Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[TheManhunterfromMars]

Why is it good for some dude Dick Grayson to date many women, but "wrong" if it is a woman dating many men, like Power Girl herself on New 52!? Don´t you think that´s prejudice? Also, I repeate: SHE IS KARA, she is another version of Supergirl, adult, but still she is Kara.

Supergirl has a long list of boyfriends, so it doesn´t make sense just insist on "if she dates many guys she is a thot", Supergirl and Power Girl are powerful, they´re sure of themselves, they´re brave, not only as heroines, but also as women, that´s why they date as many as they want.

Also, at first I said "I really need Power Girl x Mr. Terrific again, but... you know... WELL DONE, well developed. Their relationship was weird, they clearly got intimate, but she denied being with Michael as a couple
", what it means I RECOGNICE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WASN´T WELL DONE, BUT I WANT A SECOND CHANCE, THIS TIME WRITERS NEED MAKE IT RIGHT.

Also, you read bad again, you said "You've done nothing to explain why that relationship helps either of them" I don´t talked about that relationship in specific, I talked about relationships in general, you all talk about Power Girl needs more: own foes, friends, SOMETHING INTERESTING, all before giving her a boyfriend.

It almost sound like mostly of you think she being in a love relationship can´t help her character, making her more interesting, force her making hard choices, but it can, DC has a long history of love helping building a character, like Superman himself, or Batman with Catwoman, etc etc.

About why I want her with Mr. Terrific, I think it may be cool to see how they handle the combination of powers and just technology, she and him talking about Kryptonian and human technology, their philosophy, Power Girl I always see her wanting to kill her foes, but Michael does want do it? He could agree with excesive violence of her? How they would handle that? between many reasons.

I agree mostly of all her relationships were bad, but I don´t think Val Zod thinks on her as trophy

[achilles]

Let me point out that Superman and Batman have had many, many decades of proper character development. PG hasn't. We know much less about her character or story than we do many much newer characters. We know more about Damian Wayne, or Jon Kent than we do PG. As for Val Zod, he was a fairly useless character on his own, and no better with nuPG. Proof of how good those relationships were---Mr. Terrific was cancelled before it's originally scheduled end, and that Earth-2 was being read by approximately 3 people when it whimpered into a much overdue death.

You don't build on things that failed. You try a different direction. Mr. Terrific has moved on to his benefit, and I would hope DC would to when it comes to how to use Power Girl.

[TheManhunterfromMars]

Also, since when bad relationships= series cancelled? You do know Mr Terrific dated another woman after PG, right? The one who as insanely jealous of Karen? No, bad relationship isn´t equal to "you´re cancelled", by that logic, Teen Titans Rebirth a long ago must have been cancelled: the weird Kid Flash x Raven, the weird love triangle Damian and two LGBT women, so... no, point not taken. You can try a different direction, sure, but bad ideas ends with bad consequences (often), good ideas with poorly execution ends with bad consequences... and good ideas ends with good consequences...often.

DC must and needs think better and develop better this sort of things. May I know how you know how to "use PG" if you recognice she hasn´t been developed or has few interesting things? Really, it´s interesting, it´s the same Cyborg and John Stewart fandom says, "it has potential", but they recognice their characters barely show up...

[achilles]

Moving right along, hopefully PG will make a real appearance sooner rather than later since none of this even matters until then. AFAIK, in continuity, whatever THAT means today, she still hasn't even uttered a word, (disregarding the Harley stuff).

[TheManhunterfromMars]

I know we have a lot of difference, but, can we agree the PG use on Harley´s comic is too cringe?

[Robanker]

Why is it good for some dude Dick Grayson to date many women, but "wrong" if it is a woman dating many men, like Power Girl herself on New 52!? Don´t you think that´s prejudice? Also, I repeate: SHE IS KARA, she is another version of Supergirl, adult, but still she is Kara.

Supergirl has a long list of boyfriends, so it doesn´t make sense just insist on "if she dates many guys she is a thot", Supergirl and Power Girl are powerful, they´re sure of themselves, they´re brave, not only as heroines, but also as women, that´s why they date as many as they want.

Also, at first I said "I really need Power Girl x Mr. Terrific again, but... you know... WELL DONE, well developed. Their relationship was weird, they clearly got intimate, but she denied being with Michael as a couple
", what it means I RECOGNICE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WASN´T WELL DONE, BUT I WANT A SECOND CHANCE, THIS TIME WRITERS NEED MAKE IT RIGHT.

