Karen Starr: Power Girl Appreciation 2020

[achilles]

Thing is, I don't think anyone current can do anywhere near the job Cooke did and could have done on Silver Age type stories. And the combination of his art and story just is hard to equal.

[Ascended]

I fixed that for you. For a moment you went crazy. You fixed it by the end, but still.

Thanks, appreciate you helping keep me in line. 2020 got me straight up loco.

And yeah, Cooke was a talent you can't just find an equal for. I mean, I'd hold up stuff like Waid/Samnee's runs at Marvel as an example of creators who do that "stylishly classic" modern-retro vibe really well, but that's taking two (or more) really talented people, and whether they still match up to one Cooke is debatable.

[Prime]

I feel like PG neeeds to be more part of the Superman fam from here on out.

[achilles]

It would be fun IMO, if when they revive JSA with classic PG, (my hope), they have her buy The Daily Star, and use George Taylor as the editor, as a nod to that era, which, though she was created long after that, she in a way belongs to.

And if they ever do a PG solo again, I'd like to see her have stories with the likes of The Challengers of The Unknown, the Metal Men, and basically other characters who have a retro feel to them, like they belong on Earth 2 with her and the JSA even if they weren't part of it originally. Which would probably be a moot point, as I suspect the Earth 2 stuff will probably be dealt with some way, and the JSA will likely be on Earth 1 or whatever they call it.

She is IMO a retro-future sort of character...suited to that physical style coupled with the intense optimism and future focus that the Silver Age had....she's basically IMO a Silver Age character wrapped in Bronze Age feminism. I'd like them to play up the Silver Age feel to her, while perhaps giving that Bronze Age feminism a bit of an update, without making that a focus or even a characteristic that you'd notice much unless you're paying close attention.

[achilles]

I feel like PG neeeds to be more part of the Superman fam from here on out.

Well yes, that would certainly raise her profile, (if she currently even had one), quite a lot, if done right. Which means basically putting her in the big Superman Family crossovers, having her appear occasionally in the Superman books outside the big crossovers, and have Superman, Supergirl, and the rest basically acknowledge her as such. I mean back in the day, they had her at BBQs with the rest, and helping out with the Krypton stuff. That should also happen. Yes, she needs to be her own character, but they also need to acknowledge her roots.

[Stanlos]

Probably Alex Ross when it comes to Karen's physique, but Hughes when it comes to hair and face, and Conner when it comes to body language and facial expression.

Ross gave her some real mass as well as a decent amount of definition without going overboard; his Power Girl has the same kind of raw physical presence Clark does, and I think Karen needs to have that "intimidation factor" in her arsenal. But something about how he draws her face doesn't appeal to me, she looks older and more worn than she should (not just Kingdom Come), and he only seems to use "standard male body language" for her, which I think is crazy limiting for a "power girl."

Hughes seemed to rub a good dose of a Marilyn Monroe vibe into Karen's look and I like that "sexy firecracker" thing; he manages to make Karen look strong, confident, and powerful without sacrificing femininity, but he goes a little *too* far with it, and I like a little more muscle than Hughes includes.

Conner puts so much sass and fun into the character you can tell exactly what kind of person she is just by her expressions. Conner's Karen is fun, confident, and comfortable in her own sexiness and all of that is easily apparent in Conner's art, but like I said earlier I want a little more muscle definition and mass than Conner uses. Conner's great as a baseline starting point and I'd want any artist drawing PG to study the hell out of Conner, but Karen should have big muscles as well as the big boobs.

All in my opinion, of course.

I loved the hair, the detailing on her suit, and the definition but the face seemed to be pretty rough. I like the way AH! does her face the most

[achilles]

What about that stock cover they used for Power Girl #27? Foreshortening problems notwithstanding, I thought that cover was quite nice. The face especially.

[Stanlos]

What about that stock cover they used for Power Girl #27? Foreshortening problems notwithstanding, I thought that cover was quite nice. The face especially.

She's pretty! It looks like the heavy mascara is common through a number Of artist's rendering of her

[achilles]

So even in Future State, a series of titles which are essentially Elseworlds, Power Girl still isn't considered part of the Superman Family, (though at this point every other character DC owns seems to be), or indeed even present at all in any of the Future State titles. Hate to say it, but that suggests DC either forgot about PG, or is going to turn her into a Z list character, with no dialog from decade to decade.

Honestly, DC is very close to losing me entirely. No PG, little JSA, the worst version of Alan Scott, a version of Dr. Fate I don't like, and nothing on characters like Cyclone...no Fire or Ice or many of the other JLI/JLA/ JLE Giffen League players, no LEGION/REBELS plus a heel turn for Vril Dox. If DC doesn't make huge progress on changing all of that, and especially PG by the final quarter of next year, they've lost me, probably for good.

[Artemisfanboy]

So even in Future State, a series of titles which are essentially Elseworlds, Power Girl still isn't considered part of the Superman Family, (though at this point every other character DC owns seems to be), or indeed even present at all in any of the Future State titles. Hate to say it, but that suggests DC either forgot about PG, or is going to turn her into a Z list character, with no dialog from decade to decade.

