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  1. #676
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Yeah, I’m just kinda sad about the “she must getter other heroes” stuff. They should let her do something on her own, especially, when it’s dealing with Chthon.
    I don't mind her getting back-up to face an elder god
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  2. #677
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    We really have to wait until June uhm

    Also Dr2 starts filming in may but with the corona virus around... I don't think this will start
    Depends on how bad the virus is by then. But it could have an affect like it is doing with Sam and Bucky
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  3. #678

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Yeah, I’m just kinda sad about the “she must getter other heroes” stuff. They should let her do something on her own, especially, when it’s dealing with Chthon.
    From the book description she's saving Doom from himself. So I don't think this is "other heroes stuff" because it's not exactly a Doom book either. It just has him on the cover. It's a mini story about the Darkhold. So it's the main focus. And Wanda is one of the characters (besides Doctor Strange and Agatha) who has the most experience with it.
    Last edited by GenericUsername; 03-11-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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  4. #679

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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Personally, I just want them to say Disassembled, HOM, etc was all the work of Chthon. That way it's all forgotten about like Jean causing Genocide.
    Yeah but I feel like now is too late to do all of that. Anything short of a reboot of the character will not erase things. People still will say that was tacked on to give her an excuse. Retcons don't usually fix things. They usually compound them. And Wanda is a character that has been retconned so much already. It's already true that it was the life force. And that wasn't enough. An additional cause is not gonna fix it. Remember, comics kept trying to fix Donna Troy with retcons and it just didn't work. It's best to just move on. It should just be buried like Avengers #200.
    Last edited by GenericUsername; 03-11-2020 at 12:09 PM.
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  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Personally, I just want them to say Disassembled, HOM, etc was all the work of Chthon. That way it's all forgotten about like Jean causing Genocide.
    Well, just my far-fetched fan theory.
    But the theme of genocide could well be connected to Darkhold.
    There is a page of Darkhold that recorded the genocide of Elder Gods by the hands of Atum, which can give people power to devour mystical/magical beings in Darkhold Pages from the Book of Sin.
    There is the question about "where all those energy go" at the end of HoM, what if Chthon tried to replicate that event? By consuming mutant powers just like how Atum devoured his kind.

  6. #681
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    While I wouldn’t mind forgetting about AD/HOM/Decination all together; odds are it’s something that the higher ups want ‘fixed’ before WandaVision comes out

  7. #682
    Fantastic Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    It's already canon that Doom manipulated her or whatever, we already forgot about it only the x fans are worried about it dragging her

    I think Marvel will ignore all of it or say she was mentally ill (cause she was)

    They need to move on, Wanda still an heroine and that's all that matters.

  8. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    It's already canon that Doom manipulated her or whatever, we already forgot about it only the x fans are worried about it dragging her

    I think Marvel will ignore all of it or say she was mentally ill (cause she was)

    They need to move on, Wanda still an heroine and that's all that matters.
    She wasn't mentally ill, she was possessed. Mental illness cannot be fixed by getting rid of an uber cosmic energy source.
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  9. #684

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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    While I wouldn’t mind forgetting about AD/HOM/Decination all together; odds are it’s something that the higher ups want ‘fixed’ before WandaVision comes out
    They can sure try to fix it, but with them having waited as long as they have, it might not matter. It'd be like when they kept trying to make Sam Wilson as a pimp seem better.
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  10. #685
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    They can sure try to fix it, but with them having waited as long as they have, it might not matter. It'd be like when they kept trying to make Sam Wilson as a pimp seem better.
    and then after many years; that was finally retconed away; if Sam can have that mess removed, so should Wanda
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  11. #686

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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    and then after many years; that was finally retconed away; if Sam can have that mess removed, so should Wanda
    They've removed that from Sam and brought it back before though. It was removed before Christopher Priest brought it back. Then it's gone again. Nothing is truly gone in comics. I'd say even if they rebooted, some writer could always come along and add something back in. That's the whole problem with that, is you have many different writers over a span of decades handling things. There's too many inconsistencies. And I don't believe in Wanda's case that anything will be enough to completely erase the damage. Not in the eyes of comics readers at the very least. Because you see the vitriol in threads about that even now.
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  12. #687
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    She wasn't mentally ill, she was possessed. Mental illness cannot be fixed by getting rid of an uber cosmic energy source.
    I’d argue she was mentally ill, because the Life Force alone doesn’t make one person go mad; we saw that when Doom absorbed it and he didn’t have a mental breakdown like Wanda. He just wanted to be a god. What made Wanda snap was not just the possession, but the entire circumstances surrounding it. The trauma of losing her children, her family issues with Pietro and Erik... There’s a reason why the most horrible things that she did happened after something triggered her (remembering her children, witnessing Pietro get murdered). She was definitely not in a healthy mental state when those things happened. The possession just amplified the problems she already had and made her lash out in the worst possible way.

