out less fortunate is a choice or an instinct. He doesn't have to. He doesn't owe anybody anything, only his adopted parents. That's it.

    Ok. How institutional? Where the accused capured and trialed? If not why? Where the officers found guilty? If yes, where they found guilty and not punished? If so then you have a point. Otherwise, you don't. I am proving your point. I meant too.i am trying to say a it's meaningless debate because these kind of inequalities cannot go in the time frame people are expecting it too. It was their during buddha walked the earth.it will be there when they are not. And people choose their fates to a degree. Koreans did as well. It's a sad reality.We can't create a utopia for all mankind on this earth. As said, mere idea of america, the philosophy it is built on is positive influence keeping aside the political conduct and decisions its leaders took.
    Look, i would love to continue this. But, this is just politics. This is'nt a politics thread. I and another dude derailed a legion thread a while back. Its kinda becoming my habit due to partially my stubborn nature.So,i don't want to do that to this one.

  2. #167
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Again mate,you are blaming a cat for being a cat. are those institutional?your american, right? Does your state demand from you different behaviour towards certain races and religion(btw, countries like that exist), Does it do it itself ? I know you are going for the white privilege thing. See, the way i see it. It's just a way of flipping a perceived hierarchy(perceived hierarchy because the state doesn't allow it) . It's all about power. This concept is used to flip that perceived structure. Even then, it isn't trying to get rid of a hierarchy. It's creating a different one.if the former was the case, then atleast it would have been understandable . If this is institutionalised, it would just be tyranny because the hierarchy is perceived and non-institutional in the first place. True, some sections in society who are backwards need some quotas. These quotas are given only because its not a level playing field and to level it. That doesn't mean you start treating those who are on level playing field as "privileged" with all the negative Connotations .As far as i am concerned, this is just another friend-enemy distinction which is used in politics to divide and unite for gains. Its nothing but stupid rhetoric which doesn't solve a damn thing. Only makes things worse for everyone .

    its blaming white person for being that. As far as i am aware, your state doesn't tolerate racism. If and when jon gets opportunities others don't ,on a same playing field then we will say he is privileged . The opportunity jon was getting in comics are because of inherent talent caused by genetics, because of his own ideas and struggles. If you start blaming anything for being that, it's the beginning of oppression.
    "a new born child bears no sin"
    racial profiling isn't institutional, as far as i am aware. And sometimes some classifications are necessary because of statistics, from data collected. It isn't because of race. It is same as the quotas given to the backward classes. There is a difference between reasonable classification and oppressive institutionalised racism or bigotry. Individual cases need to be dealt with like that.

    Korean example isn't ridiculous. It's self explanatory. It's not just voting rights and freedom of speech.You get more resources, opportunities and freedoms when people are dieing in theocracies, of hunger, poverty... Etc. The mere idea of america is helpful . Without it many countries in the world wouldn't have chosen to be secular democratic Republics. Which is a far better choice.
    I can't speak about other countries, but in the US, its painfully clear that white privilege is very real. I would try to give an example, but I would word it wrong. But here's a link to a magazine article that goes in depth about it here in the States.

    https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-j...ct-imaginable/

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Again, it's meaningless. I am using blame the show uses it like that. Understanding one another is great. Having grateful for things you are given in life is great. But, this is different deal. Clark has powers, sure that doesn't mean he is privileged. If clark is privileged then a singers or dancer or scientists are privileged too. I mean these guys have inherent talents. Helping out less fortunate is a choice or an instinct. He doesn't have to. He doesn't owe anybody anything, only his adopted parents. That's it.

    Ok. How institutional? Where the accused capured and trialed? If not why? Where the officers found guilty? If yes, where they found guilty and not punished? If so then you have a point. Otherwise, you don't. I am proving your point. I meant too.i am trying to say a it's meaningless debate because these kind of inequalities cannot go in the time frame people are expecting it too. It was their during buddha walked the earth.it will be there when they are not. And people choose their fates to a degree. Koreans did as well. It's a sad reality.We can't create a utopia for all mankind on this earth. As said, mere idea of america, the philosophy it is built on is positive influence keeping aside the political conduct and decisions its leaders took.
    Look, i would love to continue this. But, this is just politics. This is'nt a politics thread. I and another dude derailed a legion thread a while back. Its kinda becoming my habit due to partially my stubborn nature.So,i don't want to do that to this one.
    People don't choose where they are born. A person born in North Korea has no more say in what their country is than a person born in America. So it is ridiculous to argue that somehow the North Korean people are responsible for their own fate. Where you are born and who your parents is a source of privilege. You don't choose that. You are born into it. There's really no two ways about it.

