Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[Stanlos]

I honestly fear that bringing back the dead Supergirl AND putting Peege back in the Superman family instead of Atlantis has pretty much sealed her fate. Now that there will be even fewer comics it is not likely there will be bandwidth enough to do anything of significance with her now that she is relegated to alternative earth Supergirl.

[Agent Z]

Her personality, history, and potential. She's in many respects nearly a blank slate who could become nearly any kind of truly great character. And drawing a sharp distinction between her and SG could only help PG. Giving her a unique or at least unique niche for the Superman Family would help the character in a number of ways. And it doesn't have to be major surgery. Her backstory with the JSA and the League could still be valid and there, in fact I think it would be nice to see.

I'd say these are all enough to make her stand out. There isn't anything special about most superheroes. It's how writers execute their stories that makes them stand out.

[achilles]

I'd say these are all enough to make her stand out. There isn't anything special aboutamost superheroes. It's how writers execute their stories that makes them stand out.

Well, since PG has no truly memorable, to say nothing of great, stories, I'd say relying on writers to simply "get" her right isn't working. Also considering where she is right now. nowhere. But having a fairly unique niche, and a role to play aside from "Kryptonian number 6", might go a ways to making her a character who might get used again.

[achilles]

I honestly fear that bringing back the dead Supergirl AND putting Peege back in the Superman family instead of Atlantis has pretty much sealed her fate. Now that there will be even fewer comics it is not likely there will be bandwidth enough to do anything of significance with her now that she is relegated to alternative earth Supergirl.

Are there any ways DC might use apart from traditional floppies to put out PG solo stories, even in limited format? I mean that are appropriate to the character? And which might actually result in DC doing it?

It does get a bit tiresome to see newly created characters who haven't even been published yet getting minis and TV shows, while PG sits entirely unused. Yet she has the best of both worlds. She's an established character with a fanbase; yet virtually nothing has been written about her specifically, and her past, reasons behind her motivations, and skillset----basically anything personal about her is as of yet unknown. And for that BTW, personally, I favor giving her an actual past on whichever version of Krypton they decide to make her from, so that her Krypton itself can play a role in her story. For example, what did she dream of doing while on Krypton? Did she want to be an explorer, a scientist, a cop, a teacher...what? What exactly did she do and learn on Krypton? Can they work out a maybe more imaginative way to get her from Krypton safely to Earth 2? Did she go directly there, or have adventures along the way in space?

I don't get the impression that anyone connected with DC has ever bothered to game anything about her at all, or bothered to do anything beyond start putting pen to paper, so to speak. It's little wonder no one has done anything with her if they haven't even bothered to do that.

[Robanker]

Right now with everything in flux, there doesn't seem to be any reason for a PG solo, traditional or digital. You'd need a writer with a bit of a hot streak demanding the project as consolation for taking on something that will print money. Think Scott Snyder accepting another Batman book on the condition he gets to write PG (and please don't let him, good lord).

She's just got no momentum right now. Even if she did, I imagine it'd be a digital book that would come out as a trade, possibly physicals if the sales were great.

Kara (all of them) having a past on Kyrpton only ever seems to get used for flavor text. "Oh she was kind of into science," or "she babysat Kal" but it's mostly just to color the main story being told. Like with Bruce's time training, it doesn't get fleshed out a ton outside of small flashbacks. You could absolutely set up Karen's time on Krypton to further develop her-- but the problem is that specifically with Karen, why would you? Most readers relate more to Earth than they would to a Krypton backdrop and she lost an Earth too. It has the benefit of alternate takes on characters the readers know, love and have an attachment to so they'd feel a greater sense of loss and connect more with Karen when she laments they're gone. I feel like any "on Krypton she..." would just come across easier with "on her Earth she..."

Not saying I don't personally want to see more Krypton, but it just seems likely we'd get more flashes back to Earth-2 than Krypton, particularly because that sets her more apart from Supergirl proper. E2 is usually more old-timey, so perhaps Starrware was cutting edge over there where on Prime Earth they're just one of many software R&D firms. Maybe E2 was actually more progressive socially and she's got trouble reconciling that with her current adopted home. Hell, maybe it was less progressive and that conflicts with the rose-tinted glasses she tends to wear when reflecting on it.

