Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[achilles]

Maybe I missed it but when did that run address any body issues?

Men staring at her chest. Mainly that. Also a bit on her overall size. And weight. Connor however did not draw PG as a body builder, simply as a big woman overall.

[Stanlos]

The one with the comic sleepover? I remember that. However, while she does talk about it, and the art, (Sears was it?), did have her as muscular, (and quite tall), she wasn't anything like a bodybuilder). In fact, that is a minority depiction, started IIRC by Ross in Kingdom Come. However...why in story would she look like that? Humans, and I would suspect anything else, have to work hard to look like that. Why or how exactly would a Kryptonian do that---(it's not like people who can bench planets can just go to the gym)? And if she does look like that, wouldn't she be significantly stronger than Supergirl at least? And maybe even than Superman?

A more common look for her has her as a tall, muscular in the fitness model sense woman. Busty, obviously, but even that varies.

I wish it were Sears! I have a weird soft spot for his art and those quirky faces! Whenever I think of Vivian, Captain Atom or Peege I think Of his artistic interpretation. But that was Lee Moder.

But I think Bart is the one that started the ubermuscular depiction and because she was long in that team and so long under his pen other artists picked it up and it stuck.

I did view her as stronger than Supergirl as with the two of them both being Kryptonian females you can look at Apple's to apples. Same with Supes. He is a muscled male of the same species so even if there were not a number of references on his strength as compared to others we could deduce that logically.

[Ascended]

Men staring at her chest. Mainly that. Also a bit on her overall size. And weight. Connor however did not draw PG as a body builder, simply as a big woman overall.

Connor's PG didn't have a ton of muscle definition and went with raw mass over detailed muscle tone, but she was clearly a strong-looking woman and not "just heavy." I'd have preferred more muscle definition myself, but Connor doesn't really draw in that style, even the men rarely get that ripped under her pencil.

And I thought that was great; if an artist isn't going to give Karen the muscle definition we've seen from certain artists (and with Hughes and Ross doing PG/JSA covers I feel like this was becoming her defacto visual, until DC got bored and put her back on the shelf) then I'll accept a thick girl who looks like she can crush your head with her thighs and then bench press you.

And in Palometti's run Karen did deal with her body type mostly through the lens of objectification and how she processed that, which seemed fitting given how confident Karen's supposed to be. She's not one to dwell on the fact that she's too tall and thick for most modern beauty standards (and of course, PG is a good looking girl so it's not like she has much to complain about there). And we got some really good moments in the run that, I thought, captured the sheer bullsh*t of being a pretty girl with....noticeable assets.....pretty well. Hell, this was even a thing when Karen first met Harley Quinn and Palometti explored how other women view and judge the busty chicks....before the interaction devolved into nothing but Harls hitting on PG endlessly.

[achilles]

By "heavy", I was referring to a comment made by an auxiliary character in reference to her literal weight as they carry a stunned PG away.

[Ascended]

By "heavy", I was referring to a comment made by an auxiliary character in reference to her literal weight as they carry a stunned PG away.

Ah, I thought it might've been one of those "if you weigh more than 90 pounds the world tells you you're fat" things, like jeans for small girls still being a size Z or whatever. What's considered thick now would've been considered normal and appealing back in the 90's. Even when she's not drawn as being hyper-muscled she's still a good sized woman.

[achilles]

Ah, I thought it might've been one of those "if you weigh more than 90 pounds the world tells you you're fat" things, like jeans for small girls still being a size Z or whatever. What's considered thick now would've been considered normal and appealing back in the 90's. Even when she's not drawn as being hyper-muscled she's still a good sized woman.

I should also mention that the guy, and yes, it was a guy, mentioned that all of her weight was at one end "because of her great big..." before being interrupted by a female cop...

I think it was Connor's art that sold it. As usual.

[achilles]

Ah, I thought it might've been one of those "if you weigh more than 90 pounds the world tells you you're fat" things, like jeans for small girls still being a size Z or whatever. What's considered thick now would've been considered normal and appealing back in the 90's. Even when she's not drawn as being hyper-muscled she's still a good sized woman.

As an aside, visually I liked Connor's depiction of PG best with respect to overall body type. Sure she wasn't a waif like come recent depictions of Supergirl, but that's fine and good. Just big and fit.

[Ascended]

Absolutely. I'm fine with Kara being a skinny waif of a thing, she's a teenager and it creeps me out when people draw her like some 24 year old model who's, um, "fully developed." She's a kid, for f*ck's sake, yknow? It's weird.

