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  1. #46
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I agree. As much as I appreciate him being back in his physical prime, I don't think he needs to be around absolutely all the time (maybe every couple arcs or so). I like the idea that he has his own stuff to do and that he's not simply waiting for Diana to finish up beating up a monster to make time for him. I more like the idea that they have to make time for each other because of the busy schedules they both have (he being a spy and her being a superhero).

    I also dislike the idea of him feeling insecure about his place in the world due to the presence of superheroes. If it were up to me to characterize Steve, I'd have him simply accept it as fact - simply a new facet of his job that he has to adapt to. That's it. He knows who he is and his place in the world and superheroes are simply a new wrinkle to that, nothing more.

    And I think that's why a woman as impressive as WW would fall for a man like that.
    This right here. Confidence is key, as is having his own thing to do.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In the golden age Steve had a sister and nieces would do stuff outside of the military. Why not being that back. Or something interesting about his past. He joined the military to see the world. Maybe he learned a few times like cooking or other things

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In the golden age Steve had a sister and nieces would do stuff outside of the military. Why not being that back. Or something interesting about his past. He joined the military to see the world. Maybe he learned a few times like cooking or other things
    Think if you want to build up Steve's family or past you'd have to ask what it contributes to the story and their characters. Diana Trevor was a rather a convoluted way to explain why Diana is named "Diana" and her costume colors but it least informed how Post-Crisis Steve came to be as a person.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. I mean it adds more to Steve just being a military man. Another thing about being back is Transformation Island. It's now in the rebirth as a military but it's been a mythical island. It should stay that way. Also, how do you all feel about Jumpa actually coming in the man's world?

  5. #50
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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  6. #51
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I would see writers experiment with what kind of man, Steve Trevor is.

    In the 2017 movie, he said, in consideration of fighting tyranny in World War I, ..that he tried to do nothing. That got me thinking what sort of man, at that time, would have been in a position to even consider doing nothing ..or staying out of harm's way. I imagined that he might have been born into a family possessed of sufficient political power to keep him out of enlistment in America's armed forces. I thought it was interesting that this man chose to be 'Steve Trevor', if that's even his real name, as much as Diana chose to be Wonder Woman, ..and what Diana thought of that.

    Might the modern Steve have be a guy from an unscrupulous wealthy family, like the Luthors, Brilyants or the Randolphs, who has decided he needs to get away from them ..to save his own life? Maybe, Steve needs to get away from whom he becomes, with or through them, because no good will come of it, and loving Diana becomes a way out.

    Truthfully, I like the idea that Steve Trevor is/was a man, who, for whatever reason, was content to let the world drop into an abyss - who didn't believe in angels - prior to meeting Diana and waking up on her island. While it has always annoyed me..."Angel, this...angel, that," ..I have often wondered why he so desperately needs to believe in angels ..or wonder-women. The challenge for a good writer is to tell us how he came to be that way...

    What kind of man, he is, at his core, and why Diana is falling in love with him. Steve Trevor needs a hint more depth, I think.

    Furthermore, I would find the Stiana thing much more appealing, if Diana and Steve were falling in love and continued the falling in and out of love, after her leaving the Island, ..than the bland, outdated marriage-without-a-license thing, we've been saddled with, since the Golden Age. Presently, I find Steve and Diana rather boring and am often left asking myself why they are together, beyond the dime-store romantic prospects of the narrative, ..which, for my dime, are never realized.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 10-04-2020 at 10:21 AM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    This is why I like the idea of what religion is Steve. And other things. We have the fact, Steve, as siblings and nieces

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    I would see writers experiment with what kind of man, Steve Trevor is.

    In the 2017 movie, he said, in consideration of fighting tyranny in World War I, ..that he tried to do nothing. That got me thinking what sort of man, at that time, would have been in a position to even consider doing nothing ..or staying out of harm's way. I imagined that he might have been born into a family possessed of sufficient political power to keep him out of enlistment in America's armed forces. I thought it was interesting that this man chose to be 'Steve Trevor', if that's even his real name, as much as Diana chose to be Wonder Woman, ..and what Diana thought of that.

    Might the modern Steve have be a guy from an unscrupulous wealthy family, like the Luthors, Brilyants or the Randolphs, who has decided he needs to get away from them ..to save his own life? Maybe, Steve needs to get away from whom he becomes, with or through them, because no good will come of it, and loving Diana becomes a way out.

    Truthfully, I like the idea that Steve Trevor is/was a man, who, for whatever reason, was content to let the world drop into an abyss - who didn't believe in angels - prior to meeting Diana and waking up on her island. While it has always annoyed me..."Angel, this...angel, that," ..I have often wondered why he so desperately needs to believe in angels ..or wonder-women. The challenge for a good writer is to tell us how he came to be that way...

    What kind of man, he is, at his core, and why Diana is falling in love with him. Steve Trevor needs a hint more depth, I think.