Her past is almost always used to highlight the JSA or what she lost, so whichever period of it the team wants to explore, adding some backstory is welcome. Just please, no more "oh she totally was going to have a thing with [new character] and they're back now so hey love interest-- scratch that, they're together now! LURVE!" Looking at you, Val-Zod.


As for the Barry Allen effect, yeah. It's a shame. Soon Supergirl will mine so much of PG's character that the people who say "PG's just boobs" will eventually be right. God, that hurts just to think about.

[The_Lurk]

Right now with everything in flux, there doesn't seem to be any reason for a PG solo, traditional or digital. You'd need a writer with a bit of a hot streak demanding the project as consolation for taking on something that will print money. Think Scott Snyder accepting another Batman book on the condition he gets to write PG (and please don't let him, good lord).

She's just got no momentum right now. Even if she did, I imagine it'd be a digital book that would come out as a trade, possibly physicals if the sales were great.

Kara (all of them) having a past on Kyrpton only ever seems to get used for flavor text. "Oh she was kind of into science," or "she babysat Kal" but it's mostly just to color the main story being told. Like with Bruce's time training, it doesn't get fleshed out a ton outside of small flashbacks. You could absolutely set up Karen's time on Krypton to further develop her-- but the problem is that specifically with Karen, why would you? Most readers relate more to Earth than they would to a Krypton backdrop and she lost an Earth too. It has the benefit of alternate takes on characters the readers know, love and have an attachment to so they'd feel a greater sense of loss and connect more with Karen when she laments they're gone. I feel like any "on Krypton she..." would just come across easier with "on her Earth she..."

Not saying I don't personally want to see more Krypton, but it just seems likely we'd get more flashes back to Earth-2 than Krypton, particularly because that sets her more apart from Supergirl proper. E2 is usually more old-timey, so perhaps Starrware was cutting edge over there where on Prime Earth they're just one of many software R&D firms. Maybe E2 was actually more progressive socially and she's got trouble reconciling that with her current adopted home. Hell, maybe it was less progressive and that conflicts with the rose-tinted glasses she tends to wear when reflecting on it.

Her past is almost always used to highlight the JSA or what she lost, so whichever period of it the team wants to explore, adding some backstory is welcome. Just please, no more "oh she totally was going to have a thing with [new character] and they're back now so hey love interest-- scratch that, they're together now! LURVE!" Looking at you, Val-Zod.


As for the Barry Allen effect, yeah. It's a shame. Soon Supergirl will mine so much of PG's character that the people who say "PG's just boobs" will eventually be right. God, that hurts just to think about.

But would that not leave a void for Supergirl fans?

I recently watched the first few episodes of DC Superhero Girls which, among others, has Supergirl. In name and costume. Its just shes totally nothing like Supergirl at all. Shes what I would totally imagine a modern take on PGs teen years (translated into a light hearted kids show); but she has sub-zero SG vibes. She even sports the short hair style and, from what I gathered, even fooled around with various costume styles in some future episode ending up in a PG style costume (no idea if she is cemented as PG then which honestly would be spot on or just goofing around for an episode*).

You can have SG, you can have PG, you can even have both. But if you roll them into one... well... taking the above show into context SG ceases to exist and becomes PG.

*edit:
Ok, was just a one episode thing. Does not change that shes really not like SG.

[achilles]

Right now with everything in flux, there doesn't seem to be any reason for a PG solo, traditional or digital. You'd need a writer with a bit of a hot streak demanding the project as consolation for taking on something that will print money. Think Scott Snyder accepting another Batman book on the condition he gets to write PG (and please don't let him, good lord).

She's just got no momentum right now. Even if she did, I imagine it'd be a digital book that would come out as a trade, possibly physicals if the sales were great.