    Officers in the shootings of unarmed black men are rarely tried at all, and if they aren't they don't tend to be found guilty. It's a real problem in this country and speaks to how prevalent white privilege is here. As a white person, I get the advantage of feeling the cops are on my side. Not everyone gets to feel that way. That's privilege.

    As for Clark, absolutely, his superpowers are a privilege. Just like a person being able-bodies is a certain kind of privilege, being super-bodied is a privileged as well. Singers, dancers, and scientists usually work to develop their talents. Clark just has powers because specialness. What makes Clark such a wonderful character is he uses those powers to be kind. It's not about owing anybody (another word you used which is beside the point, like blame), it's about being a decent human being. He does it because it is the right thing to do, just like how using to advantages we are given to help make the world a better place is the right thing to do.
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  4. #169
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    People don't choose where they are born. A person born in North Korea has no more say in what their country is than a person born in America. So it is ridiculous to argue that somehow the North Korean people are responsible for their own fate. Where you are born and who your parents is a source of privilege. You don't choose that. You are born into it. There's really no two ways about it.

    Officers in the shootings of unarmed black men are rarely tried at all, and if they aren't they don't tend to be found guilty. It's a real problem in this country and speaks to how prevalent white privilege is here. As a white person, I get the advantage of feeling the cops are on my side. Not everyone gets to feel that way. That's privilege.

    As for Clark, absolutely, his superpowers are a privilege. Just like a person being able-bodies is a certain kind of privilege, being super-bodied is a privileged as well. Singers, dancers, and scientists usually work to develop their talents. Clark just has powers because specialness. What makes Clark such a wonderful character is he uses those powers to be kind. It's not about owing anybody (another word you used which is beside the point, like blame), it's about being a decent human being. He does it because it is the right thing to do, just like how using to advantages we are given to help make the world a better place is the right thing to do.
    All i meant them as a collective as a society has some responsibility in what they built . They can't control where they are born. But they do have a choice what kind of country they built to an extent.

    Look, i can't make a judgement on incidents. If there are numbers and statistics that back up your claim then i would say ok. Same goes to @jackalope89 the article as far as i could read provides and lists disadvantages of being a minority and incidents, not statistics . Otherwise, cops generally do have to report how many bullets they fire,as far as i am aware.As for not finding guilty, justice system is evidence oriented system . It isn't answer for perfect justice. All systems have flaws. A system that doesn't, has not been made i believe unfortunately . Especially, in the sociopolitical matters. As for the feeling of cops not on your side, that's seems more a societal problem not an institutional one. How is that going to prove that whites enjoy privilege? It's only proving, the other races are not being treated like they should be because society needs reform. Society get it not an individual. As long as an individual doesn't become part of the problem or perpetuates it himself intentionally . He is ok. He isn't privileged. If he does he is just shitty, he isn't privileged .It is the same answer for representation in media,stereo typing.. Etc. Some societal changes can't start with legislative might and many shouldn't. For instance what are you going to do to stop stereotypes? Through people in jail or collect fines. As said, it would be tyrannical totalitarianism.

    Again, then being human is privilege. We have advantages over other creatures. Do you think these talents came out of thin air? Can exist with out effort or time? Talent requires effort to hone and sustain,Without it. It basically wastes and withers away, it just remains potential . It exists in the first place cause those genes survived. There survival makes it clear that they paid their due. Now you would say if he inherited talent genes, then surely their sins will also be inherited. Nope! A person isn't a just a product of nature but also nurture. Everyone's karma counter starts at 0 and it is in their own hands. He is decent human being as long as he isn't actively trying to harm anyone. He doesn't need to go out and do the things he does. He does cause its his instinct(genetics/nature) which was nurtured by his surroundings.

