Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[achilles]

I would also mainly like PG stories to be rather more Raiders, or perhaps Doc Savage pulpy...but that said, I wouldn't mind individual arcs doing a more serious take, or a more overtly comedic tone. That's one of the things about PG that I so like, she's powerful, but relatable, perhaps more so than the other members of the Super Family, because of her flaws....and she's perfectly suitable for use in just about any kind of story. Even those which only marginally involve superheroing. I wish DC would realize that about her. In fact, I would kind of love a story where PG doesn't even use her powers, but her mind to smackdown a bad guy who stereotypes her based on her looks...

She's a perfect character to invert the dumb blonde stereotype.

[Ascended]

Actually, I kind of like it; a different, maybe less grim spin on Suicide Squad.

Thanks guys. It'd probably end up being more like the original Thunderbolts, only with the villains actually being serious about being heroes. But tomatoes tamahtas.

So I finally got a minute to follow up on my own prompt!

>Ttt!< took you long enough!

My roster would be:

Karen Starr
Atlee (Rookie)
Tanya Spears (Rookie)
Nightwing (Contemporary)
Black Lightning (Veteran)

In between The Terrifics and Doom Patrol? With PG, Dick, *and* Jeff? I'd read the sh*t out of that. But I hope you're ready to get hate mail from Tony Isabella.

I like Atlee quite a bit, though she's far from essential in my mind, and Tanya....we've talked about her before; a black woman in STEM is too good to leave behind, and with your emphasis on her building her own heroic identity I would be supportive of using her. But I'd establish right from issue 1 that she's not going by Power Girl anymore, doesn't want the name, and feels a burning desire to establish her own heroic legacy. Just make it clear right from the very start that she's going in her own direction so we can lay the fear of her replacing Karen to rest forever. She wouldn't need to settle on a new name immediately (could be a subplot?), as long as she's most definitely *not* going by Power Girl.

No problems with Nightwing.

Damn straight you got no problems with Nightwing!

[Robanker]

Thanks guys. It'd probably end up being more like the original Thunderbolts, only with the villains actually being serious about being heroes. But tomatoes tamahtas.



>Ttt!< took you long enough!



In between The Terrifics and Doom Patrol? With PG, Dick, *and* Jeff? I'd read the sh*t out of that. But I hope you're ready to get hate mail from Tony Isabella.

I like Atlee quite a bit, though she's far from essential in my mind, and Tanya....we've talked about her before; a black woman in STEM is too good to leave behind, and with your emphasis on her building her own heroic identity I would be supportive of using her. But I'd establish right from issue 1 that she's not going by Power Girl anymore, doesn't want the name, and feels a burning desire to establish her own heroic legacy. Just make it clear right from the very start that she's going in her own direction so we can lay the fear of her replacing Karen to rest forever. She wouldn't need to settle on a new name immediately (could be a subplot?), as long as she's most definitely *not* going by Power Girl.



Damn straight you got no problems with Nightwing!

You kidding? His hate will fuel my creativity. I dunno, as long as he doesn't really defer to anyone in a subservient manner, Batman isn't on the team and I don't have him hooked up with Tatsu (or anyone not Lynn), I should be fine?

Tanya would probably be brought in by Karen and I think Karen would be fine calling her PG (after all, Tanya is her chosen successor) but if I had to pick, Tanya would vacate the title. Like Dick, I think she took it on to respect someone else who was gone and she'd want to build something new for herself. Her teammates would probably just call her Tanya, but in the field I imagine she'd have a nickname or they'd both go by Power Girl until Tanya was able to find her way. Whereas Atlee's arc is about finding her place in a team dynamic, Tanya's would absolutely be about finding her place in the greater DCU. Think of it as kid in high school (Atlee) as opposed to a college student (Tanya).