Honestly, DC is very close to losing me entirely. No PG, little JSA, the worst version of Alan Scott, a version of Dr. Fate I don't like, and nothing on characters like Cyclone...no Fire or Ice or many of the other JLI/JLA/ JLE Giffen League players, no LEGION/REBELS plus a heel turn for Vril Dox. If DC doesn't make huge progress on changing all of that, and especially PG by the final quarter of next year, they've lost me, probably for good.

I want try to remain calm and keep a cool head. I realize Karen is probably internally at DC considered a JSA family character, and not a Superman family character. And their dragging their feat on on relaunching the JSA is really annoying. But I realize things move kind of slow with monthly publication. And right now their trying to buy more time to get a main universe relaunch initiative together for March. I'm willing to wait a little longer for a JSA relaunch with the team from doomsday clock, but if we don't get it this year(despite several JSA related media projects going on) or if Power Girl is MIA without good explanation or reason, then I'll be pissed. But I want to hold back on the anger for now.

Almost scared to bring up Kara wearing red and white or Tanya getting a cameo in the Shazam book.

[Stanlos]

Am I overreacting to think that Peege might be at risk of being relegated to being a mere future state of Supergirl? That future state stuff has me scared

[Artemisfanboy]

Am I overreacting to think that Peege might be at risk of being relegated to being a mere future state of Supergirl? That future state stuff has me scared

Future State Kara is going by the name of Superwoman, so I'd say there's no reason to worry too much. The white and red colors are a PG reference, but they are counterparts of each other, so I'm inclined to say it's nothing to worry about on it's own.

Tanya getting a small appearance in the FS Shazam book doesn't bother me either because last time we saw her in the present she was trying to rescue Pre-Flashpoint Power Girl from that dimension Manhattan had her trapped in and getting trapped herself, so bringing her back presumably means bringing Karen back too.

I'm still fairly certain Karen should be with the JSA when they relaunch with the returned team since she was there with them in Doomsday Clock. The problem is they're really dragging their heels when it comes to them. Hopefully we'll get our JSA announcement for the March relaunch and she'll be present.

[Ascended]

I want try to remain calm and keep a cool head. I realize Karen is probably internally at DC considered a JSA family character, and not a Superman family character. And their dragging their feat on on relaunching the JSA is really annoying. But I realize things move kind of slow with monthly publication. And right now their trying to buy more time to get a main universe relaunch initiative together for March. I'm willing to wait a little longer for a JSA relaunch with the team from doomsday clock, but if we don't get it this year(despite several JSA related media projects going on) or if Power Girl is MIA without good explanation or reason, then I'll be pissed. But I want to hold back on the anger for now..

This is where I'm at. For the last twenty years or so, Karen's been primarily a JSA character and her ties to Clark have been thin. As much as I hate her absence, and her poor treatment in the New52, I can be chill and wait politely and patiently until March, when we'll presumably get an idea of what direction DC will be headed in.

If there's no JSA and/or no Karen, *then* we riot!

[Stanlos]

This is where I'm at. For the last twenty years or so, Karen's been primarily a JSA character and her ties to Clark have been thin. As much as I hate her absence, and her poor treatment in the New52, I can be chill and wait politely and patiently until March, when we'll presumably get an idea of what direction DC will be headed in.

If there's no JSA and/or no Karen, *then* we riot!

Do you think those currently in the Superman family are being treated well? I worry they don't have the capacity. I mean look at Batman's family. It is ginormous and they don't seem to know what to do with half of them.

[Robanker]

Am I overreacting to think that Peege might be at risk of being relegated to being a mere future state of Supergirl? That future state stuff has me scared

Future State Kara is going by the name of Superwoman, so I'd say there's no reason to worry too much. The white and red colors are a PG reference, but they are counterparts of each other, so I'm inclined to say it's nothing to worry about on it's own.

Tanya getting a small appearance in the FS Shazam book doesn't bother me either because last time we saw her in the present she was trying to rescue Pre-Flashpoint Power Girl from that dimension Manhattan had her trapped in and getting trapped herself, so bringing her back presumably means bringing Karen back too.

I'm still fairly certain Karen should be with the JSA when they relaunch with the returned team since she was there with them in Doomsday Clock. The problem is they're really dragging their heels when it comes to them. Hopefully we'll get our JSA announcement for the March relaunch and she'll be present.

The main thing I don't like about it is that it almost implies Power Girl is her intermediate step between Supergirl and Superwoman since PG influences a Superwoman who was never Power Girl. It's just weird.

This is where I'm at. For the last twenty years or so, Karen's been primarily a JSA character and her ties to Clark have been thin. As much as I hate her absence, and her poor treatment in the New52, I can be chill and wait politely and patiently until March, when we'll presumably get an idea of what direction DC will be headed in.

If there's no JSA and/or no Karen, *then* we riot!

More or less where I'm at.