    Now, i can get behind the whole grace concept that Christians have.i just don't think it's necessary for me to be just grateful for "privileges" , when i have the freedom to choose my fate and my outcome to a large extent. In case you haven't noticed, i am more of karma guy.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-22-2020 at 11:14 AM.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    All i meant them as a collective as a society has some responsibility in what they built . They can't control where they are born. But they do have a choice what kind of country they built to an extent.
    No, they don't. A North Korean born child has absolutely no control of that government. Seriously, what you're suggesting has no basis in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Look, i can't make a judgement on incidents. If there are numbers and statistics that back up your claim then i would say ok. Same goes to @jackalope89 the article as far as i could read provides and lists disadvantages of being a minority and incidents, not statistics . Otherwise, cops generally do have to report how many bullets they fire,as far as i am aware.As for not finding guilty, justice system is evidence oriented system . It isn't answer for perfect justice. All systems have flaws. A system that doesn't, has not been made i believe unfortunately . Especially, in the sociopolitical matters. As for the feeling of cops not on your side, that's seems more a societal problem not an institutional one. How is that going to prove that whites enjoy privilege? It's only proving, the other races are not being treated like they should be because society needs reform. Society get it not an individual. As long as an individual doesn't become part of the problem or perpetuates it himself intentionally . He is ok. He isn't privileged. If he does he is just shitty, he isn't privileged .It is the same answer for representation in media,stereo typing.. Etc. Some societal changes can't start with legislative might and many shouldn't. For instance what are you going to do to stop stereotypes? Through people in jail or collect fines. As said, it would be tyrannical totalitarianism.
    I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Institutions are part of societies. If a problem is societal, it is also quite likely to be institutional. And the cops are unquestionably an institution. And if you want statistics, you have google and are free to search for all the new stories and data you want on the subject. Jackalope and I aren't here to try and educate you. Besides, you seem so intent on proving that privilege doesn't exist that you're making ridiculous arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Again, then being human is privilege. We have advantages over other creatures. Do you think these talents came out of thin air? Can exist with out effort or time? Talent requires effort to hone and sustain,Without it. It basically wastes and withers away, it just remains potential . It exists in the first place cause those genes survived. There survival makes it clear that they paid their due. Now you would say if he inherited talent genes, then surely their sins will also be inherited. Nope! A person isn't a just a product of nature but also nurture. Everyone's karma counter starts at 0 and it is in their own hands. He is decent human being as long as he isn't actively trying to harm anyone. He doesn't need to go out and do the things he does. He does cause its his instinct(genetics/nature) which was nurtured by his surroundings.
    Case in point. Here, you're essentially arguing that we had some power over our own evolution, which not how the theory of evolution or natural selection actually work. People evolved over extended periods of time by being born with certain traits that allows them to better survive and thrive in their surroundings. Opposable thumbs for instance. That's not honing natural ability. That's literally getting lucky because of the way you were born. Natural advantages. Privilege. You want to talk about nurture? Again, that environment that you are born into is not something you choose. Some people have great loving parents. Some people don't. We don't get to choose our parents, where we're born, how much money our parents have, our skin color, our sex, or who we love. We get the cards we are dealt and we do the best we can with them, but we still only have the cards we are dealt. How good a hand we get? That's privilege.
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  6. #171
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    No, they don't. A North Korean born child has absolutely no control of that government. Seriously, what you're suggesting has no basis in reality.



    I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Institutions are part of societies. If a problem is societal, it is also quite likely to be institutional. And the cops are unquestionably an institution. And if you want statistics, you have google and are free to search for all the new stories and data you want on the subject. Jackalope and I aren't here to try and educate you. Besides, you seem so intent on proving that privilege doesn't exist that you're making ridiculous arguments.



    Case in point. Here, you're essentially arguing that we had some power over our own evolution, which not how the theory of evolution or natural selection actually work. People evolved over extended periods of time by being born with certain traits that allows them to better survive and thrive in their surroundings. Opposable thumbs for instance. That's not honing natural ability. That's literally getting lucky because of the way you were born. Natural advantages. Privilege. You want to talk about nurture? Again, that environment that you are born into is not something you choose. Some people have great loving parents. Some people don't. We don't get to choose our parents, where we're born, how much money our parents have, our skin color, our sex, or who we love. We get the cards we are dealt and we do the best we can with them, but we still only have the cards we are dealt. How good a hand we get? That's privilege.
    A child may not. But, he grows up doesn't he. And his parents does as well. I am gonna be really corny. Price of freedom is high. Them as a society are not willing to pay that. They like their lives. Which becomes choice. Dude, it has. How many walls have fallen down, how many collonies gained independence, how many dictators fell.This things always happen and is continuing to happen.