I think you need to have Tanya called PG initially. You have to address the elephant in the room and resolve that shared identity with her really wanting to build her own thing, much like Karen and Dick did (see, there's a lot of good reasons for them to be on the team). All three of the older crowd built their own identities (admittedly, Dick borrowed one nobody on Earth knows about, but still) and I think they make an excellent trio to mentor new heroes.

[achilles]

Of course, since DC is very likely to simply use the pre-Flashpoint Power Girl instead of the nu52 version, so....she'd have no relationship at all with Spears, and probably would take exception to someone using her name. And at least politely ask that she stop. I think that was what that bit in Deathstroke was meant to solve...but I also think that was probably abandoned, and the reappearance of PG will have no other explanation....assuming she ever does reappear; COVID might have put paid to any remote chance of that. And if that is indeed the case with the classic PG being the one revived; Spears has no reason at all to appear. So that'd have to be figured out to use Spears with PG.

[Ascended]

You kidding? His hate will fuel my creativity.

You like to play with fire, my friend!

In all seriousness, while Isabella seems extra attached to a character he knew he wouldn't have any control over, he does seem like a fairly decent guy from what little I've seen of him, and his frustration with DC seems to be wholly deserved.

I'd assume that if you treat Jeff with respect and honor the foundation Isabella created he'd probably be okay. Or at least okay-ish. Ultimately my sympathy for him is limited; DC doesn't let creators own their work and everyone knows that going in.

I think you need to have Tanya called PG initially.

You gotta at least cover the fact that she was called Power Girl (for ten minutes), yeah, but I don't think you need to let her use that name for long. By the end of issue 1 you can have her abandon the name and start building her own identity. You do have to address the elephant in the room, but that doesn't mean you have to sit down, have some tea, invite it to stay for dinner and then some drinks afterwards. Acknowledge the elephant, then promptly kick it out.

Of course, since DC is very likely to simply use the pre-Flashpoint Power Girl instead of the nu52 version, so....

It's hard to say, obviously, but it's entirely possible that when continuity gets rebooted or folded or whatever they do this next time, they'll just fuse stuff together, so Karen might have some of her pre-52 history but briefly dated Mr. Terrific, then gave her code name to Tanya before trying to return to earth-2. Or something along those lines. Bottom line, while they might just erase everything since the New52, they might just as equally keep some of it too.

[Robanker]

You like to play with fire, my friend!

In all seriousness, while Isabella seems extra attached to a character he knew he wouldn't have any control over, he does seem like a fairly decent guy from what little I've seen of him, and his frustration with DC seems to be wholly deserved.

I'd assume that if you treat Jeff with respect and honor the foundation Isabella created he'd probably be okay. Or at least okay-ish. Ultimately my sympathy for him is limited; DC doesn't let creators own their work and everyone knows that going in.

I dunno, he seems to think his intent should be gospel and any deviation is blasphemy, and yet his creation is built on the notion that there's a part of Metropolis that Superman ignores, which is himself going against Superman's creator's intent as the original Superman would never abandon a disenfranchised neighborhood beset with crime. I get it, there are takes I detest with most of DC's characters, but it's strange how hard he goes against DC for Black Lightning and decries anyone else trying to add to his myth when he himself has done so for others.

I respect the passion, but he really needs to take a step back and reflect on what he's saying half the time. If I was ever in charge of Jeff's narrative, I'd hope he enjoyed what I'd do, but if he didn't I would just listen to his criticism, internalize what I felt I could use and move on. What else can you do?

You gotta at least cover the fact that she was called Power Girl (for ten minutes), yeah, but I don't think you need to let her use that name for long. By the end of issue 1 you can have her abandon the name and start building her own identity. You do have to address the elephant in the room, but that doesn't mean you have to sit down, have some tea, invite it to stay for dinner and then some drinks afterwards. Acknowledge the elephant, then promptly kick it out.

Considering Metropolis has a T-Rex for a mayor, I think you absolutely do need to have some tea with the elephant in the room lest anyone call you a poor host. "When in Metropolis..." after all!