Kara (all of them) having a past on Kyrpton only ever seems to get used for flavor text. "Oh she was kind of into science," or "she babysat Kal" but it's mostly just to color the main story being told. Like with Bruce's time training, it doesn't get fleshed out a ton outside of small flashbacks. You could absolutely set up Karen's time on Krypton to further develop her-- but the problem is that specifically with Karen, why would you? Most readers relate more to Earth than they would to a Krypton backdrop and she lost an Earth too. It has the benefit of alternate takes on characters the readers know, love and have an attachment to so they'd feel a greater sense of loss and connect more with Karen when she laments they're gone. I feel like any "on Krypton she..." would just come across easier with "on her Earth she..."

Not saying I don't personally want to see more Krypton, but it just seems likely we'd get more flashes back to Earth-2 than Krypton, particularly because that sets her more apart from Supergirl proper. E2 is usually more old-timey, so perhaps Starrware was cutting edge over there where on Prime Earth they're just one of many software R&D firms. Maybe E2 was actually more progressive socially and she's got trouble reconciling that with her current adopted home. Hell, maybe it was less progressive and that conflicts with the rose-tinted glasses she tends to wear when reflecting on it.

Her past is almost always used to highlight the JSA or what she lost, so whichever period of it the team wants to explore, adding some backstory is welcome. Just please, no more "oh she totally was going to have a thing with [new character] and they're back now so hey love interest-- scratch that, they're together now! LURVE!" Looking at you, Val-Zod.


As for the Barry Allen effect, yeah. It's a shame. Soon Supergirl will mine so much of PG's character that the people who say "PG's just boobs" will eventually be right. God, that hurts just to think about.

Well, I've long since come to the conclusion that being a Power Girl fan means enduring a certain amount of self delusion...now with respect to being optimistic...or at least hopeful...that DC will give her a real chance this time, not something cut short by yet another event like before. I may come across as a bit pessimistic about her chances, and to be sure on one level, I am, but I remain able...for now at least...to fool myself into thinking she has a chance at a mini at the least. Or even at an important part in a future animated version of the JSA set in the present day. Or even that someday, by accident, they will violate what seems to be an unofficial ban on using her in live action and at least a reference to the character might sneak in one TV series.

[mathew101281]

Powergirl needs a role. And one that doesn’t just amount to “alternate take on Supergirl”. The problem with linking her to earth two is that it makes her completely reliant on that concept. Powergirl is only as relevant as earth 2 is relevant. It’s a drawback to being tied to the secondary earth. It’s also why I don’t want them spinning Shazam off onto his own earth. In theory it should give him his own earth to be the primary hero in, but in practice it would probably just shuffle him off into even more obscurity.

[Will Evans]

Powergirl needs a role. And one that doesn’t just amount to “alternate take on Supergirl”. The problem with linking her to earth two is that it makes her completely reliant on that concept. Powergirl is only as relevant as earth 2 is relevant. It’s a drawback to being tied to the secondary earth. It’s also why I don’t want them spinning Shazam off onto his own earth. In theory it should give him his own earth to be the primary hero in, but in practice it would probably just shuffle him off into even more obscurity.

That’s why there are two versions.

Shazam is on the Prime Earth with his family Mary, Freddie, Darla, Eugene and Pedro.

Shazam is also on Earth 5, with Mary Marvel and CM3.


There’s a Powergirl hanging with Helena Wayne and Val Zod on Earth 2.

And there’s the Powergirl on Prime Earth who just returned with the Justice Society, After Doomsday Clock.


As for me, Powergirl holds that age range that’s older than teens but not old as Superman. Same as Dick Grayson and Barbara’s Gordon used to.

[achilles]

Powergirl needs a role. And one that doesn’t just amount to “alternate take on Supergirl”. The problem with linking her to earth two is that it makes her completely reliant on that concept. Powergirl is only as relevant as earth 2 is relevant. It’s a drawback to being tied to the secondary earth. It’s also why I don’t want them spinning Shazam off onto his own earth. In theory it should give him his own earth to be the primary hero in, but in practice it would probably just shuffle him off into even more obscurity.

While I like the idea of Earth 2 for PG and the others...in practice, I'm afraid you're right. She would just be shunted into obscurity by a DC that apparently already doesn't like her.

