Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[MaximoffTrash]

Man, they just dropped that whole thing, too. Were there D'Bari off-world? Is there a small population of D'Bari 'in exile' living on other Shiar worlds, cursing Jean Grey's name? Is there a death-cult that worships entities like Galactus, the Celestials and the Phoenix, and considers their coming to be a holy cleansing that judges and culls worlds based on some divine criteria, and considers survivors (like any D'Bari or Skrull survivors of the destruction of their homeworlds) to be unholy abominations that must be cleansed? Sometimes when folks die, there's a 'psychic death-scream,' such as when Alderaan blowed up in Star Wars, was there one when D'Bari blew up, and did perhaps awaken someone far away to vast psychic powers, their head ringing with the last moments of fear, pain and confusion of eleventy billion asparagus people? And do they now want to find that woman they saw, wreathed in fire, laughing in their heads as they all died, and make her suffer?

So much left lying on the table.

Same with Wanda and the Decimation. Regardless of whether or not she *is* responsible or culpable or blame-able for what happened, what about the mutants affected? Surely there are some who hate her. Surely, and we've seen them many times in the past, there were mutants who *hated* their mutations, and open no longer being deformed freaks with no kewl superpowers, they could again have lives and jobs and lovers and families, and they might *thank* Wanda (which she'd find horribly awkward, since she doesn't really seem to think she was really responsible anyway...), or, worse, after the 'un-Decimation,' they might have *reverted* to being a smelly tentacled slime-freak that has to be kept damp or their skin cracks, and has the amazing mutant power to constantly drool copious amounts of paralyzing phlegm, and be furious that *once again* their entire life has been stolen away by this mutant crap, which *did not* give them supermodel good looks and the power to fly.

Yes, it was an ugly stupid story that ignored all previous continuity about how Wanda's powers worked, and used her as a deus ex machina. But it happened, and better writers have come along and kludgily tried to 'fix' it (that 'Life Force' thing). Now, moving forward, some actual *storytelling* could be salvaged from this pig's ear. There could be growth. Character development. Maybe some drama. Not just Wanda defensively saying, 'Why did there need to be so many mutants anyway?' or something, just, apparently, to make X-fans hate her even more.

Yeah, whenever there is a "mutant cure" plotlines, it always got shut down due to the producers being shady and stuff.
And they never dare to take another angle, or even let those more unfortunate mutant question the motives of X-Men or other mutant groups that opposed such a cure.
Because in their eyes, it could very well be like "the upper class elites trying to force their 'mutant and proud' narrative on us and keep us in a the status quo, and never think for ourselves and make things better for ourselves." Sure not everyone with beneficial mutations are necessarily "upper class", but they and their organization more or less represent mutants and their attitude.
There are also another question regarding "should mutants always be anology for minorities in real world"? What about the elite upper class like Hellfire club members? Why can't they be like the more shady ones in real life? The kind that exploit their workers under a false "mutants united" narrative while they essentially feed off a mutant slave labor and such.

[MaximoffTrash]

Kind of makes you wonder what the heck was going on in their personal lives! Were they having troubled getting laid and wanted to indulge in sexual fantasies on the printed page? My guess is a definite YES.

Well, I wouldn't assume their personal life, I mean fetishes are fetishes, they came into existence for all kinds of reason.
It might not even be their inner thoughts, but more like the evil aura of early 90s telling them to do so, yuuuup.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Man, they just dropped that whole thing, too. Were there D'Bari off-world? Is there a small population of D'Bari 'in exile' living on other Shiar worlds, cursing Jean Grey's name? Is there a death-cult that worships entities like Galactus, the Celestials and the Phoenix, and considers their coming to be a holy cleansing that judges and culls worlds based on some divine criteria, and considers survivors (like any D'Bari or Skrull survivors of the destruction of their homeworlds) to be unholy abominations that must be cleansed? Sometimes when folks die, there's a 'psychic death-scream,' such as when Alderaan blowed up in Star Wars, was there one when D'Bari blew up, and did perhaps awaken someone far away to vast psychic powers, their head ringing with the last moments of fear, pain and confusion of eleventy billion asparagus people? And do they now want to find that woman they saw, wreathed in fire, laughing in their heads as they all died, and make her suffer?