Karen on the other hand, I prefer her very tall and broad; if I can get it I want her heavily muscled but I'll gladly accept her just being "big and fit" as well.

[Robanker]

Amanda Conner's PG is probably the best baseline model.

Ascended, with respect to a heavily muscled PG, which artist do you think best rendered her as you see it?

[Ascended]

Amanda Conner's PG is probably the best baseline model.

Ascended, with respect to a heavily muscled PG, which artist do you think best rendered her as you see it?

Probably Alex Ross when it comes to Karen's physique, but Hughes when it comes to hair and face, and Conner when it comes to body language and facial expression.

Ross gave her some real mass as well as a decent amount of definition without going overboard; his Power Girl has the same kind of raw physical presence Clark does, and I think Karen needs to have that "intimidation factor" in her arsenal. But something about how he draws her face doesn't appeal to me, she looks older and more worn than she should (not just Kingdom Come), and he only seems to use "standard male body language" for her, which I think is crazy limiting for a "power girl."

Hughes seemed to rub a good dose of a Marilyn Monroe vibe into Karen's look and I like that "sexy firecracker" thing; he manages to make Karen look strong, confident, and powerful without sacrificing femininity, but he goes a little *too* far with it, and I like a little more muscle than Hughes includes.

Conner puts so much sass and fun into the character you can tell exactly what kind of person she is just by her expressions. Conner's Karen is fun, confident, and comfortable in her own sexiness and all of that is easily apparent in Conner's art, but like I said earlier I want a little more muscle definition and mass than Conner uses. Conner's great as a baseline starting point and I'd want any artist drawing PG to study the hell out of Conner, but Karen should have big muscles as well as the big boobs.

All in my opinion, of course.

[Robanker]

Probably Alex Ross when it comes to Karen's physique, but Hughes when it comes to hair and face, and Conner when it comes to body language and facial expression.

Ross gave her some real mass as well as a decent amount of definition without going overboard; his Power Girl has the same kind of raw physical presence Clark does, and I think Karen needs to have that "intimidation factor" in her arsenal. But something about how he draws her face doesn't appeal to me, she looks older and more worn than she should (not just Kingdom Come), and he only seems to use "standard male body language" for her, which I think is crazy limiting for a "power girl."

Hughes seemed to rub a good dose of a Marilyn Monroe vibe into Karen's look and I like that "sexy firecracker" thing; he manages to make Karen look strong, confident, and powerful without sacrificing femininity, but he goes a little *too* far with it, and I like a little more muscle than Hughes includes.

Conner puts so much sass and fun into the character you can tell exactly what kind of person she is just by her expressions. Conner's Karen is fun, confident, and comfortable in her own sexiness and all of that is easily apparent in Conner's art, but like I said earlier I want a little more muscle definition and mass than Conner uses. Conner's great as a baseline starting point and I'd want any artist drawing PG to study the hell out of Conner, but Karen should have big muscles as well as the big boobs.

All in my opinion, of course.

Literally my answer. Great minds think alike. Well-done, my dude. I'm laughing because you nailed my thoughts exactly.

[achilles]

You know what's a terrible shame? One of the best, though obviously period, depictions I've even seen wasn't even a production bit of art, simply either a doodle or a commission. And it was from the person I most wanted to read a Power Girl story written and drawn by. I'm fairly sure if he had ever done that, it would have been by far the best single Power Girl story ever.

Sadly, the man in question was Darwyn Cooke. His few drawings of PG were the ones who really took that Marilyn Monroe thing to the extreme, featuring a 50s PG looking very much like the late actress. A story with that art, by a guy who can come up with things like New Frontier, with a 50s PG? I'd love to see an out of continuity PG getting involved in the dawn of the space race, and fighting Silver Age type villains. With or without the JSA.

[achilles]

Gah, board ate my post.

[Ascended]

Literally my answer. Great minds think alike. Well-done, my dude. I'm laughing because you nailed my thoughts exactly.

Ha! We do seem to be on the same page about several things, especially when it comes to Karen.

Gotta agree with achilles too; Cooke drew a damn fine Power Girl. When I was writing that last post about artists I was thinking "there's been a lot of people who draw her really well and I know I'm gonna forget a few worth mentioning" and Cooke is absolutely at the top of that list. But I feel like there's nobody Cooke *didnt* draw well.

I'm a sucker for period piece work so I'd definitely be down for a Silver Age type of PG story set in the past.

[Robanker]

Cooke drew everything damn fine.

I fixed that for you. For a moment you went crazy. You fixed it by the end, but still.