    Institutions are part of societies. Yes, but in democratic republics there are checks and balances so that societal democracies don't go tyrannical for eg like in Germany. Not making ridiculous arguments. If room full of guy get one glass of water. It couple of guy only get half. Then is the room full of guys who got full glass privileged or is the other guys not getting their due? I woukd say its the latter. Just give them more water and everything is going golden. Simplistic terms. Dude, i am not bent on anyting. You guys where free enough to link me to incidents and stuff. So i thought you might provide me with statistical evidence. If you don't that's fine. I will just look for it myself.

    No, we don't have to have power over evolution. Just our choices. Choice means actions(karma) . The genes who survived payed their due and earned the right to exist in us. Yeah! I know random mutation is also a factor. But, natural selection is the filtering mechanism. Which is my point. See, you are forgetting the opposible thumb attributes itself needed to survive this long. Natural selection didn't wipe it out.the opposible thumb itself didn't stay the same throughout generation. Look at the hands of chimpanzees, our cousins . It got better and better suit our needs or environment . It is honing a natural ability. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this tool right now. Whales in generations split and went back to the sea. Have you heard bajau ethnic group? They can hold their breath for thirteen minutes. Any mutation requires to pass natural selection.Natural selection requires attibute be useful for survival . The fact that the thumb did, it paid its due.

    Environment might not be. But, you have a choice. there is also nature which balances that out which is designed to survive, not die. Btw this nature or law the same for all. Survival is the goal for all. Natural selection sees to it that you have the fundamental requirements to survive in the environment you are in. Because it screens out those that aren't useful in time(in generations) . A Child wouldn't have opposible thumbs if the genes hadn't survived the test. It isn't just luck or privilege as you call it. Otherwise, people screaming "god's perfect design" nonsense wouldn't feel it that way(it isn't. Natural selection gives it that appearance. It isn't perfect) . We have things we can use because these things honed and perfected for our environment, for us to do so further. If it is of no use and it isn't honed.Then the genes will seize to be. It's as simple as that.,
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-23-2020 at 10:26 PM.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    A child may not. But, he grows up doesn't he. And his parents does as well. I am gonna be really corny. Price of freedom is high. Them as a society are not willing to pay that. They like their lives. Which becomes choice. Dude, it has. How many walls have fallen down, how many collonies gained independence, how many dictators fell.This things always happen and is continuing to happen.
    Spoken like someone who has privilege. It's easy to question why people don't put their lives on the line when it's not your life at stake. Furthermore, in North Korea, they crack down on dissidents pretty quickly and harshly. The government makes sure they any rebellion doesn't come to pass. Then, there is the lack of education and heavy propaganda. The people are seriously oppressed and that's as not easy to get around as your making it seem.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Institutions are part of societies. Yes, but in democratic republics there are checks and balances so that societal democracies don't go tyrannical for eg like in Germany. Not making ridiculous arguments. If room full of guy get one glass of water. It couple of guy only get half. Then is the room full of guys who got full glass privileged or is the other guys not getting their due? I woukd say its the latter. Just give them more water and everything is going golden. Simplistic terms. Dude, i am not bent on anyting. You guys where free enough to link me to incidents and stuff. So i thought you might provide me with statistical evidence. If you don't that's fine. I will just look for it myself.
    You can't change a person's race or sexuality. It's not a the level glass of water. That comparison is just incorrect. It's nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No, we don't have to have power over evolution. Just our choices. Choice means actions(karma) . The genes who survived payed their due and earned the right to exist in us. Yeah! I know random mutation is also a factor. But, natural selection is the filtering mechanism. Which is my point. See, you are forgetting the opposible thumb attributes itself needed to survive this long. Natural selection didn't wipe it out.the opposible thumb itself didn't stay the same throughout generation. Look at the hands of chimpanzees, our cousins . It got better and better suit our needs or environment . It is honing a natural ability. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this tool right now. Whales in generations split and went back to the sea. Have you heard bajau ethnic group? They can hold their breath for thirteen minutes. Any mutation requires to pass natural selection.Natural selection requires attibute be useful for survival . The fact that the thumb did, it paid its due.
    But that's not about choice. No one chose to have an opposable thumb. It was an advantage that worked out. It's have nothing to do with paying due's and applying that concept to a topic that includes issues like racial prejudice is extremely dangerous. Black people don't face prejudice because they haven't paid their dues. They face it because other people are myopic and short-sighted, and their privilege allows them to move through the world not even thinking about the daily crap racial minorities get put through.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Environment might not be. But, you have a choice. there is also nature which balances that out which is designed to survive, not die. Btw this nature or law the same for all. Survival is the goal for all. Natural selection sees to it that you have the fundamental requirements to survive in the environment you are in. Because it screens out those that aren't useful in time(in generations) . A Child wouldn't have opposible thumbs if the genes hadn't survived the test. It isn't just luck or privilege as you call it. Otherwise, people screaming "god's perfect design" nonsense wouldn't feel it that way(it isn't. Natural selection gives it that appearance. It isn't perfect) . We have things we can use because these things honed and perfected for our environment, for us to do so further. If it is of no use and it isn't honed.Then the genes will seize to be. It's as simple as that.,
    Again, no one chose to have the biological advantages you're talking about. No one gets to say who they are going to be when they are born. People have choices, but those choices are often limited by certain factors. I'm bi. That's not a choice. That's who I am. In certain states in the USA, I could get fired just for my sexuality being what it is. Straight people have the privilege of not having to think about whether who they date is going to get them fired. That's privilege. It's as simple as that. Yet you are going out of your way to try to confuse the issue, because you don't want to accept that privilege might be more expansive then just the super rich living in their ivory tower. Privilege is a thing. You're not going to argue you're way out of it. Accept it or deny it, that's up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it exists.
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  8. #173
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Spoken like someone who has privilege. It's easy to question why people don't put their lives on the line when it's not your life at stake. Furthermore, in North Korea, they crack down on dissidents pretty quickly and harshly. The government makes sure they any rebellion doesn't come to pass. Then, there is the lack of education and heavy propaganda. The people are seriously oppressed and that's as not easy to get around as your making it seem.



