Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[sifighter]

If they're all on the same earth, but PG is Kara Zor-El and in the new timeline Kara is Supergirl of Dick and Babs generation, that's why I ask how it will work. She'll just grow up to be Power Girl and there's no more Supergirl Kara after that?

I mean there are a lot of characters who are related to alternate earths who live here now that we are just going to have to live with thanks to Crisis on Infinite Earths, and not just surviving characters but also their children like the Ray or Damage or Starman(jack knight). It just works is pretty much how you have to deal with it.

Also I got to be honest i always felt that thanks to Crisis and Infinity Inc that Powergirl was more in Dick's generation of heroes, she is more in his age group because she has got to be what mid to late 20's, possibly early 30's. I'm just saying she was around when Dick in New Teen titans became Nightwing. If anything Kara Supegirl is in Tim's generation from when she showed up and who's age she is closer to.

[king81992]

Yeah, I just found out the difference between Linda Danvers and Linda Lee Danvers. Man, that was confusing.

I'm okay with that, and hey, if Kara keeps being PG, the Supergirl can go to Tanya Spears. Supergirl is a high profile identity and if they wanna do diversity that will be the right way to do it.

I'd prefer Cir El to be brought back and inherit the mantle.

[achilles]

Yeah, I just found out the difference between Linda Danvers and Linda Lee Danvers. Man, that was confusing.

I'm okay with that, and hey, if Kara keeps being PG, the Supergirl can go to Tanya Spears. Supergirl is a high profile identity and if they wanna do diversity that will be the right way to do it.

Do away with the current Supergirl to put in a diversity hire? Sure, why not. As long as Kara/Karen....I hate to say it, but they might want to lose the Karen part given the present negative connotations, but as long as Kara remains Power Girl, sure I'm okay with trading off Tanya Spears as the new Supergirl. Won't happen though. I think Supergirl is untouchable at DB/WB in a way PG most definitely isn't. Plus...there's no getting around it; Tanya Spears is a minor Teen Titans style character at best, not someone who can hold a title of her own, even if that title was called Supergirl. Besides the Mary Sue stuff, it seemed to me that almost no thought at all was put into creating her, so there's nothing there to hang any sort of hook on. Whereas classic PG is a very well developed character with definite personality traits.

[Ascended]

The only problem with that is...that version of PG was shown to need quite a bit of training to even throw a big rock and hit a target. And I can't recall a single time that any version of PG has exhibited THAT sort of control...especially during an activity that isn't exactly known for...control...

Which just tells us that the New52 was poorly written.

Also I got to be honest i always felt that thanks to Crisis and Infinity Inc that Powergirl was more in Dick's generation of heroes, she is more in his age group because she has got to be what mid to late 20's, possibly early 30's. I'm just saying she was around when Dick in New Teen titans became Nightwing. If anything Kara Supegirl is in Tim's generation from when she showed up and who's age she is closer to.

I'm pretty sure Karen is a couple years older than Dick, right around the same age as Babs, and Kara (Supergirl) is likewise a little bit older than Tim but still within that same age bracket.

Supergirl is most definitely younger than Dick, her series pre-52 even had her have a crush on Nightwing that was treated like a student having a crush on their teacher.

[king81992]

Do away with the current Supergirl to put in a diversity hire? Sure, why not. As long as Kara/Karen....I hate to say it, but they might want to lose the Karen part given the present negative connotations, but as long as Kara remains Power Girl, sure I'm okay with trading off Tanya Spears as the new Supergirl. Won't happen though. I think Supergirl is untouchable at DB/WB in a way PG most definitely isn't. Plus...there's no getting around it; Tanya Spears is a minor Teen Titans style character at best, not someone who can hold a title of her own, even if that title was called Supergirl. Besides the Mary Sue stuff, it seemed to me that almost no thought at all was put into creating her, so there's nothing there to hang any sort of hook on. Whereas classic PG is a very well developed character with definite personality traits.

How is Tanya a Mary Sue? For all her intelligence, she got manipulated by Deathstroke.

[achilles]

How is Tanya a Mary Sue? For all her intelligence, she got manipulated by Deathstroke.

Really wouldn't know about what happened there, but in her creation, she was just another generic character who is shown first being pretty good at a lot of things, with no real reason for her to be. And that's before nuPG gives her powers.

[achilles]

Which just tells us that the New52 was poorly written.



I'm pretty sure Karen is a couple years older than Dick, right around the same age as Babs, and Kara (Supergirl) is likewise a little bit older than Tim but still within that same age bracket.

Supergirl is most definitely younger than Dick, her series pre-52 even had her have a crush on Nightwing that was treated like a student having a crush on their teacher.

Can't argue the nu52 stuff was badly written, puzzling to me since that part of it was written by one of her early writers, Paul Levitz. Weird how he lost the ability to write a good version of both PG, and his own creation, Helena Wayne. I wonder what happened. I wasn't surprised to see Levitz get his created by credit for Huntress in that series, but it was a bit disappointing to not see the same for Gerry Conway, Wally Wood, and Ric Estrada for Power Girl. I get why Levitz got his, but it wouldn't have killed DC to simply give a little credit for those others.