    Furthermore, I would find the Stiana thing much more appealing, if Diana and Steve were falling in love and continued the falling in and out of love, after her leaving the Island, ..than the bland, outdated marriage-without-a-license thing, we've been saddled with, since the Golden Age. Presently, I find Steve and Diana rather boring and am often left asking myself why they are together, beyond the dime-store romantic prospects of the narrative, ..which, for my dime, are never realized.
    Steve's initial unwillingness to fight in WW1 is probably more representative of it wasn't a popular war and American entry into the conflict was fairly polarizing domestically.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    In the 2017 movie, he said, in consideration of fighting tyranny in World War I, ..that he tried to do nothing. That got me thinking what sort of man, at that time, would have been in a position to even consider doing nothing ..or staying out of harm's way. I imagined that he might have been born into a family possessed of sufficient political power to keep him out of enlistment in America's armed forces. I thought it was interesting that this man chose to be 'Steve Trevor', if that's even his real name, as much as Diana chose to be Wonder Woman, ..and what Diana thought of that.
    I looked up the script, and what Steve says is nothing about fighting tyranny. His words are:

    I don't think "want" is the word. I guess I gotta try. My father told me once, he said, "If you see something "you can either do nothing, or you can do something." And I already tried "nothing."
    This is extremely open-ended, but I think that it paints movie Steve as a person who struggles between his idealistic and his cynical sides, and with Diana as an example he manages to evolve into altruism—which nicely mirrors Diana's own path in the movie.

    And the First World War was not about fighting tyranny. Sure, there were a lot of propaganda going that way against Germany, but none of the European warring nations were particularly democratic by today's standards. All of them were developing some pieces of modern democracy, but those were all severely limited in various ways, even France's which arguably had come the furthest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Might the modern Steve have be a guy from an unscrupulous wealthy family, like the Luthors, Brilyants or the Randolphs, who has decided he needs to get away from them ..to save his own life? Maybe, Steve needs to get away from whom he becomes, with or through them, because no good will come of it, and loving Diana becomes a way out.
    I'm not sure I like Steve having any special origin. They are far too common in superhero comics, and I think Steve makes more sense as an everyman hero. Now, I agree that Steve needs to get away from what he has become, or perhaps rather what he is in danger of becoming, and Diana is the example he needs.

    Which is part of why I like giving Steve a character arc where he is in the US military when he meets Diana, but leaves some time after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    What kind of man, he is, at his core, and why Diana is falling in love with him. Steve Trevor needs a hint more depth, I think.
    Exactly. That's what the movie managed so beautifully.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #55
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    I'm currently reading 70s Wonder Woman comics. When Steve comes back from the dead as Steve Howard, the hate Steve gets in the letters column is very similar to comments you still read about him here.
    I find that era a little frustrating as I was interested in the new dynamic where Steve and Diana are a closer couple than ever, he came back from the dead knowing her secret identity - and frustratingly they have yet to have any discussion on that at all - and the book shifts to being about the WW2 Earth 2 Wonder Woman to tie into the tv series. I will be reading the concurrent JLA omnibus soon, hopefully Diana at least gets good focus over there. I know within a year or so the book switches back to Earth 1, which I'm looking forward to. To be fair the Earth 2 stories aren't bad, I just was more invested in the stories that were going on back on Earth 1 as they were just starting to break new ground with Steve and Diana. I know that era's Steve doesn't last too long as it is before he's killed off again and a couple of years later Aphrodite basically kidnaps an AU Steve and messes with his and Diana's memories to make him fit into Earth 1.
    The comic depicts Earth 2 Steve with brown hair and Earth 2 Hippolyta as blonde. Of course letter writers complained about that, and the editorial response was basically to complain about the complaints, and say they didn't want to alienate new readers coming from the tv series.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I'm currently reading 70s Wonder Woman comics. When Steve comes back from the dead as Steve Howard, the hate Steve gets in the letters column is very similar to comments you still read about him here.
    I find that era a little frustrating as I was interested in the new dynamic where Steve and Diana are a closer couple than ever, he came back from the dead knowing her secret identity - and frustratingly they have yet to have any discussion on that at all - and the book shifts to being about the WW2 Earth 2 Wonder Woman to tie into the tv series. I will be reading the concurrent JLA omnibus soon, hopefully Diana at least gets good focus over there. I know within a year or so the book switches back to Earth 1, which I'm looking forward to. To be fair the Earth 2 stories aren't bad, I just was more invested in the stories that were going on back on Earth 1 as they were just starting to break new ground with Steve and Diana. I know that era's Steve doesn't last too long as it is before he's killed off again and a couple of years later Aphrodite basically kidnaps an AU Steve and messes with his and Diana's memories to make him fit into Earth 1.
    The comic depicts Earth 2 Steve with brown hair and Earth 2 Hippolyta as blonde. Of course letter writers complained about that, and the editorial response was basically to complain about the complaints, and say they didn't want to alienate new readers coming from the tv series.
    Hmm, pre-Crisis Steve gives most major superheroes a run for their money in the death-resurrection cycle.

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean despite being fully human. I often wonder if Steve should get his own bracelets or something.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    I just realized that Steve hasn't been around in the WW book for almost a year at this point and I can't say I miss him. I barely even noticed. Maybe a new love interest isn't such a bad idea after all.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It never goes well with a new love interest. I mean Perez made it impossible for him to appear for a very long time. It makes me feel there is no reason for him at all. I mean we know a relationship will only be with Batman but that's not a lasting relationship. We have to get someone to make Steve into an actual character. What is Steve and who is Steve
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 10-07-2020 at 09:57 PM.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    It never goes well with a new love interest. I mean Perez made it impossible for him to appear for a very long time. It makes me feel there is no reason for him at all. I mean we know a relationship will only be with Batman but that's not a lasting relationship. We have to get someone to make Steve into an actual character. What is Steve and who is Steve
    Every major-ish love interest she had was a Steve stand-in (Rama was the only exception), that's why it never went well.

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