    You can't change a person's race or sexuality. It's not a the level glass of water. That comparison is just incorrect. It's nonsense.



    But that's not about choice. No one chose to have an opposable thumb. It was an advantage that worked out. It's have nothing to do with paying due's and applying that concept to a topic that includes issues like racial prejudice is extremely dangerous. Black people don't face prejudice because they haven't paid their dues. They face it because other people are myopic and short-sighted, and their privilege allows them to move through the world not even thinking about the daily crap racial minorities get put through.



    Again, no one chose to have the biological advantages you're talking about. No one gets to say who they are going to be when they are born. People have choices, but those choices are often limited by certain factors. I'm bi. That's not a choice. That's who I am. In certain states in the USA, I could get fired just for my sexuality being what it is. Straight people have the privilege of not having to think about whether who they date is going to get them fired. That's privilege. It's as simple as that. Yet you are going out of your way to try to confuse the issue, because you don't want to accept that privilege might be more expansive then just the super rich living in their ivory tower. Privilege is a thing. You're not going to argue you're way out of it. Accept it or deny it, that's up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that it exists.
    Dude, you are white guy. If we are talking me being privilege according to the hierarchy you were talking about. I would maybe at the bottom. Well,mate from personal experience and things i have read freedom is hard to come by. And even harder to sustain. It isn't me passing judgement on them. It is me saying, your actions is your choice. Don't get offended by that. It is completely impersonal. They do i know. I am guy who believes oppression is a choice. Its ingrained in my very blood. If people themselves don't want it. Then it's sadly and unfortunately their choice.

    Why would we want to? It isn't nonsense. If people aren't getting equal opportunities or seen as with prejudice. Then giving them that and removing prejudice is the requirement. The are all getting necessary treatment and opportunities . It's just some people that don't. So give them that.We are golden.

    Nope!because it worked, It became an advantage that was screened, protected and perfected in generation . I am not social darwinist or anything. I didn't mean to come of like. If i did,all i am saying is that a cat can't be blamed for having better claws than me. I can't blame a bird for flying. As you said in later paragraph, it's who they are. They aren't privileged. Their genes had to fight to give that ability. If they themselves don't they would lost in generations. Whales don't have legs. Do they? And when did i say black people haven't paid their due or something like that? I never did. Once, again if others are given their due they aren't privileged. Since, they are only getting their worth not more. If black people aren't, that doesn’t mean the others are privileged. It only means, black need to given their due by the society for its own prosperity . Not black people need give their due.