So much left lying on the table.

Those aren't loose ends, that story is simply over. For all and intents and purposes the D'Barri are extinct.

Same with Wanda and the Decimation. Regardless of whether or not she *is* responsible or culpable or blame-able for what happened, what about the mutants affected? Surely there are some who hate her. Surely, and we've seen them many times in the past, there were mutants who *hated* their mutations, and open no longer being deformed freaks with no kewl superpowers, they could again have lives and jobs and lovers and families, and they might *thank* Wanda (which she'd find horribly awkward, since she doesn't really seem to think she was really responsible anyway...), or, worse, after the 'un-Decimation,' they might have *reverted* to being a smelly tentacled slime-freak that has to be kept damp or their skin cracks, and has the amazing mutant power to constantly drool copious amounts of paralyzing phlegm, and be furious that *once again* their entire life has been stolen away by this mutant crap, which *did not* give them supermodel good looks and the power to fly.

There have been repercussions but it's been muted since Wanda being responsible was covered up by everyone know who what happened. We know there are mutant who hate her, like Rogue and Exodus. I'd like to see the positive aspects of M_Day explored like you're suggesting and the negative affects of bringing mutants back should be explored. I remember in X-men Blue with the Mothervine someone was activated as a mutant and they became this deformed lumbering giant who was confused and didn't like it, they asked for help - someone said to make peace with it and that was it. No wanting to recruit them into the X-men or teach them how to use their powers or get their lives together, nothing. Hadn't thought of that, nice catch.

Yes, it was an ugly stupid story that ignored all previous continuity about how Wanda's powers worked, and used her as a deus ex machina. But it happened, and better writers have come along and kludgily tried to 'fix' it (that 'Life Force' thing). Now, moving forward, some actual *storytelling* could be salvaged from this pig's ear. There could be growth. Character development. Maybe some drama.

This would be great.

Not just Wanda defensively saying, 'Why did there need to be so many mutants anyway?' or something, just, apparently, to make X-fans hate her even more.

Except that's not all she's done. Every time she tried to make peace with the X-men or apologise it's been thrown in her face. Including peacefully surrendering herself to a mob of X-men intent on killing her than and there. Those X-fans had no interest in doing anything else, and probably had it in for Wanda before M-day. M-Day's just an excuse.

[leokearon]

They didn't talk to me, not until after the crossover was already under way, and they realized I was working in the offices. At which point they realized it wasn't a fan suggestion, and decided they should credit and pay me.

But I didn't pitch it, I didn't approve it, I didn't consult on it -- it was an idea I'd come up with for fun back when I first heard the news they were killing off Jean due to a plotting mistake, and I told Roger Stern about it a few years later, just as part of a casual conversation.

Roger told John Byrne, John told Bob Layton, and John, Roger and Bob pitched it to Jim Shooter. I hadn't thought about it since the conversation with Roger, so the first I heard of it was when Bob Layton (who I'd never met before, so I didn't know who he was) came up behind me in the Bullpen and said, "So, I hear I've got you to thank for having Jean back!"

I think my response was, "Huh?"

kdb

Cool, thanks for clearing it up and visiting Wanda's appreciation thread

[leokearon]

I totally understand that argument. But that's why I agreed with your earlier comment that perhaps it would have been better for Jean Grey's and Hank Pym's characters to die. End their existences as "tragic heroes" Darth Vader-style. They could say they've made a lot of mistakes and done a lot of things they're not proud of, but let them by their last (benign) acts try to make up for them. Remember how Darth Vader died peacefully in Luke Skywalker's arms at the end, knowing that his son forgave him? I think it would be nice if Jean Grey and Hank Pym had those moments with Cyclops and the Wasp respectively. Sure, redemptions of tragic heroes is a pretty big cliché in itself, but many people will continue to find it moving all the same. And then there would be no need for redemption for those characters because they'd be gone. I would love for Marvel Comics to do that. Instead of dredging up old grievances and throwing people's past transgressions in their faces for fake drama. I think many readers would be receptive to those storylines. I know I would.

