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  1. #586
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    I didn't really object to Winick writing her, just that he should not have tried to include her in a story at the 11th hour...in her solo. And if he did, her part in it should have concluded in her solo as well. But he did mostly get her personality; though I think some of his dialog was a bit clunky. Which can be a problem I admit. Getting a character's voice down is hard. I think Waid sort of did it in that Brave and the Bold with Wonder Woman...but it was the Power Girl of the past, not the more mature one we see in the JSA titles or her solo. That one has toned down the "fools rush in" bit of PG's personality...a bit. Just enough so that you don't think she doesn't belong leading the JSA. Simone got it close to right, but again, her PG is a bit too impulsive, as she was earlier in her career.

    If any of them were to write her again, I would be okay with it. Especially if they have a plan to actually do something with her.

  2. #587
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    Oh I agree her inclusion at the last minute was weird and didn't flow well. Absolutely. I'm just saying Winnick (is it one "n" or two?) wrote her fairly well, and it seems most of us are in agreement there.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh I agree her inclusion at the last minute was weird and didn't flow well. Absolutely. I'm just saying Winnick (is it one "n" or two?) wrote her fairly well, and it seems most of us are in agreement there.
    You know, I initially thought it was two "n", but it's only one, (I looked it up).

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I might point out that though PG was leading the team in JSA vs Kobra, Johns wasn't the guy who wrote it. Nor did he write the comics where PG put Magog in his place.

    Sadly, that era was the best time for PG, aside from maybe her All-Star years and her JLE years.

    And none of them gave fans anything close to a great, Power Girl focused story. She needs a few of those for most people to take her seriously. Give her whatever her version of Batman Year One would look like, or a great origin story, or her DKR or All-Star Superman, with perhaps a sprinkle of "A League of One" or even make her prominent in whatever the next New Frontier is. She needs her own stories on a par with those to really take off.
    This is correct, but he also positioned her so that those things could happen. Don't forget the sad state she was in before he brought her back and restored her Kyrptonian origin. Look, Johns isn't my favorite guy when it comes to Kyrptonians (though I'm more sympathetic to him than my fellow Brother in Powerwing, Ascended), but I do feel he isn't getting the credit deserved for essentially rescuing the character and setting her up so others (Trautman, Sturges, Conner/Palmiotti and Winick) could do stuff with her. Mera is pretty similar. She was in limbo before Blackest Night and he restored her to the prominence deserved which other writers (Parker, Abnett, KSD) could expand on. Frankly, his Mera is a completely different character to who she was before so I don't want anyone telling me "but he respected her characterization!" She changed so much from the Silver Age to 90s to reintroduction that she's essentially a new character each generation. Granted, I love Mera, so don't get me wrong here.

    Johns gets a lot of fair, deserved criticism, but he's also among the best for dusting off an old character and reintroducing them in a way that allows them to stick around and get more play than most anyone in the industry. Aquaman, Mera, Hawkman, The Rogues, Power Girl/The entire JSA, etc. He has his misses (I'd argue Barry, but The Flash has skyrocketed as an IP since so there's clearly some success there even if I hate new Barry), but I don't think he did any real damage to PG. Again, she's not one to mope, but if she was able to discover the truth of her existence and not skip a single beat or have a severe identity crisis, she'd come across significantly flatter a character. Like her cousin, she's among the best at keeping herself together, but even she has her existential realizations that can shake her to the core.

    She had a stronger characterization when she was first brought back in JSA. If you look at her earlier issues, she wasn't mopey then. I think the big problem is that's where he left her as the run concluded so it felt like that was his big statement on PG in general when I feel it was just that he was on the book a decade and felt it was time to move on. I think he would have had a more upbeat PG if the series kept running. Hell, she was very in-character when offered the chair to the JSA.

    Her being in Gen Lost was a bit weird since she was mostly in the less-remembered JLE title of the time, but Giffen also brought her into the second of his and DeMatteis's revival minis of the JLI. She fit that comedy dynamic as the straight woman with a temper, so I can see why the next reunion story with them would draw upon her for the dynamic. Doubly so when her primary writer was also one of the hands steering the ship. It makes enough sense, though yeah, it was a bit tangential that she was involved at best. I wouldn't doubt if editorial asked for it because the book started losing readers when Palmiotti/Conner left.