    They don't need to. No, they don't. But they can choose what their future will be. Their choices can effect generations. You maybe bi.You are only bi because those genes fought to be here and became part of who you are. If it didn't survive, you would be straight like most. Your genes paid their due to survive this long. That kinda discrimination is bad. But, there is a civil rights act if i am not mistaken. Besides, my point is simple.If you are denied or discrimnated for your gender in your work place.Then, does that mean others are privileged or does it mean you aren't given your worth? I mean, others are only getting their due (sort of). What is yours or anybody's objective in society should be? To give everyone their due rights, not more or less. Not to take the due rights of others.right?So,how does others count as privileged?

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Back to topic, sheesh! That jon and conner meeting tease was underwhelming. Bendis doesn't treat the character as a standalone. It's depressing. I can see what happened to new52 superman and wally west happening again.

  10. #175
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    That's disappointing to hear. Part of me was still kinda excited about those two meeting, even with Jon's current....circumstance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    That's disappointing to hear. Part of me was still kinda excited about those two meeting, even with Jon's current....circumstance
    Meh. All my excitement for it went out the window the moment Jon came back aged up.

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    Yeah, I really wanted to see Jon and Conner meet during Tomasi's run, but everything Bendis has done with both characters makes this a serious Monkey's Paw situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Dude, you are white guy. If we are talking me being privilege according to the hierarchy you were talking about. I would maybe at the bottom. Well,mate from personal experience and things i have read freedom is hard to come by. And even harder to sustain. It isn't me passing judgement on them. It is me saying, your actions is your choice. Don't get offended by that. It is completely impersonal. They do i know. I am guy who believes oppression is a choice. Its ingrained in my very blood. If people themselves don't want it. Then it's sadly and unfortunately their choice.
    Well, that's a very naive and incorrect worldview. People don't choose to be oppressed. They don't. Historically, the suggestion that they do is really used to justify oppression.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why would we want to? It isn't nonsense. If people aren't getting equal opportunities or seen as with prejudice. Then giving them that and removing prejudice is the requirement. The are all getting necessary treatment and opportunities . It's just some people that don't. So give them that.We are golden.
    This is an extreme oversimplification and not an accurate reflection of the current world. People don't acknowledge privilege easily, so the idea that they are going to give it up so that all people can have what they need is far-fetched.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nope!because it worked, It became an advantage that was screened, protected and perfected in generation . I am not social darwinist or anything. I didn't mean to come of like. If i did,all i am saying is that a cat can't be blamed for having better claws than me. I can't blame a bird for flying. As you said in later paragraph, it's who they are. They aren't privileged. Their genes had to fight to give that ability. If they themselves don't they would lost in generations. Whales don't have legs. Do they? And when did i say black people haven't paid their due or something like that? I never did. Once, again if others are given their due they aren't privileged. Since, they are only getting their worth not more. If black people aren't, that doesn’t mean the others are privileged. It only means, black need to given their due by the society for its own prosperity . Not black people need give their due.
    Again, you bring up blame. Blame isn't at issue here. Acknowledging privilege isn't about blame. It's about being aware of certain advantages certain groups of people are gifted with, certain aspects of life groups of people are able to remain blissfully ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    They don't need to. No, they don't. But they can choose what their future will be. Their choices can effect generations. You maybe bi.You are only bi because those genes fought to be here and became part of who you are. If it didn't survive, you would be straight like most. Your genes paid their due to survive this long. That kinda discrimination is bad. But, there is a civil rights act if i am not mistaken. Besides, my point is simple.If you are denied or discrimnated for your gender in your work place.Then, does that mean others are privileged or does it mean you aren't given your worth? I mean, others are only getting their due (sort of). What is yours or anybody's objective in society should be? To give everyone their due rights, not more or less. Not to take the due rights of others.right?So,how does others count as privileged?
    First off, the US Civil Rights Act was struck down years ago.

    Second, scientists don't really understand homosexuality or bisexuality and there is no conclusive proof it is genetic, so please don't speak as if you have some expertise on how bisexuality works genetically.

