Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[KangMiRae]

Eh, that's only one variant of feminism, plenty of others celebrate Karen being comfortable with her sexuality and being willing to work with what Rao gave her.

Actually, according to a sociological study of gender class I took last semester (I needed electives) the 70's and 80's eras of feminism put a lot of emphasis on being sexually free, to the point where many women felt they had to act that way or they'd be doing a disservice to the cause.



Ha! So are we calling her a forward leaning centrist?

I actually have no idea what her politics would be....I don't think I've ever seen anything that goes deeper than vague generalities.

She’s a businesswoman, right? I think she’d be fiscally conservative, while being more progressive on humanitarian and social laws.

[Ascended]

She’s a businesswoman, right? I think she’d be fiscally conservative, while being more progressive on humanitarian and social laws.

Quite possibly, though I feel like that's how everyone describes any character who's in business (myself included ).

I suppose at this point trying to figure out what party she belongs to is pointless; the two parties don't really stand for anything any more except opposition to each other.

[Robanker]

Ollie was a business man too and you can't get much more radically liberal than he is in the DCU. Karen would probably run a non-profit company because I just don't know what she would even do with profit outside donate it to some cause, likely scholarships for young girls, outreach programs to battered women or so on given her roots in feminism. She would definitely pay her employees a living wage with benefits, but Starrware likely wasn't about money. I'd argue she would be left leaning based on my reading, but to each their own interpretation. Really, Ascended hit the nail on the head in that nothing's wrong with her and most complaints come from people who were looking for something to dismiss about her, much as Aquaman was always perceived as lame because it's an easy thing to hang on.

The redundant Supergirl thing I think only hurts her from a brand perspective the same way having multiple Flashes or Batmen in that while the writing may be solid, a lot of higher up individuals seem to think that dilutes the brand so they harvest the other characters to build up their chosen incarnation (see new Barry). That kind of happened already in DC Superhero Girls (not a knock against it, just an observation).

Anyone who takes a minute to read PG sees her only real problem is she's a team character who hasn't had much of her own corner established. Black Canary is in a similar boat but gets to share a book with GA which makes her appear more often, but she rarely gets solo outings and has no real villains or cast of her own to speak of (Sin is gone and her mom is JSA).

PG is easily one of DC's hidden gems.

[achilles]

Ollie was a business man too and you can't get much more radically liberal than he is in the DCU. Karen would probably run a non-profit company because I just don't know what she would even do with profit outside donate it to some cause, likely scholarships for young girls, outreach programs to battered women or so on given her roots in feminism. She would definitely pay her employees a living wage with benefits, but Starrware likely wasn't about money. I'd argue she would be left leaning based on my reading, but to each their own interpretation. Really, Ascended hit the nail on the head in that nothing's wrong with her and most complaints come from people who were looking for something to dismiss about her, much as Aquaman was always perceived as lame because it's an easy thing to hang on.

The redundant Supergirl thing I think only hurts her from a brand perspective the same way having multiple Flashes or Batmen in that while the writing may be solid, a lot of higher up individuals seem to think that dilutes the brand so they harvest the other characters to build up their chosen incarnation (see new Barry). That kind of happened already in DC Superhero Girls (not a knock against it, just an observation).

Anyone who takes a minute to read PG sees her only real problem is she's a team character who hasn't had much of her own corner established. Black Canary is in a similar boat but gets to share a book with GA which makes her appear more often, but she rarely gets solo outings and has no real villains or cast of her own to speak of (Sin is gone and her mom is JSA).

PG is easily one of DC's hidden gems.

Spot on IMO. I would kind of like pairing PG with WW in a two person title, as an equal partner in sci-fi/fantasy stories, so each could play to their own strengths some times, and have to deal with their weaknesses/depend on the other the rest of the time. It would be better than being Harley Quinn's sometime sidekick in basically only Harley style stories.

And probably to solve her problem with DC and WB higher-ups, someone needs to change PG's exact origin away from being Superman's cousin Kara Zor-L so she's not just an alternate universe Supergirl----that part the brass at DC really seems to have a problem with it; probably why Power Girl has never been in live action TV or movies and only once in any animated format in any real sense. To be clear, DC can't change her origin from Kryptonian and related to Superman...but on that last part, they have some wiggle room. I don't think most people care if she's Kal-L's cousin, or his aunt, his previously undisclosed older sister trapped in a stasis field for decades, or some timelost Kryptonian explorer...or in some way connected to Krypton's gods, or hundreds of other possible stories that keep the essence of what makes her fun, while finally being sufficiently different from Supergirl to make DC and WB stop looking down on the character.

[Ascended]

Ollie was a business man too and you can't get much more radically liberal than he is in the DCU.

You're not wrong, but come on, Ollie's an outlier. An exception to the rule. Nobody's as political, from any party, as Ollie. Oh, and if I remember right, didn't he become a loudmouth liberal *after* losing his money?