Also, you read bad again, you said "You've done nothing to explain why that relationship helps either of them" I don´t talked about that relationship in specific, I talked about relationships in general, you all talk about Power Girl needs more: own foes, friends, SOMETHING INTERESTING, all before giving her a boyfriend.

It almost sound like mostly of you think she being in a love relationship can´t help her character, making her more interesting, force her making hard choices, but it can, DC has a long history of love helping building a character, like Superman himself, or Batman with Catwoman, etc etc.

About why I want her with Mr. Terrific, I think it may be cool to see how they handle the combination of powers and just technology, she and him talking about Kryptonian and human technology, their philosophy, Power Girl I always see her wanting to kill her foes, but Michael does want do it? He could agree with excesive violence of her? How they would handle that? between many reasons.

I agree mostly of all her relationships were bad, but I don´t think Val Zod thinks on her as trophy

That's all I asked for. Reasoning. Fair enough, though nobody is slut shaming PG for not just having 1-2 love interests in her career. It's fine for her to. I don't know who was calling her a thot.

Val and Michael never thought of her as an accessory, DC put them on her arm as one. It's how the books treated her and that's what killed the idea. Poor execution will kill anything dead more effectively than just about anything. New 52 rebooting all but Batman and GL is proof of that. The entire concept of the reboot was stillborn because they couldn't commit. None of us want to move back to any of her relationships or hookups. We're looking ahead.

Everyone is entitled to their ships. It's fine. But I think that a love interest is less important than a foe all her own and a status quo that works. A boyfriend is supporting cast, and even then only a part of it. She needs that for sure. She has the basics already in terms of friends and a team. She needs a rogues gallery or at least one great villain before her love life gets developed, at least in my opinion. I'm fine with her dating or not. Being about 28 and just comfortable living with only her cat is fine too. A boyfriend isn't a priority for Karen, never has been, and I'm okay with that.

Moving on, I too am eagerly waiting for Karen to stop being wallpaper. She got a speaking role in Amanda and Jimmy's book again so that's nice, but she's just a straight man to Harley's shenanigans so nothing much there (but still great to see her!)

They recently revealed at C2E2 that they pitched a team-up that DC didn't go for and another PG/Harley book called "World's Okayest" which both sound like more comedy books. It's nice that at least some creators really love and champion her.

Hoping 2020 has Karen return in a big way. I miss reading her adventures, comedic or straightforward.

I know we have a lot of difference, but, can we agree the PG use on Harley´s comic is too cringe?

It's the same joke she's been dealing with for decades and it's a little past old, but I do appreciate that at least the creators love and keep including PG. At least someone cares.

And I'll never turn away Conner drawing PG.

Mixed feelings, but I'll take what I can get.

[TheManhunterfromMars]

Are you... joking or what? Really do you like the use of PG from Conner and Palmiotti? The ones who make PG the sidekick of Harley, and even worse, the sexualice thing many of you hate? I remember Harley look her "powerfuls" and other sexual things. I don´t know, dude, you say you love Power Girl but also love the idea of her being Harley´s sidekick? kinda contradictory...

[achilles]

So then, DC really only seems to think of her as a comedy character because of the Harley stuff? Is that right? If so, it's grim news for PG fans...

I'd prefer that they decouple PG from Harley; I don't think that one is doing PG any good either. Nor do I personally think they're a good mix.

[Ascended]

I agree about the shipping thing; I'd rather DC just really put effort into developing her as a character and getting her some great stories before shipping her.

Oh absolutely! I mean, I'm the first to bring up Nightwing when shipping gets brought up, but Karen has to stand on her own as a character first and foremost. Until that happens, any relationship isn't going to benefit her or whoever she's dating. Hell it'd be a distraction.

But part of a well rounded character *is* usually their love life (even the absence of one is usually a driving element of their character; like with Holt), and this aspect of Power Girl is as in need of development as the rest of her.

[Ascended]

agree mostly of all her relationships were bad, but I don´t think Val Zod thinks on her as trophy

As badly as it was written I don't think Holt did either.

My issue with Holt is that I don't want *him* dating anyone. And Val-Zod never interested me as a character. The idea of him being a pacifist was interesting, but that was all he had going for him in my opinion. If Karen is going to date another Super (and I don't find much appeal in that personally), I'd much rather it be President Superman or Steel. Karen dating a dude from across the multiverse would be fitting, given her history, and Steel's just an awesome, incredible character. Dick Grayson might be the greatest human on earth but John Henry Irons is definitely on that list, and probably not too far below Dick.