    Third, a privilege straight people is that they don't have to worry about whether they could be fired for their sexuality. They don't have to deal with the psychological trauma of hiding who they are because they might be discriminated against for something as benign as who they love. In fact, they don't have to even realize this is a problem for LGBTQ+ people if they don't want to. That is a privilege that exists. That is reality. So yes, it means others are privileged. That doesn't mean LGBTQ+ people aren't also treated unfairly, but unless we acknowledge and strive to overcome privilege like that, there will be a lack of empathy and understanding between different groups of people.
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  13. #178
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Yeah, I really wanted to see Jon and Conner meet during Tomasi's run, but everything Bendis has done with both characters makes this a serious Monkey's Paw situation.



    Well, that's a very naive and incorrect worldview. People don't choose to be oppressed. They don't. Historically, the suggestion that they do is really used to justify oppression.



    This is an extreme oversimplification and not an accurate reflection of the current world. People don't acknowledge privilege easily, so the idea that they are going to give it up so that all people can have what they need is far-fetched.



    Again, you bring up blame. Blame isn't at issue here. Acknowledging privilege isn't about blame. It's about being aware of certain advantages certain groups of people are gifted with, certain aspects of life groups of people are able to remain blissfully ignorant.



    First off, the US Civil Rights Act was struck down years ago.

    Second, scientists don't really understand homosexuality or bisexuality and there is no conclusive proof it is genetic, so please don't speak as if you have some expertise on how bisexuality works genetically.

    Third, a privilege straight people is that they don't have to worry about whether they could be fired for their sexuality. They don't have to deal with the psychological trauma of hiding who they are because they might be discriminated against for something as benign as who they love. In fact, they don't have to even realize this is a problem for LGBTQ+ people if they don't want to. That is a privilege that exists. That is reality. So yes, it means others are privileged. That doesn't mean LGBTQ+ people aren't also treated unfairly, but unless we acknowledge and strive to overcome privilege like that, there will be a lack of empathy and understanding between different groups of people.
    It isn't simplicitic. People just choose to overcomplicate things. They do. How do you think the british conquered most of the world? Many of the locals helped them. They even had them in their military.

    I don't particularly know if it's genetic. I heard dawkins talk about it once, though. He sounded pretty convinced and was speaking in genetic terms. Oh! Didn't know that. There must be other equivalents. If there isn't something, you are right. The community would need protective and preventive measures by the state till the society reforms .

    Once again, privilege requires others to enjoy something they shouldn't. I don't believe normal people do. I think many don't have the rights they should.because we aren't in a utopian society and i doubt we will ever make one. I Didn't argue that there isn't prejudices against LGBTQ+ community nor did i say they don't have struggles. Have i? True enough, many including myself can't understand the plite of people different than myself and have gone through different experiences . But, that isn't a factor for me to understand something simple like equality of opportunity is paramount. Any societal attitude that takes away that from individuals of any community has to be confronted and reformed. That preventive and protective measures have to be taken till then to ensure that they are treated equally.It is the state's duty to ensure that fundamental principle be upheld.

    Having said that, i don't understand the notion of white straight people having to give up something.They don't have your share of rights. They have the rights every individual should get on the planet. Nothing more or less.My glass of water analogy, the people in the room with same amount of water didn't have or take the water for people that didn't get the same amount . They got what they owed, Others simply didn't. Its the person's job who fills the glasses to give them water they rightfully owe. Making others give up what is they are rightfully owed to fill up others would be tyranny. Especially, when there is plenty of water to go around. I don't have to give up my rights to give you yours. As for acknowledgement, well acknowledging i get what equal treatment i am owed or deserved and you don't can help awareness. I can agree to that. But, i don't think or believe it can be called privilege. It's is gross unfairness that can even be called injustice by a flawed system . But at the end of the day. Freedom is your right as much as mine and vice versa is equally true.

  14. #179
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    41d0f8dddb5da688bb7dcf929bb3e9790c634637_00.jpg

    The beginning of Jon Kent's journey as a hero in training from Superman #4. I love that Lois is the one who inspires Jon to be the best of both worlds.
    Last edited by Lvenger; 02-29-2020 at 04:10 PM.

  15. #180
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Google is really becoming a pain to post fanart from, I'll say that. And they changed up the image view format too.

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