And on another note, judging from reading the posts on these threads, people here are just DYING for more funnier superheroes AND supervillains who don't take themselves so seriously. Like you said earlier, comic books and comic book movies should be FUN. Some of the posters on these boards are flat-out hilarious! Marvel should hire them. I think if there is no humor in the comics, then there's no signs of life in them. I think Feige and his team are geniuses for adopting such a funny formula for their MCU characters. Sure, sometimes the humor gets excessive and a lot of jokes don't land. But it grounds the characters by having them be aware of how ridiculous they really are.

The problem with heroes dying in heroic sacrifices is that Death is meaningless in comics. You could kill Hank of in the most noble and most fitting way possible and he will be resurrected in a year or two and the negative aspects will be brought up again.

[leokearon]

Except that's not all she's done. Every time she tried to make peace with the X-men or apologise it's been thrown in her face. Including peacefully surrendering herself to a mob of X-men intent on killing her than and there. Those X-fans had no interest in doing anything else, and probably had it in for Wanda before M-day. M-Day's just an excuse.

Yeah, they rejected Wanda's offer to help the depowered mutants and now they are doing a more gruesome version of what Wanda offered.

[GenericUsername]

Except that's not all she's done. Every time she tried to make peace with the X-men or apologise it's been thrown in her face. Including peacefully surrendering herself to a mob of X-men intent on killing her than and there. Those X-fans had no interest in doing anything else, and probably had it in for Wanda before M-day. M-Day's just an excuse.

I think this is key here. Because while I didn't see any hate for Wanda previous to M-Day, there was definite hate for the Avengers. So it might of just been hate for any Avenger type thing. And I agree, there is nothing that can be done that would make X-fans do anything besides hate Wanda and want her dead. So anything I want for Wanda, I want for herself and not to please people that were never her fans.

[Sutekh]

So anything I want for Wanda, I want for herself and not to please people that were never her fans.

Yes, to this. Sometimes I see characters get a 'revamp' to 'appeal to a new generation,' and, IMO, it never seems to attract this untapped horde of new comic fans just waiting around the corner to save the industry by throwing money at it, but only serves to alienate and annoy those comic book purchasers *who were already fans of this character.*

[Albert1981]

The problem with heroes dying in heroic sacrifices is that Death is meaningless in comics. You could kill Hank of in the most noble and most fitting way possible and he will be resurrected in a year or two and the negative aspects will be brought up again.

So true. I think writers and artists should be able to kill off characters PERMANENTLY in order to advance their stories WITHOUT worrying about some huge mega crossover event coming up. And they should be allowed to conclude those stories instead of dragging things on and on. I LOVE the idea of shared universes, but you've got to let each of the characters within them to have their own identities for heaven's sake! When you render death meaningless, you take away an essential element of heroism. What is the hero risking if his resurrection is guaranteed?

[Albert1981]

Well, I wouldn't assume their personal life, I mean fetishes are fetishes, they came into existence for all kinds of reason.
It might not even be their inner thoughts, but more like the evil aura of early 90s telling them to do so, yuuuup.

Maybe I went too far with the personal lives stuff, but I remember the early 90s. People had some really lousy hairstyles and fashion choices at that time. In that sense, that period is best forgotten. But to be honest, that era had the BEST dance music of all time, no question. Sporting events are STILL playing that stuff today because it's so good. Groove is in the Heart gets my heart pumping every time, dude! And you're talking to a die-hard country music fan.