Personally, I view Karen as a few years older than Supergirl. Supergirl...I view as eternally around 17 or 18, maybe 19, which to me puts Karen at around 22-24. Dick I view as about 28-29, and thus a few years older than Karen. Karen is certainly "younger" than Diana, whatever that means, and younger than Dinah too.

[Robanker]

I've always seen Dick at 25-27 in present day and Karen 28-30. For what it's worth, Bruce and Clark are about 38 as I've thought of them.

[Agent Z]

Do away with the current Supergirl to put in a diversity hire? Sure, why not. As long as Kara/Karen....I hate to say it, but they might want to lose the Karen part given the present negative connotations, but as long as Kara remains Power Girl, sure I'm okay with trading off Tanya Spears as the new Supergirl. Won't happen though. I think Supergirl is untouchable at DB/WB in a way PG most definitely isn't. Plus...there's no getting around it; Tanya Spears is a minor Teen Titans style character at best, not someone who can hold a title of her own, even if that title was called Supergirl. Besides the Mary Sue stuff, it seemed to me that almost no thought at all was put into creating her, so there's nothing there to hang any sort of hook on. Whereas classic PG is a very well developed character with definite personality traits.

Nightwing is still going by Dick Grayson despite what that word means so I don't Karen has to lose her name. Especially when Kara will never lose hers.

[achilles]

Nightwing is still going by Dick Grayson despite what that word means so I don't Karen has to lose her name. Especially when Kara will never lose hers.

Well, Karen sort is still sort of leasing her name to Tanya Spears, so they need to correct that. But yeah, Kara will be SG probably forever.

[Robanker]

Yeah, I actually like the name Karen and PG owns it. She doesn't need to change her name just because it's also a meme for entitled women who want to speak to the manager.

It's her name, for good or ill. PG rules. She doesn't need to change any more than Dick Grayson does.

[achilles]

Yeah, I actually like the name Karen and PG owns it. She doesn't need to change her name just because it's also a meme for entitled women who want to speak to the manager.

It's her name, for good or ill. PG rules. She doesn't need to change any more than Dick Grayson does.

Dick Grayson? Oh, you mean Ric...

And yeah, Karen Steele can keep her name...

And as I pointed out elsewhere, someone teach the lady how to get out of a full nelson---it's her Kryptonite---how all the heroes beat her. Well, and Kryptonite, though it occurs to me that only a single story I can think of had her NOT be hurt by that because she's from Krypton 2. And magic.

[Restingvoice]

Wait, let me review, both Post Crisis and New 52 Power Girls were their Earth 2 Supergirls respectively. Both started out as Kara but ended up as Karen Starr once they moved Earth.

Which Supergirl died in Crisis? Oh. Earth 1 Supergirl. Of course. Then the worlds merge into New Earth. Earth 2 Supergirl became Power Girl once she grew up but Earth 1 Supergirl who was younger was still Supergirl when she died.

But both Kara arrived early when Dick was a little Robin.

Then in Post Crisis, there's Matrix Supergirl during Death of Superman era when Dick was already Nightwing, Cir-El during Cassandra Cain Batgirl, Linda Lee after Infinite Crisis, until finally, Kara arrived and she became the Supergirl of Stephanie Brown Batgirl and Tim Red Robin era.

As for Power Girl, there's the whole Atlantean thing before they reestablished that Earth 2 existed

In New 52, Kara also arrived late, since the Bat-family timeline continues where they left off even though the back story is compressed, Tim is already Red Robin, but her Batgirl counterpart is back to Babs because she returned as Batgirl.

New 52 Power Girl is also older, already working, before returning to her home Earth and leaving the name Power Girl to Tanya.

and now she's back because of the new undefined timeline.

but in the new timeline draft for 5G there's only mention of 1 Kara Zor-El Supergirl, back to Dick and Babs generation. The rest remains to be seen.

[achilles]

I might add that apart from the nu52, Power Girl was always called Power Girl, not Supergirl no matter what universe she was in. While she has worn the "S" shield from time to time before the nu52, wearing for that length of time is new, as are the colors.

[Ascended]

I've always seen Dick at 25-27 in present day and Karen 28-30. For what it's worth, Bruce and Clark are about 38 as I've thought of them.

That's about how I see it too. I figure Dick is 26-28, Karen is 29-32.

Bruce and Clark are, in my mind, both probably about 40 now, somewhere between 39 and 42. I figure, Clark became Superman somewhere after college age; 24-25 or so (New52 started younger but post-Crisis got a college degree first). Add in a few years of him being a single Superman, then a few years of him dating Lois, and he's probably around 30 before he gets married. Then Jon is born, and Jon was ten before his summer trip that went awry. So if Clark's not 40 yet, he's awfully damn close.

Supergirl is....harder to nail down, between her inconsistent portrayals, reboots, and the age games that have been played with her and her peers like Babs and the YJ kids. In pre-Crisis, Kara was in college, and hasn't the Rebirth stuff done something similar with the DEO? That would probably put her anywhere from 19-23; a few years older than Tim and YJ, a few years younger than Dick and the NTT.