[Stanlos]

Powergirl needs a role. And one that doesn’t just amount to “alternate take on Supergirl”. The problem with linking her to earth two is that it makes her completely reliant on that concept. Powergirl is only as relevant as earth 2 is relevant. It’s a drawback to being tied to the secondary earth. It’s also why I don’t want them spinning Shazam off onto his own earth. In theory it should give him his own earth to be the primary hero in, but in practice it would probably just shuffle him off into even more obscurity.

I feel like that is exactly what Johns and that set leaned into with Infinite Crisis. I was so shocked when they suddenly made her mopey and depressed about not being Supergirl with the only shining light for her coming from "but *I* am the cousin of the *original* Superman! Tralalalaaa!"

When they did that I fear it set us on the path to obscurity

[Badou]

The thing that you have to do with her character is find out how she fits into the Superman family and line of books. That is the clearest path to her character staying around and relevant. She needs to create a clear and distinct role in the Superman franchise, but at the same time that is something she has never had. So I don't really know how DC goes about doing that. The easiest way is to just say she is the Nightwing equivalent. This adult hero that is second to Superman in the Super books and this hero he relies on a lot, but I don't know if DC will ever look at Power Girl like that.

But the Superman books are always in constant publication. So that is why it is her best bet to remain around because the JSA is very inconsistent with their publication. Same with Earth 2. There are even two Earth 2 versions now. The New 52 one with characters like Val Zod where Helena was Robin, or the classic Earth 2 that is meant to be a continuation of the classic Golden Age. So it has gotten even more confusing, but to mainly tie her character to the JSA or Earth 2 hurts her in the long run because both properties have proven to not be sustainable. You end up in situations like we are in now where nothing is being done with them and her character gets stuck in limbo because of it.

[Stanlos]

The thing that you have to do with her character is find out how she fits into the Superman family and line of books. That is the clearest path to her character staying around and relevant. She needs to create a clear and distinct role in the Superman franchise, but at the same time that is something she has never had. So I don't really know how DC goes about doing that. The easiest way is to just say she is the Nightwing equivalent. This adult hero that is second to Superman in the Super books and this hero he relies on a lot, but I don't know if DC will ever look at Power Girl like that.

But the Superman books are always in constant publication. So that is why it is her best bet to remain around because the JSA is very inconsistent with their publication. Same with Earth 2. There are even two Earth 2 versions now. The New 52 one with characters like Val Zod where Helena was Robin, or the classic Earth 2 that is meant to be a continuation of the classic Golden Age. So it has gotten even more confusing, but to mainly tie her character to the JSA or Earth 2 hurts her in the long run because both properties have proven to not be sustainable. You end up in situations like we are in now where nothing is being done with them and her character gets stuck in limbo because of it.

There's where the unfortunate reality of the link to Supergirl fears it's head again. Why? Because isn't Supergirl's his Nightwing? Power Girl is the Nightwing of the older Superman that doesn't do adventures anymore. If they aren't going to make her on an earth where she is the Nightwing to her own Supes how does she function without diminishes/challenging Supergirl's primacy as the Nightwing?

In a way, I wonder if leaning into the fact of the relationship between the two femmes may be the only way. Like a big sister, little sister thing

[Robanker]

There's where the unfortunate reality of the link to Supergirl fears it's head again. Why? Because isn't Supergirl's his Nightwing? Power Girl is the Nightwing of the older Superman that doesn't do adventures anymore. If they aren't going to make her on an earth where she is the Nightwing to her own Supes how does she function without diminishes/challenging Supergirl's primacy as the Nightwing?

In a way, I wonder if leaning into the fact of the relationship between the two femmes may be the only way. Like a big sister, little sister thing

Considering Kal is Supergirl's closest thing to an older relative and writers just use him as someone for her to beat up or be measured up to and surpassed, I don't want them linking PG to her. Unlike Clark, PG isn't a bigger brand than Supergirl so she would always come up short. It doesn't help PG one bit.

[achilles]

I think it's obvious that she really needs to have someone really distinguish her in some way from SG, and give her a real role both in the Superman Family that's distinct from SG and SM for that matter, and in the wider DCU as well. That probably does mean abandoning Earth 2 and figuring out some way to fit her into the main DCU's Kryptonian El family. Personally, I have no problem with Earth 2...but I think DC and WB do.