Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 107
  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    2,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Yeah, I think the WWII propaganda was just a very natural thing and not simply expected and forced. I think it was two guys (well, and a ninja army behind the second guy) telling good stories with that backdrop basically as a coincidence.

    Superman is my favorite because he navigates as a character in less certain times. There's a lot more competition and a lot of things that cover different grounds better. There's just no way to suggest that Superman gives you what Black Panther gives you. But then people think he should succeed exceptionally in spite of that. It's tough.

    When someone has a fun story to tell he's at the highest tier as a hero. I mean there's like, Silver Surfer, but Superman has the story range on top.

    I'd love to see the Adventures of Superman hardcover line continue with artist spotlights. Doug Mahnke would be my first choice, as he generally does the consummate sci-fi hero.
    Yep, and even as early as Action Comics #15, Siegel wrote him as someone fighting sharks in an undersea adventure, using the story point of finding lost treasure to save an orphanage as the driving force that catapults him into the shark-fighting adventure in the first place. Whether he’s fighting dinosaurs, werewolves, zombies, or sharks, sometimes you don’t really need corrupt political organizations, or anything overtly political, to have an enjoyable Superman adventure.


  2. #62
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,754

    Default

    Yeah, he's just a guy who taught himself how to deal with virtually anything existence throws at him. From squashing big city street fights as a ten year old, to the romance vibes of Garcia Lopez, to shape shifting and time bending. I don't think historically he's depended on creators overthinking that.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    It’s not so much of bashing but of giving the insight of what has caused Superman to fall behind and what can be done to bring him back to the top, which is actually putting him back to his roots of unapologetically celebrating his alien heritage. Move away from the outdated setting he is in and most importantly that’s been detrimental is this “simple conservative farmboy, Clark Kent, who happens to have powers”. Superman is used as a political figure as being the poster boy for keeping the outdated status quo. The superficial ways of telling the audience Superman is the greatest by having contrived borderline tone deaf stories is not the right way.

    You are wrong, Superman is used in politics as the embodiment of power.

    And the movies have always celebrated his alien heritage even more than his human upbringing to me. I don't think that has been the real problem why he hasn't had a big movie hit in the last 20 years at all. The fact his movies show him too sad and the lack of joy is one big reason why audiences don't find them very entertaining. He is not the problem, it's the people who don't represent him very well. Even so, he still gets voted as America's favorite superhero... And he is still talked about in politics and sports because he is that famous and iconic. I don't see them ever mentioning Captain America or Wonder Woman or Batman. At least I haven't noticed.

    "'He (UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson) went on to suggest that the UK would be the country “ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion”.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/17/t...fore-lockdown/

    And this is just one example of many. Let me guess, you think Superman should abandon his humanity and hook up with Wonder Woman? You think that will make him more loved? I really don't think so. I say that because some of you often say he should forget about Lois because Diana is his true partner. I find that very disrespecful to his mythos and Lois because she was part of his story from the start.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 05-11-2020 at 12:54 PM.

  4. #64
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    "'He (UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson) went on to suggest that the UK would be the country “ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion”.
    @bold Keyword, There is fine line between Savior and a champion. When the character steps over that line and plays into the other. he becomes something pernicious for me, and not what he stood for.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    You are wrong, Superman is used in politics as the embodiment of power.

    And the movies have always celebrated his alien heritage even more than his human upbringing to me. I don't think that has been the real problem why he hasn't had a big movie hit in the last 20 years at all. The fact his movies show him too sad and the lack of joy is one big reason why audiences don't find them very entertaining. He is not the problem, it's the people who don't represent him very well. Even so, he still gets voted as America's favorite superhero... And he is still talked about in politics and sports because he is that famous and iconic. I don't see them ever mentioning Captain America or Wonder Woman or Batman. At least I haven't noticed.

    "'He (UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson) went on to suggest that the UK would be the country “ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion”.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/17/t...fore-lockdown/

    And this is just one example of many. Let me guess, you think Superman should abandon his humanity and hook up with Wonder Woman? You think that will make him more loved? I really don't think so. I say that because some of you often say he should forget about Lois because Diana is his true partner. I find that very disrespecful to his mythos and Lois because she was part of his story from the start.
    That quote used just proved my point. “Supercharged Champion.”

    He is the embodiment of power, sure, but with that power, with what he suppose to represent and the impact he should make, it isn’t exactly as impactful as it should be. You are kind of going about this in a very superficial term. There’s a lot of telling what Superman is, how he is the greatest, how he is first, but known of that has been shown in a way that truly matters or in a very contrived way.