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This is correct, but he also positioned her so that those things could happen. Don't forget the sad state she was in before he brought her back and restored her Kyrptonian origin. Look, Johns isn't my favorite guy when it comes to Kyrptonians (though I'm more sympathetic to him than my fellow Brother in Powerwing, Ascended), but I do feel he isn't getting the credit deserved for essentially rescuing the character and setting her up so others (Trautman, Sturges, Conner/Palmiotti and Winick) could do stuff with her. Mera is pretty similar. She was in limbo before Blackest Night and he restored her to the prominence deserved which other writers (Parker, Abnett, KSD) could expand on. Frankly, his Mera is a completely different character to who she was before so I don't want anyone telling me "but he respected her characterization!" She changed so much from the Silver Age to 90s to reintroduction that she's essentially a new character each generation. Granted, I love Mera, so don't get me wrong here.

    Johns gets a lot of fair, deserved criticism, but he's also among the best for dusting off an old character and reintroducing them in a way that allows them to stick around and get more play than most anyone in the industry. Aquaman, Mera, Hawkman, The Rogues, Power Girl/The entire JSA, etc. He has his misses (I'd argue Barry, but The Flash has skyrocketed as an IP since so there's clearly some success there even if I hate new Barry), but I don't think he did any real damage to PG. Again, she's not one to mope, but if she was able to discover the truth of her existence and not skip a single beat or have a severe identity crisis, she'd come across significantly flatter a character. Like her cousin, she's among the best at keeping herself together, but even she has her existential realizations that can shake her to the core.

    She had a stronger characterization when she was first brought back in JSA. If you look at her earlier issues, she wasn't mopey then. I think the big problem is that's where he left her as the run concluded so it felt like that was his big statement on PG in general when I feel it was just that he was on the book a decade and felt it was time to move on. I think he would have had a more upbeat PG if the series kept running. Hell, she was very in-character when offered the chair to the JSA.

    Her being in Gen Lost was a bit weird since she was mostly in the less-remembered JLE title of the time, but Giffen also brought her into the second of his and DeMatteis's revival minis of the JLI. She fit that comedy dynamic as the straight woman with a temper, so I can see why the next reunion story with them would draw upon her for the dynamic. Doubly so when her primary writer was also one of the hands steering the ship. It makes enough sense, though yeah, it was a bit tangential that she was involved at best. I wouldn't doubt if editorial asked for it because the book started losing readers when Palmiotti/Conner left.
    That's the thing, the Power Girl solo title didn't really lose readers when Winick took it up; it lost nearly all of it's readers DURING the Palmiotti/Gray/Connor run. It actually took an uptick in readers, (very slight, but unusual for a few months running, toward the end of Winick's run, (after the Gen Lost stuff). It was relatively stable before that in his early run.

    As for Johns, you're absolutely right; and I give him full credit for being the one to bring her back, put her back into prominence, (however short lived), and retconning her back to what she was meant to be. And yes, earlier on in his JSA run she wasn't weepy, and he did get some of her tude into his works. However....he rarely showed her living up to her potential, even early on. That's not unique to him; most people rarely tap into her stated powers and skills, preferring to let her be rescued by other heroes. This is a thing with PG in general, not just when he writes her.

    That said, and with all due thanks to Johns, not only for saving Power Girl, which I think he did, but also for Stargirl, and her TV show. But....IF she gets back into the DCU, I'd very much like to see someone who hasn't written her extensively do the writing honors. And that's true whether it's in the JSA, a solo title, (highly unlikely in the wake of everything), or a mini or other appearance. I think it's past time to take a new tack with the classic PG.

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    That's the thing, the Power Girl solo title didn't really lose readers when Winick took it up; it lost nearly all of it's readers DURING the Palmiotti/Gray/Connor run. It actually took an uptick in readers, (very slight, but unusual for a few months running, toward the end of Winick's run, (after the Gen Lost stuff). It was relatively stable before that in his early run.

    As for Johns, you're absolutely right; and I give him full credit for being the one to bring her back, put her back into prominence, (however short lived), and retconning her back to what she was meant to be. And yes, earlier on in his JSA run she wasn't weepy, and he did get some of her tude into his works. However....he rarely showed her living up to her potential, even early on. That's not unique to him; most people rarely tap into her stated powers and skills, preferring to let her be rescued by other heroes. This is a thing with PG in general, not just when he writes her.