[Albert1981]

Yes, to this. Sometimes I see characters get a 'revamp' to 'appeal to a new generation,' and, IMO, it never seems to attract this untapped horde of new comic fans just waiting around the corner to save the industry by throwing money at it, but only serves to alienate and annoy those comic book purchasers *who were already fans of this character.*

I think the industry is in a bit of jam here. They know it'll be an eventual financial dead end for them if they continue to appeal to an aging and dwindling fan base, but they need to get new readers on board and that is tricky because of continuity issues. I don't know how they'll be able to balance that. The movies and TV shows are certainly saving their bacon right now.

[Albert1981]

On an unrelated note, how were Wanda and Vision portrayed in their 1980s mini-series? I vaguely remember that Wanda was pretty horny and the two couldn't keep their hands off each other most of the time. And I think Pietro was in it. I hope the show goes down more of the comedy route, however. Because I think that will appeal to more viewers. I do recall the two of them fighting demons. As I said previously, I really wouldn't mind if people closely connected to Wanda and Vision turned up. I know people were upset about how Quicksilver and Ultron were portrayed in 2015. I think it would be cool if they "redeemed" themselves by making appearances here. I would hope Pietro and Ultron still stay "quippy" though. And they could introduce a whole new character: The household's toaster could function not only as a family appliance, but also so happen to be Vis's long-lost uncle. All joking aside, I'm pretty sure Pietro is coming back. Disney+ is absolutely amazing at keeping secrets. Ewan McGregor lied for FOUR years about returning as Obi-Wan Kenobi in his own Disney+ show. And Disney kept that under wraps beautifully. I fully expect ATJ would LIE about any potential appearance in Wandavision because of Marvel's notoriously stringent NDAs. If he came out and stated that he would appear (thus ruining the surprise), that would be unbelievably STUPID. My only question is will ATJ make merely a cameo appearance? Or something more substantial? I'm actually leaning towards the latter right now. I think people who are mad that Wanda didn't mention Pietro at all for the past five years are frankly DUMB. As long as 20th Century Fox was using their own Quicksilver for their films, it totally made sense for Wanda not to refer to Pietro at all. I don't understand how that's a complicated notion. Be logical, why would Wanda be part of her ideal fantasy world and NOT have her twin brother show up? It would make no sense. And when it comes to Marvel itself, both Paul Rudd and Brie Larson were EXTREMELY deceptive when they were asked if they were going to play Ant-Man and Captain Marvel respectively. Actors and actresses are PAID to lie for a living. So you can't take their statements at face value. And now that Disney owns the former Fox properties, I totally expect Quicksilver to come back. This show is weird. The more we learn about it, the less we know about it at the same time!

[leokearon]

So true. I think writers and artists should be able to kill off characters PERMANENTLY in order to advance their stories WITHOUT worrying about some huge mega crossover event coming up. And they should be allowed to conclude those stories instead of dragging things on and on. I LOVE the idea of shared universes, but you've got to let each of the characters within them to have their own identities for heaven's sake! When you render death meaningless, you take away an essential element of heroism. What is the hero risking if his resurrection is guaranteed?

Oh they can kill off a character permanently and intend for that to be the case, but the hugher ups and other writers will always have other ideas.

[Albert1981]

Oh they can kill off a character permanently and intend for that to be the case, but the hugher ups and other writers will always have other ideas.

That's pretty sad. The higher ups should lay down the law and say NO MORE REVIVALS!