    Superman is suppose to actually take and challenge things head on, not be reactionary or try to play safe and not move the needle.

    For years, Superman has often felt his alien heritage was a burden. There’s no balance in the way he has been written as being “too” alien or celebrating/acknowledging his heritage means he has abandoned humanity. If he dares challenge what’s acceptable by human Americans that’s abandoning humanity. What’s acceptable and is defined as humanity is considering himself as not just human but go to the extremes as a simple Farmboy from Kansas.

    This isn’t about shipping. However, sense it’s brought up, Diana is "human" too. Regardless of the mythical aspects, she is from an island of Earth. Her culture is just different from one of an American but that doesn’t mean she isn’t human or doesn’t know or isn’t linked to humanity. The fact that you link Superman’s humanity as of being with Lois is a problem. Let me ask you. What defines being human and having humanity? Superman and Wonder Woman aren’t just “American” heroes, they are world heroes. I suggest you read up on “Men of Steel, Women of Wonder” exhibit to get better understanding as well.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    That quote used just proved my point. “Supercharged Champion.”

    He is the embodiment of power, sure, but with that power, with what he suppose to represent and the impact he should make, it isn’t exactly as impactful as it should be. You are kind of going about this in a very superficial term. There’s a lot of telling what Superman is, how he is the greatest, how he is first, but known of that has been shown in a way that truly matters or in a very contrived way.

    Superman is suppose to actually take and challenge things head on, not be reactionary or try to play safe and not move the needle.

    For years, Superman has often felt his alien heritage was a burden. There’s no balance in the way he has been written as being “too” alien or celebrating/acknowledging his heritage means he has abandoned humanity. If he dares challenge what’s acceptable by human Americans that’s abandoning humanity. What’s acceptable and is defined as humanity is considering himself as not just human but go to the extremes as a simple Farmboy from Kansas.

    This isn’t about shipping. However, sense it’s brought up, Diana is "human" too. Regardless of the mythical aspects, she is from an island of Earth. Her culture is just different from one of an American but that doesn’t mean she isn’t human or doesn’t know or isn’t linked to humanity. The fact that you link Superman’s humanity as of being with Lois is a problem. Let me ask you. What defines being human and having humanity? Superman and Wonder Woman aren’t just “American” heroes, they are world heroes. I suggest you read up on “Men of Steel, Women of Wonder” exhibit to get better understanding as well.
    I've never linked Superman's humanity to Lois Lane. His humanity comes from the fact he was raised as one of us by the Kents, and also his interactions with all those people from Smallville. To me he is both an alien and a human in his heart. I've never seen him as a simple farmboy. Superman is so much more, he is a complex character and I love that.

    And Lois is an iconic female character in his mythos, and his main love interest like it or not and I hope it never changes if a writers wants to be true to the character and his mythos.

  7. #67
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I've never linked Superman's humanity to Lois Lane. His humanity comes from the fact he was raised as one of us by the Kents, and also his interactions with all those people from Smallville. To me he is both an alien and a human in his heart. I've never seen him as a simple farmboy. Superman is so much more, he is a complex character and I love that.

    And Lois is an iconic female character in his mythos, and his main love interest like it or not and I hope it never changes if a writers wants to be true to the character and his mythos.
    Not really, superman would still be "only human" even if he was raised by apes.Furthermore, there are versions that are just orphans.As said, max fleischer superman was never reclaimed by the kents. He lived out his life as an orphan, it would seem.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I've never linked Superman's humanity to Lois Lane. His humanity comes from the fact he was raised as one of us by the Kents, and also his interactions with all those people from Smallville. To me he is both an alien and a human in his heart. I've never seen him as a simple farmboy. Superman is so much more, he is a complex character and I love that.

    And Lois is an iconic female character in his mythos, and his main love interest like it or not and I hope it never changes if a writers wants to be true to the character and his mythos.
    You said “abandon humanity and hook up Wonder Woman“. What exactly does that mean?

    He was raised as... but still isn’t “one of us”. He doesn’t have to try to be one of us either. Which was something that was brought up of him knowing the difference to “blend in”. He is a complexed character, however, far too often that is forgotten and writers try to simplify him.