    And her mental illness wasn’t fixed, as evidenced by what she said to Pietro on her solo book. She still has to deal with it everyday.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 03-12-2020 at 02:10 PM.

  13. #688
    Fantastic Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Maybe mentally ill wasn't the word but a Huge Breakdown then, from losing her childrens, all her past life (like being hunted) Her brother being crushed in front of her, and having that enormous power that can corrupt anyone like it did with Doom

  14. #689

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I’d argue she was mentally ill, because the Life Force alone doesn’t make one person go mad; we saw that when Doom absorbed it and he didn’t have a mental breakdown like Wanda. He just wanted to be a god. What made Wanda snap was not just the possession, but the entire circumstances surrounding it. The trauma of losing her children, her family issues with Pietro and Erik... There’s a reason why the most horrible things that she did happened after something triggered her (remembering her children, witnessing Pietro get murdered). She was definitely not in a healthy mental state when those things happened. The possession just amplified the problems she already had and made her lash out in the worst possible way.

    And her mental illness wasn’t fixed, as evidenced by what she said to Pietro on her solo book. She still has to deal with it everyday.
    Her book established she has depression. But depression doesn't make anyone commit an act of genocide. And it's been far established that most people with mental illnesses self harm. You have to be a violent person to begin with to attack others. And that's something that people who aren't mentally ill have done.

    I'd be very careful pushing that dangerous and false stereotype.

    Her interaction with Pietro wasn't anything to do with mental illness either. She just disagreed with him. Also something possible whether you are mentally ill or not.

    She's had a breakdown over her children and husband (anyone would). Which was partially to do with manipulations done by Immortus. And has depression. Psychosis was never diagnosed, never treated. And she's not going around attacking Wonderman, the other Avengers or depowering mutants. So she is back to herself. She's just no longer possessed.
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  15. #690
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Her book established she has depression. But depression doesn't make anyone commit an act of genocide. And it's been far established that most people with mental illnesses self harm. You have to be a violent person to begin with to attack others. And that's something that people who aren't mentally ill have done.

    I'd be very careful pushing that dangerous and false stereotype.

    Her interaction with Pietro wasn't anything to do with mental illness either. She just disagreed with him. Also something possible whether you are mentally ill or not.

    She's had a breakdown over her children and husband (anyone would). Which was partially to do with manipulations done by Immortus. And has depression. Psychosis was never diagnosed, never treated. And she's not going around attacking Wonderman, the other Avengers or depowering mutants. So she is back to herself. She's just no longer possessed.
    I wasn’t trying to say she was violent because of her mental issues. What I meant is there was an underlying problem, and the possession made her deal with that problem in an uncharacteristic way. So yes, you are correct that Wanda as her normal self wouldn’t do those things, but that doesn’t erase the underlying problem that was already there. Like I pointed out, Doctor Doom was possessed by the same force as Wanda, so why was he able to maintain his sanity when she couldn’t? She was obviously going through something that he wasn’t. I don’t remember when exactly she was specifically diagnosed with depression, and I prefer not to get into the diagnosing game here anyway ‘cause I’m definitely not qualified enough (and neither are most Marvel writers, honestly) to pin a specific illness/disease to a character, but my point stands: I do think Wanda was written as someone who was struggling with mental issues, specially during the AD/HOM period. Even if you wanna argue she had “just” depression, that’s still a mental health disorder, as far as I’m concerned, so I don’t see how that negates that she was mentally ill. I’m not saying it was all well written and positively represented (it definitely wasn’t with Bendis), but I do think that was the intention.

    As for her interaction with Pietro on her book: I remember she quite literally told him she wasn’t ok in the head and went on to describe some typical symptoms associated with mental health issues. If that wasn’t James Robinson trying to not so subtly tell us she was mentally troubled, I don’t know what it was.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 03-12-2020 at 05:25 PM.

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