It's hard to say, obviously, but it's entirely possible that when continuity gets rebooted or folded or whatever they do this next time, they'll just fuse stuff together, so Karen might have some of her pre-52 history but briefly dated Mr. Terrific, then gave her code name to Tanya before trying to return to earth-2. Or something along those lines. Bottom line, while they might just erase everything since the New52, they might just as equally keep some of it too.

Of course, since DC is very likely to simply use the pre-Flashpoint Power Girl instead of the nu52 version, so....she'd have no relationship at all with Spears, and probably would take exception to someone using her name. And at least politely ask that she stop. I think that was what that bit in Deathstroke was meant to solve...but I also think that was probably abandoned, and the reappearance of PG will have no other explanation....assuming she ever does reappear; COVID might have put paid to any remote chance of that. And if that is indeed the case with the classic PG being the one revived; Spears has no reason at all to appear. So that'd have to be figured out to use Spears with PG.

Yeah, I think I'd just bring back pre-FP Karen and essentially Superman Returns it; she found a way to go back to Earth-2 and did so, if only to see if everyone she knew and loved as okay. Before leaving, she probably knew of and spoke with Tanya a time or two and gave her the Power Girl title just to help give her a direction, a nudge to move towards something until she figured out who she wanted to be. Anyway, she went to Earth-2, much like Pre-FP and saw it was fully rebooted with its own PG and she was probably happy everyone she knew and loved was alive, if not sullen at the prospect of truly having no real "home" anymore. She returns to New Earth-Prime Rebirth 52 and realizes that this is the home she's made and starts her team to really start making connections/a home here. Not entirely over being the last daughter of a dead planet/universe, but still forward facing and making a life for herself on her own terms, as she always has.

Best way I'd meld them. That effectively retcons N52 Earth-2, which frankly I cannot stand (putting an S on PG is awful. It erases the very identity she created for herself and regresses her to the exact thing she never wanted to be: female Superman). I have no love for the Mr. Terrific relationship because of how it basically used Karen as a prop, but for those who enjoyed it, I'd do nothing to really retcon it out. I just wouldn't address it. There's nothing wrong with Karen and Michael trying at a relationship, even if I think Michael really needs to get over Paula before he starts dating again.

Honestly, the only romantic entanglements of Karen's that absolutely need to go are her baby (which everyone collectively agreed to let fade into obscurity), that time she and Hal got down (please no) and probably when she's shown interest in Superman when he wasn't her cousin again.

I don't like her crushing on Aquaman or Hawkman, but whatever. Ultimately her love life has been pretty awful because she usually gets paired up with emotional trainwrecks (Hal, Michael) or people with popular love interests (Arthur, Carter).

But PowerWing? That's gold, baby.



GOLD!



Karen is easily one of DC's hidden gems and it's a shame that her tenure as one of DC's touted new icons was so short******d. She easily could have been with the momentum she had towards the end of the Pre-FP universe.

[achilles]

Personally, I'd simply ignore the whole Tanya was ever called Power Girl, and simply introduce her with a new code name, and just retcon her origin so she never had contact with anyone named Power Girl. Or Karen Starr. That simplifies just about everything to do with that character, and at little cost, probably only a tiny fraction of those who might in the future read new Power Girl adventures even read the bit where Spears was given her origin story, much less remember it or care. I don't know how heavily they emphasised the connection to nu52 Power Girl, (the Kryptonian one), but honestly, just presenting Tanya Spears as a completely new character with no connection to Power Girl at all would be best. And if that's the case; there's no real need for Spears to appear at all in Power Girl titles; she can hang out with the Titans or Deathstroke or whoever. I'm still nervous about that character coexisting with Power Girl...I totally see DC or WB killing off the original in favor of Spears. They seemed to be wanting to do that in the nu52. Anyway, I doubt Spears will be interacting with any possible revived Power Girl as PG will almost certainly not be getting a solo title, and Spears has no connections to the JSA---and stronger connections to other titles.