I agree about the branding too. It's not really a barrier, but some suits up above probably think it is. But they're gonna think that no matter what. When Karen wasn't Kryptonian at all during post-Crisis, was she any better off? No. The Supergirl thing is an issue because short sighted corporate people will see redundancy. I mean, the only thing redundant about Karen is the first part of her origin. She doesn't look, talk, fight, or act the same. She's not the same age, doesn't have anything close to the same costume. People who don't already know Karen would have no idea she's got anything to do with the Supers at all. Flying brick powerset? Just like half the heroes at DC. Blonde white girl? Get in line.

And given how much people love alternate realities, this isnt something you downplay it's something you lean into. It's not about Karen having the same origin as Supergirl, it's Karen being a survivor of multiversal doom. Very popular shows like Fringe have been built on the multiverse journey archetype; Karen's a gold mine in potential and a doorway into a part of DC that is always overlooked. But she gets ignored because some suit who knows nothing about the fiction thinks she's redundant.

[Robanker]

You're not wrong, but come on, Ollie's an outlier. An exception to the rule. Nobody's as political, from any party, as Ollie. Oh, and if I remember right, didn't he become a loudmouth liberal *after* losing his money?

I agree about the branding too. It's not really a barrier, but some suits up above probably think it is. But they're gonna think that no matter what. When Karen wasn't Kryptonian at all during post-Crisis, was she any better off? No. The Supergirl thing is an issue because short sighted corporate people will see redundancy. I mean, the only thing redundant about Karen is the first part of her origin. She doesn't look, talk, fight, or act the same. She's not the same age, doesn't have anything close to the same costume. People who don't already know Karen would have no idea she's got anything to do with the Supers at all. Flying brick powerset? Just like half the heroes at DC. Blonde white girl? Get in line.

And given how much people love alternate realities, this isnt something you downplay it's something you lean into. It's not about Karen having the same origin as Supergirl, it's Karen being a survivor of multiversal doom. Very popular shows like Fringe have been built on the multiverse journey archetype; Karen's a gold mine in potential and a doorway into a part of DC that is always overlooked. But she gets ignored because some suit who knows nothing about the fiction thinks she's redundant.

Sure, Ollie certainly is an outlier, but how many DC One Percenters are conveyed as fiscally conservative? Their money only comes up to fund their wars on crime or to donate to some charity. They're all pretty free with it or they're villains. It's pretty rare to see any of them consolidate their wealth and compound it with good investments. We just assume they're making the big bucks ethically (probably selling their alter ego's merch) and using that money responsibly and finding ways to help others using it.

Bruce absolutely should be more conservative with his money but we're constantly told about how he hires people with no qualifications to get them off the streets, countless foundations and public works he finances and some new school, hospital or some such he's opening. All he does is spend his money, and in my reading he's probably the sternest, most calculating business man on the side of the angels at DC. I don't see how Karen would be more uptight than he is given she chooses to live in a cozy apartment instead of high-rise and rarely seems to care about material possessions or status. She's been pretty down-to-Earth for a couple decades now and she gave away her company in JSA #39 I think only to get it back in her solo where she seemed more interested in providing a good product and building her staff.

Yeah, part of what I love about Karen is that she's essentially Clark/Kara's problems dialed to eleven. She's not the last daughter of a doomed planet, but a doomed universe-- and she lost a second planet as Kara lost one. It's kind of surprising how often writers and fans tend to overlook that because they're too busy tripping over themselves.

[achilles]

You're not wrong, but come on, Ollie's an outlier. An exception to the rule. Nobody's as political, from any party, as Ollie. Oh, and if I remember right, didn't he become a loudmouth liberal *after* losing his money?

I agree about the branding too. It's not really a barrier, but some suits up above probably think it is. But they're gonna think that no matter what. When Karen wasn't Kryptonian at all during post-Crisis, was she any better off? No. The Supergirl thing is an issue because short sighted corporate people will see redundancy. I mean, the only thing redundant about Karen is the first part of her origin. She doesn't look, talk, fight, or act the same. She's not the same age, doesn't have anything close to the same costume. People who don't already know Karen would have no idea she's got anything to do with the Supers at all. Flying brick powerset? Just like half the heroes at DC. Blonde white girl? Get in line.

And given how much people love alternate realities, this isnt something you downplay it's something you lean into. It's not about Karen having the same origin as Supergirl, it's Karen being a survivor of multiversal doom. Very popular shows like Fringe have been built on the multiverse journey archetype; Karen's a gold mine in potential and a doorway into a part of DC that is always overlooked. But she gets ignored because some suit who knows nothing about the fiction thinks she's redundant.

Yes, exactly. It's sad that she appears to generate that feeling in the suits, since her fans and fans in general likely have few problems with it for the reasons you said. But it does appear they do have a problem with it, and the fix could involve relatively minor changes to her Kryptonian origin and backstory....but also by giving her a clear mission that's different from what Superman and Supergirl do. And if the MUST brand her, might I suggest giving her a blue "S" as her distinguishing mark, in much the same way that second sons of nobility in the middle ages often used variants or different color family sigils rather than the main one the heir would wear.