    That said, and with all due thanks to Johns, not only for saving Power Girl, which I think he did, but also for Stargirl, and her TV show. But....IF she gets back into the DCU, I'd very much like to see someone who hasn't written her extensively do the writing honors. And that's true whether it's in the JSA, a solo title, (highly unlikely in the wake of everything), or a mini or other appearance. I think it's past time to take a new tack with the classic PG.
    I'm entirely with you on that front. Problem is I don't know who I think would be a great PG writer that we haven't seen because she's so niche, and with DC's weak editing I'm definitely worried they'll just wing it and make up a personality for her. Who are some of your suggestions?

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm entirely with you on that front. Problem is I don't know who I think would be a great PG writer that we haven't seen because she's so niche, and with DC's weak editing I'm definitely worried they'll just wing it and make up a personality for her. Who are some of your suggestions?
    That's a tough one. I could suggest people like Simone, Eric Trautmann, maybe good James Robinson, (you never know which one will show these days, but he's fine with the Stargirl TV show, and he's done some tiny bit of PG before, mostly getting her right, though I do tire of PG always being the one to be mind controlled because...that's her role. But mostly...I don't know. Part of me wants to try something that probably won't work and is likely dumb, like hiring Garth Ennis for the job. I both shudder and long to see what he'd do with her. AFAIK, he's written her once, hanging out with Starfire and Catwoman in Hitman's bar for reasons never explained, there to provide comic commentary. Which didn't exactly advance his cause regarding PG, but part of me wants to jump off that cliff just to see what happens.

    Beyond that, the one I really wanted to write her, and the one I think would have gotten her better than anyone these days unfortunately never will, Darwyn Cooke. I think his sensibility combined with his art style would have been perfect, particularly if he could have set whatever he wrote in the 50s to match his PG as Marilyn Monroe drawings. Just a straightforward Silver Age style superhero romp with none of the meanness you find so often these days.

  8. #593
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    PG is still part of the Super fam right?

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    PG is still part of the Super fam right?
    As far as we're concerned, yes, but DC seems to think of her more as a JSA character, which in application she kind of is.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    As far as we're concerned, yes, but DC seems to think of her more as a JSA character, which in application she kind of is.
    What is she up to these days anyway? There was that Deathstroke annual but I feel thats the Pre-Crisis PG.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    What is she up to these days anyway? There was that Deathstroke annual but I feel thats the Pre-Crisis PG.
    Appearing in crowd shots and not saying anything in the main line, though she appeared in the first issue if Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey. She just gets hit on and leaves, so not much. Much like the Deathstroke story, it's pre-FP PG.

  12. #597
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I didn't really object to Winick writing her, just that he should not have tried to include her in a story at the 11th hour...in her solo. And if he did, her part in it should have concluded in her solo as well. But he did mostly get her personality; though I think some of his dialog was a bit clunky. Which can be a problem I admit. Getting a character's voice down is hard. I think Waid sort of did it in that Brave and the Bold with Wonder Woman...but it was the Power Girl of the past, not the more mature one we see in the JSA titles or her solo. That one has toned down the "fools rush in" bit of PG's personality...a bit. Just enough so that you don't think she doesn't belong leading the JSA. Simone got it close to right, but again, her PG is a bit too impulsive, as she was earlier in her career.

    If any of them were to write her again, I would be okay with it. Especially if they have a plan to actually do something with her.
    I always thought of Peege as the sassier, more aggressive Supergirl. Part of the fun was when she would go all 'Power Girl'. Did she lose that?

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I always thought of Peege as the sassier, more aggressive Supergirl. Part of the fun was when she would go all 'Power Girl'. Did she lose that?
    When witten correctly, yeah, she's sassier but overall their personalities are pretty different. Generally she's pretty sassy and confident but if you treat her as anything less than equal she puts you squarely in your place-- she doesn't have time for fools... But under Jimmy/Amanda's pen, she treats people objectifying her as beneath her and not really worth getting riled up over because they're immature.

    Kara pretty much gets a lobotomy every five years and changes personality entirely. I have no idea who she is sometimes, but the TV show seems to have granted her some stability and DCSHG basically just made her PG in a SG costume, so maybe one day they'll merge them and be done with it.

    And then I riot.

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    I wonder if a character bible would help in that respect? Giving a baseline of what every character is, what they're like, who their friends are, how they react to various things....that sort of thing. Maybe even their playlists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I wonder if a character bible would help in that respect? Giving a baseline of what every character is, what they're like, who their friends are, how they react to various things....that sort of thing. Maybe even their playlists.
    I think Denny O'Neil had one of those when he edited the Bat books which is probably a factor in why those were so solid under him. Sadly that seems more an exception than the norm.

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