[Ascended]

Are you... joking or what? Really do you like the use of PG from Conner and Palmiotti? The ones who make PG the sidekick of Harley, and even worse, the sexualice thing many of you hate? I remember Harley look her "powerfuls" and other sexual things. I don´t know, dude, you say you love Power Girl but also love the idea of her being Harley´s sidekick? kinda contradictory...

I enjoyed their run. It was fun, and DC doesn't do that very much these days. But it had its serious moments too, it wasn't pure comedy. And Karen having to deal with being objectified totally rang true. It was slightly meta, but tons and tons of women have to deal with that exact thing. And if Karen decided to laugh it off more often than not, that doesn't mean it was a joke. There was deeper context there than a lot of people give the book credit for.

And her dynamic with Harley is fine, within the confines of Harley's book. I wouldn't want it presented exactly like that elsewhere, but Harls' book only has one foot inside continuity anyway. Honestly, I'm just happy that those guys still remember Karen exists, they seem to be the only ones at DC who do.

Edit; sorry for the bulk posts. I thought I had everyone quoted in one post but was very wrong. Still drinking coffee......

[Robanker]

Are you... joking or what? Really do you like the use of PG from Conner and Palmiotti? The ones who make PG the sidekick of Harley, and even worse, the sexualice thing many of you hate? I remember Harley look her "powerfuls" and other sexual things. I don´t know, dude, you say you love Power Girl but also love the idea of her being Harley´s sidekick? kinda contradictory...

Their run on her is what I measure them by. Yes, she's secondary to Harley in Harley's book. That is just comics. But their run on her book and inclusion in their Terra mini? Big fan.

I would rather they aren't even friends, that she just tolerates Harley at best because she knows Harley is trying to be better, but that's not the world we live in.

[The_Lurk]

Why is it good for some dude Dick Grayson to date many women, but "wrong" if it is a woman dating many men, like Power Girl herself on New 52!? Don´t you think that´s prejudice? Also, I repeate: SHE IS KARA, she is another version of Supergirl, adult, but still she is Kara.

Supergirl has a long list of boyfriends, so it doesn´t make sense just insist on "if she dates many guys she is a thot", Supergirl and Power Girl are powerful, they´re sure of themselves, they´re brave, not only as heroines, but also as women, that´s why they date as many as they want.

Also, at first I said "I really need Power Girl x Mr. Terrific again, but... you know... WELL DONE, well developed. Their relationship was weird, they clearly got intimate, but she denied being with Michael as a couple
", what it means I RECOGNICE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WASN´T WELL DONE, BUT I WANT A SECOND CHANCE, THIS TIME WRITERS NEED MAKE IT RIGHT.

Also, you read bad again, you said "You've done nothing to explain why that relationship helps either of them" I don´t talked about that relationship in specific, I talked about relationships in general, you all talk about Power Girl needs more: own foes, friends, SOMETHING INTERESTING, all before giving her a boyfriend.

It almost sound like mostly of you think she being in a love relationship can´t help her character, making her more interesting, force her making hard choices, but it can, DC has a long history of love helping building a character, like Superman himself, or Batman with Catwoman, etc etc.

About why I want her with Mr. Terrific, I think it may be cool to see how they handle the combination of powers and just technology, she and him talking about Kryptonian and human technology, their philosophy, Power Girl I always see her wanting to kill her foes, but Michael does want do it? He could agree with excesive violence of her? How they would handle that? between many reasons.

I agree mostly of all her relationships were bad, but I don´t think Val Zod thinks on her as trophy

Where did that strong NW reaction came from?

I guess the basic idea was planted much earlier; before flashpoint.



Thats Dick; Bruce was ..."recovering" from Darkseids omega beams at that time.

[achilles]

I would prefer Kara and PG's relationship went back to where it was in their first meeting, long ago, in that Last Laugh thing, where she was carrying Harley back to Arkham after rescuing Cass and Spoiler from some superpowered types or other, doesn't really matter, and she was talking to Oracle at the time, (that's how long ago it was), asking her if she could drop Harley "over" Arkham instead of at Arkham.

Kara may have a sense of humor, but I don't think she'd laugh at Harley.

[achilles]

Where did that strong NW reaction came from?

I guess the basic idea was planted much earlier; before flashpoint.



Thats Dick; Bruce was ..."recovering" from Darkseids omega beams at that time.

Yes, that was a cute little bit, leave you wanting more. That said, I prefer a team-up rather than a romance. Just friends.