[achilles]

Sure, Ollie certainly is an outlier, but how many DC One Percenters are conveyed as fiscally conservative? Their money only comes up to fund their wars on crime or to donate to some charity. They're all pretty free with it or they're villains. It's pretty rare to see any of them consolidate their wealth and compound it with good investments. We just assume they're making the big bucks ethically (probably selling their alter ego's merch) and using that money responsibly and finding ways to help others using it.

Bruce absolutely should be more conservative with his money but we're constantly told about how he hires people with no qualifications to get them off the streets, countless foundations and public works he finances and some new school, hospital or some such he's opening. All he does is spend his money, and in my reading he's probably the sternest, most calculating business man on the side of the angels at DC. I don't see how Karen would be more uptight than he is given she chooses to live in a cozy apartment instead of high-rise and rarely seems to care about material possessions or status. She's been pretty down-to-Earth for a couple decades now and she gave away her company in JSA #39 I think only to get it back in her solo where she seemed more interested in providing a good product and building her staff.

Yeah, part of what I love about Karen is that she's essentially Clark/Kara's problems dialed to eleven. She's not the last daughter of a doomed planet, but a doomed universe-- and she lost a second planet as Kara lost one. It's kind of surprising how often writers and fans tend to overlook that because they're too busy tripping over themselves.

To put that issue to rest, Karen was shown working with Bruce on social issues in her own series. There, she seemed old school Democrat to me, while in other comics, she seemed rather more conservative; recalling that "election" thing in the mid 2000s, where she went with the "conservative" candidate for President as did Hawkman, for the same reason, "he'll keep us safe". So, like all other issues in the genre, it really just depends on who is writing her, and what they want to do with the character. As Karen Starr, tech mogul, (and news mogul, she buys a CNN analogue in her own series), she seemed interested in environmentally conscious products and arranging aid to those who need it---in her own series.

[Ascended]

I suspect that Karen's politics likely don't really conform to anything we have. Not only is she from a different Krypton, but from a different earth, both of which certainly have different views. So I'd guess Karen's neither a democrat or a republican, but probably agrees with both sides on different issues and likely disagrees with both on others.

I do imagine she's really big on national security (she's lost two worlds and a universe, she's big on anti-terror policy) and is very pro-environment (for the same reasons). As a businesswoman, and more specifically one who runs a large corporation, she likely leans a little right on business related issues....except CSR, which she'd dive into with both feet (though every rich hero gives at least lip service to such views so Karen's not terribly original here).

[Robanker]

I can see Karen being strong on national security given what she's lost, yeah, and she's always been supportive of the boys in blue if I recall. To be fair, most clean cops in the DCU get respect from the cape community, but even so.

I generally see her as center-left.

[juan678]

Powergirl in Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey #1 preview In Shops: Feb 12, 2020

[Robanker]

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/d...r-rated-dreams

For a minute there I really thought Harley wasn't going to make a pass at PG, but of course she did. Really nice to see Karen again and, for what it's worth, this is about the only way I can see Harley and PG being friends. They've had enough adventures together that she does seem to get the former a bit, but the clear exasperation shows it's not a particularly deep friendship. It's more that she tolerates Harley if only because Karen can tell she is better outside of the Joker's influence and perhaps she's trying in her own way.

Do I like it? Frankly, still no, but I imagine Karen does consider she's a victim who is trying to improve-- and it's a comedy series, so there's that. Them being best buds would irk me even as a joke, but PG's always just kind of tolerated Harley because the former's just an inherently good person who has mellowed out in recent years.

[superduperman]

Do we know if this is the "refugee from Earth 2" version of PG? We know that E-2 is back but does she? And is it the same E-2 she came from?

[Ascended]

Do I like it? Frankly, still no, but I imagine Karen does consider she's a victim who is trying to improve-- and it's a comedy series, so there's that. Them being best buds would irk me even as a joke, but PG's always just kind of tolerated Harley because the former's just an inherently good person who has mellowed out in recent years.

That's how I see it too. Harley's book is supposed to be after her time in the Squad, so her federal crimes have been forgiven (though she still has active warrants in several states) and she's definitely not a hero, but she isn't murdering innocent people anymore. I could see Karen giving her the benefit of the doubt and trying to encourage Harls to be a better person. Not that Harley is that good a person now, but compared to what she did with Joker......

[achilles]

Do we know if this is the "refugee from Earth 2" version of PG? We know that E-2 is back but does she? And is it the same E-2 she came from?

AFAIK, we know nothing at all about the Power Girl who is appearing evidently without dialogue in certain titles. Sans the Harley stuff which I can't figure out. My best guess is that Earth-2 is where the JSA wound up...along with PG, after Flashpoint, with...whichever mini rewrote all that, Doomsday Clock IIRC. I'm not quite clear on non-Earth 2 characters like Stargirl...who seems to have been retconned as an Earth 2 native on TV for her streaming/CW series. Basically, it seems to me they punted the old Earth 2 JSA sans the ones who didn't make it in COIE, back to Earth 2, and maybe added some of the non-Earth 2 JSAers like Stargirl for the comics here. That's my guess anyway. And IMO, we shouldn't have to guess. They should have brought the JSA back in something devoted to doing just that, which would have explained everything.