As for PG herself, I'd simply reintroduce the OG classic PG as if she'd simply stepped out for a coffee or something. No real need to explain where she and the rest were, or what she was doing, just continue on as if Flashpoint never happened, (though I imagine she and the rest of the JSA would be aware of it; if nothing else I expect someone would tell her everything she missed).

[Ascended]

I respect the passion, but he really needs to take a step back and reflect on what he's saying half the time. If I was ever in charge of Jeff's narrative, I'd hope he enjoyed what I'd do, but if he didn't I would just listen to his criticism, internalize what I felt I could use and move on. What else can you do?

Nothing, and even listening is more than you have to give. I understand Isabella's frustration and I respect the passion, but he made Jeff for DC, knowing that he'd never own BL or have control of his narrative once he stepped away. If Isabella feels that DC has mistreated him (and from what little I hear he's got reason to feel that way) that sucks, but again.....it's a big company owned by a bigger corporation; what the f*ck did he expect would happen? You can't get in bed with a snake and then complain because it bit you.

Considering Metropolis has a T-Rex for a mayor, I think you absolutely do need to have some tea with the elephant in the room lest anyone call you a poor host. "When in Metropolis..." after all!

Oh, we certainly can't be considered rude! Fine, fine, have it your way!

But PowerWing? That's gold, baby.

I've actually been working on that story. I don't write fan fiction as a rule, but I'm making an exception for Nightwing (along with a fellow poster).

[Celgress]

Chapter Nineteen of my DC/Dragon Ball Z crossover which features a fusion of Power Girl (and Chi Chi) is posted. Check it out, if so inclined. -

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1294361...n-Wife-of-Goku

Enjoy

[Robanker]

Harley never misses an opportunity to objectify Power Girl, does she? It's getting a bit tiresome, to be honest.

If they end up hooking up (which with how often Harley keeps bringing it up, I'm starting to question if Jimmy and Amanda are seeding that) I'll be very annoyed. I really hate the idea of Harley sexually harassing PG until she gets what she wants, even if they're playing it as a joke.

[Agent Z]

Harley never misses an opportunity to objectify Power Girl, does she? It's getting a bit tiresome, to be honest.

If they end up hooking up (which with how often Harley keeps bringing it up, I'm starting to question if Jimmy and Amanda are seeding that) I'll be very annoyed. I really hate the idea of Harley sexually harassing PG until she gets what she wants, even if they're playing it as a joke.

Which comic are you talking about?

[Robanker]

Which comic are you talking about?

Harley Quinn & The Birds of Prey. PG doesn't show up, but is referred to twice and both times are Harley objectifying her as an object of lust.

[Frontier]

Harley Quinn & The Birds of Prey. PG doesn't show up, but is referred to twice and both times are Harley objectifying her as an object of lust.

Jeez Harley, tone down the thirst a little .

[Ascended]

I mean.....it *is* fitting characterization for Harley.

Haven't read the book so I can't speak to the particulars but Harley has always been.....curious.....about Karen. And Harley bringing that up a lot? Well....she's obsessive and tunnel visioned, so.....again, seems like it's keeping in character.

Now, if Harley and Karen actually hooked up? I'd have a problem with that. Harls is bi, but Karen isn't.

[Robanker]

I mean.....it *is* fitting characterization for Harley.

Haven't read the book so I can't speak to the particulars but Harley has always been.....curious.....about Karen. And Harley bringing that up a lot? Well....she's obsessive and tunnel visioned, so.....again, seems like it's keeping in character.

Now, if Harley and Karen actually hooked up? I'd have a problem with that. Harls is bi, but Karen isn't.

Yeah but at some point someone has to step in and let her know what she's doing is not okay. It happens so often and is so laser-focused I can't really dismiss it as a joke in a fictional story anymore. It really is sexual harassment. I love Jimmy and Amanda but I'm really tired of that joke. :/