[Albert1981]

Look, I know Joss Whedon's directing/writing was very divisive and the Age of Ultron was a polarizing film. I get it. But what do you think if Whedon had stayed on and did more movies? Clearly, Whedon wanted to play up the Maximoffs Eastern European (perhaps Romani roots). Hence the accents. He wanted to discuss (obliquely) about how the U.S. military can often cause a lot of harm in other countries overseas unintentionally. Instead of using the corny Brotherhood of Evil Mutants as part of their origin story, the Maximoffs worked with HYDRA and Ultron's armies. Whedon was clearly interested in the whole mind control hallucination thing as well when it pertained to Wanda. The MCU even lamentably made Wanda use the Hulk (one of my favorite characters) to murder people to prove her villainy (a fact which is almost forgotten today). And her part in inciting Tony Stark to create Ultron has ALSO largely been forgotten as well. Let's not also forget that whatever you think of ATJ's portrayal of Quicksilver, almost ALL comic book readers agree that it was the closest and most accurate portrayal to his comic book counterpart ever put on screen. And Wanda adopted a more Gothic look in Age of Ultron. So I don't think Whedon was just obsessed with quips and jokes, you know? He definitely had a VISION for Wanda. I think he wanted Pietro and Wanda to be seen as extremist zealots with a legitimate grievance against Stark Industries and the Avengers. But because of the brutal infighting between Perlmutter, Feige and Whedon himself, the execution was flawed.

The Russos, McFeely and Markus clearly disliked that vision. They de-emphasized Wanda's Eastern European roots and got rid of her accent. They gave her a wardrobe makeover. She became Americanized. And no references were made to HYDRA, her mind controlling the Avengers and her villainous past (I don't think Banner, Romanoff, Rhodey and Stark even hate her anymore). And questioning US military interventions abroad was replaced with questioning Avengers' actions in different parts of the world. The new writers and directors discussed Sokovia not as the Maximoffs' homeland, but as the place which brought about the Accords which tore the superheroes apart. They basically cut off Wanda emotionally from her place of birth. I know that this direction did stray a lot from Wanda's origins. But I agree it had to be done. To have Wanda remain a Gothic bitch with a chip on her shoulder against America would have made her a VERY unpopular character in my view. Her accent would have been too jarring. Her growing affection for Vis softened the rough edges of her personality and made her a really sympathetic figure. So even though Wanda became less comic book accurate as a character, she became more popular because of this new interpretation.

Now Matt Shakman, Jac Schaeffer and Megan McDonnell will be trying their hand at a NEW interpretation of Wanda. An even MORE Americanized one. And she will be funny. Again, I agree with Kevin Feige's decision here. Marvel hired several women and people of color to write the show to give it a different flavor. The most ideal, in my opinion, would be to have actual ROMANI writers working on it. But I just think under the current circumstances, it wouldn't be possible. I don't recall any Romani writers, male or female, who even wrote for Wanda in the comic books themselves (and she's clearly Romani in them). So to ask Marvel Studios to do the same would be asking too much. I'm certain Michael Waldron and Sam Raimi will have ANOTHER take on Wanda in Dr. Strange 2. I concur with Feige's decision to Americanize Wanda to the fullest extent. I believe it's the only way for her to regain her popularity in the comic books, even at the cost of neglecting her roots. And this still might not happen. But I think it's worth a try. I think when Dr. Doom enters the MCU, he might also become "Americanized" as well. His Eastern European Romani roots PROBABLY would be played down like Wanda's. Do you agree with my analysis when I say that to make Wanda more American is necessary for her to gain a wider following amongst a larger audience? I would like to know. I just think it's almost impossible for Marvel Comics to let Wanda receive "redemption for a so-called genocide" of mutants. How many war criminals do you know of who have received absolution?

I also think wherever you stand on the "whitewashing" debate when it concerns the Maximoff twins and turning the Vision into a British gentleman, Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany are seriously pouring their hearts and souls into their respective roles and doing their absolute best to make Wanda and Vision great in the movies and on television. I believe it's really unfair to force Olsen to speak with a Russian accent and for Bettany to speak in an American one when it would hamper their performances. I really admire their respect and dedication to the superheroes they are playing. They take their profession very seriously and I think that's absolutely wonderful. They are literally bringing Wanda and Vision to life on our screens through their passion and enthusiasm. And the work they have put in has clearly been incredible (especially with Bettany's make-up)! So let's give a big hand to the two of them as well!