    What’s true to Superman as a character isn’t about who he is shipped with, but what he represents, stands for, the motivations, and how he resonates with the world of today.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Not really, superman would still be "only human" even if he was raised by apes.Furthermore, there are versions that are just orphans.As said, max fleischer superman was never reclaimed by the kents. He lived out his life as an orphan, it would seem.
    In most Superman versions, he was raised by the Kents. That's all.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    You said “abandon humanity and hook up Wonder Woman“. What exactly does that mean?

    He was raised as... but still isn’t “one of us”. He doesn’t have to try to be one of us either. Which was something that was brought up of him knowing the difference to “blend in”. He is a complexed character, however, far too often that is forgotten and writers try to simplify him.

    What’s true to Superman as a character isn’t about who he is shipped with, but what he represents, stands for, the motivations, and how he resonates with the world of today.
    "I grew up in Kansas. I'm American as it gets." See, I can do that too.

    You don't have to like it, but he was raised as a human. He feels like one. I only mentioned Superman hooking up with Wonder Woman because it seems that's all some of you care about. I don't get the sense you appreciate Lois Lane, who is a very important part of the Superman mythos.

    We have to agree to disagree. I don't think Superman has been destroyed or become irrelevant. He just needs stories that show how inspirational he can be and for people to root for him more. The thread is called "Kal-El/Superman/Clark Kent Appreciation" so let's go back to that.


    I like this. Superman in space helping others. But he needs the red boots, though.

    Last edited by stargazer01; 05-11-2020 at 04:36 PM.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Senator Dick Durbin on Twitter:

    "Even Superman understands that wearing a mask is a small, but important effort we can all make to help protect the essential workers who are risking their health & safety every day to keep our nation running."

    https://twitter.com/SenatorDurbin/st...58123965616134


    Superman as a symbol of kindness and understanding.


  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    In most Superman versions, he was raised by the Kents. That's all.

    "I grew up in Kansas. I'm American as it gets." See, I can do that too.

    You don't have to like it, but he was raised as a human. He feels like one. I only mentioned Superman hooking up with Wonder Woman because it seems that's all some of you care about. I don't get the sense you appreciate Lois Lane, who is a very important part of the Superman mythos.

    We have to agree to disagree. I don't think Superman has been destroyed or become irrelevant. He just needs stories that show how inspirational he can be and for people to root for him more. The thread is called "Kal-El/Superman/Clark Kent Appreciation" so let's go back to that.
    Never said I didn’t like it. But it’s more complexity to him than just being raised as human. He is an alien, a refugee, more Moses than space Jesus. He is still an outsider.

    I never brought up shipping. I was making a point and bringing up a topic of Superman’s individual character. So I’m not understanding still why Diana had to be brought up and indirectly insulted as a character. I don’t have to agree with all aspects of any character’s myth. That doesn’t make me any less a fan of the main character or don’t have a right to voice my POV.

    The bold.... again proving my point. So not sure why this was even argued. The same thing is being said just in a different way.

  12. #72
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I like this. Superman in space helping others. But he needs the red boots, though.
    The all blue was too good for this world.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  13. #73
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    In most Superman versions, he was raised by the Kents. That's all.

    "I grew up in Kansas. I'm American as it gets." See, I can do that too.

    You don't have to like it, but he was raised as a human. He feels like one.
    It doesn't matter, you said superman's "humanity" came from kents. Nope! Kryptonian are "only human" from the get go. Furthermore, he wasn't raised as a human. He was raised as an "alien" or "god" amongst people that saw him as such. None, treated him as a human. Clark lived a life where he had to hide who he is truly inside, because people will fear him.Does that sound like being raised as one of the "human"? Does it look like he feel right at home and human? Nope! "for the man who has everything" would like to be put forth as evidence tonthe contrary. He consider's living in a dreamworld, than the real one. See, you are basically proving @lovestar's point by removing the conflict that is superman-the man of two worlds.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    My issue with the human thing is just that Superman's understanding of it was a very abstract one. His idea of being a human being is going to work and getting married. Meanwhile the actual human race has quarreled with each other for eons over ethnicity, land, or ideology which Superman himself at one point use to intervene in.

    Superman's understanding of humanity is a less comical version of Zim's understanding from Invader Zim.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  15. #75
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    My issue with the human thing is just that Superman's understanding of it was a very abstract one. His idea of being a human being is going to work and getting married. Meanwhile the actual human race has quarreled with each other for eons over ethnicity, land, or ideology which Superman himself at one point use to intervene in.

    Superman's understanding of humanity is a less comical version of Zim's understanding from Invader Zim.
    Or it just means that not everyone's human experience is the same as others.

    No two persons have the same relationship with their heritage.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •