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  1. #1996
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    You can be feminist and not a bra burner. You can be not conservative or on the cusp too. She was a part of the Lady Liberators. And much of her earlier time was in the 60s, when women's lib was a big issue. Of course she's had moments with that in mind.

    Most women are dressed more modest in modern comics to make up for a time where women weren't treated very well in comics. Mostly during the 90s.

    If Marvel had X-Men from the start, Wanda nor Pietro would really be anywhere. Wanda especially. I think the only reason Fox wanted to use Quicksilver was because things got heated between them and Marvel at the time. It was sort of a middle finger situation. There are so many mutants that those two would be among the last to get focus.
    I actually don't mind Wanda being conservative. It makes sense to me if she has maintained the values of the "old country" after moving to America. Like you said, variety is good. You can have heroes who are a bit more progressive and others who hold more traditional values fighting together for the benefit of humanity as you told me earlier. In a really divided and polarized world, I would like that. I don't think that's gonna happen, however.

    Yeah, I remember in the 90s when females in the Marvel Universe all looked and dressed like Victoria Secrets' models. As a kid that made me feel really uncomfortable. I guess I was really prudish back then. You're probably right about Quicksilver and Wanda though. They definitely had more mutants to work with. You brought up something about mutants and activism that got me thinking...

    I think mutant fans DO have a legitimate beef with Wanda NOT being involved in mutant issues. It's been said she is the most powerful mutant that there is. I feel that if you're such an important mutant based on power levels alone, you would have an obligation to help your fellow mutants who are less fortunate. Wanda was in a really enviable position of being a lifetime member of the Avengers and that definitely shielded her from discrimination against mutants. And I remember reading Wanda being really passionate against people who discriminated against Vision and she knew what it was like to be the victim of bigotry due to anti-Roma sentiments in Europe. So yes, I do think it wasn't a good look for Wanda to neglect the biggest civil rights struggle in the Marvel Universe despite being such influential mutant (being a daughter of Magneto). I'm sure you can understand why people think that there was an element of selfishness and self-loathing going on there, you know? That's why I'm REALLY happy that Wanda is no longer a mutant. It takes away the argument that she's not doing what she can to help mutants despite her power levels and her family lineage. Because I do think her being a mutant caused her a lot of pain and sorrow. That's why I'm sort of dreading her returning to the mutant fold again. I think if she does, I do feel she should do more to help mutants due to the reasons I listed above. And I also agree with Wiccan that Wanda might "die" in the future because as you said, there is no way for her to "redeem" herself because of previous transgressions. She's literally been accused of genocide, and how many war criminals do you know of have gotten "redemption" in the modern age? I think a lot of readers consider her to be Marvel's version of Pol Pot and Idi Amin. I personally hate the idea of bring back "dead" characters through multiverses, but I think maybe it's the best route Marvel should take at this point.

    Now I hope you don't bite my head off for making these statements. I'm still a big fan of Wanda and I think you know that.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 07-27-2020 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #1997
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Trust me, a lot of girls I know don't think I actually have a heart. :-) But thanks for the kind words and nice compliments. Perhaps exasperation is the more appropriate term to describe the sentiments of the posters of this thread. Generally speaking, I don't feel you guys are a particularly happy bunch. And there's good reason for that. It looks like Wanda has been pretty unhappy for a while in the comics. On screen this is very different. She looks like she's in a good place there. I hope it EVENTUALLY will rub off in the books.
    Oh No, Not at all Albert1981, Honestly I think we are one of the Best Fandoms on CBR, Yea it can get Very Technicall and seem unhappy but the Love and Care for Wanda as well as the Caring of the Community for Fellow Wanda Fans here on CBR is one of the Best on the Net, Trust Me I know, I have been here Since 2012! =)

    Yea this is an Unhappy Moment cause many did not want to go threw it, but it is said around here to let your true opinions threw on your Love and Concerns for Wanda and you will gain support from your fellow fans.

    Wanda has not been Really and Unhappy character either in the Comics, yea she had to go threw some hard things but Heck What Marvel Charcter in this last Decade has not.

    Really thanks to Stories Like the Final Uncanny Avengers, Wanda's Solo Series By James Robinsons, Avengers: No Surrender, Avengers: No Road Home, Doctor Strange, Star and others Wanda has being Doing Really Well in a Postive Manner, Been Some good and Epic Times in the Last Few Years!








    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  3. #1998
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Talking





    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  4. #1999
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Avengers: No Road Home #5!

    "These Writers Really Pay Tribute to How Powerful Scarlet Witch Is!"


    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  5. #2000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I actually don't mind Wanda being conservative. It makes sense to me if she has maintained the values of the "old country" after moving to America. Like you said, variety is good. You can have heroes who are a bit more progressive and others who hold more traditional values fighting together for the benefit of humanity as you told me earlier. In a really divided and polarized world, I would like that. I don't think that's gonna happen, however.

    Yeah, I remember in the 90s when females in the Marvel Universe all looked and dressed like Victoria Secrets' models. As a kid that made me feel really uncomfortable. I guess I was really prudish back then. You're probably right about Quicksilver and Wanda though. They definitely had more mutants to work with. You brought up something about mutants and activism that got me thinking...

    I think mutant fans DO have a legitimate beef with Wanda NOT being involved in mutant issues. It's been said she is the most powerful mutant that there is. I feel that if you're such an important mutant based on power levels alone, you would have an obligation to help your fellow mutants who are less fortunate. Wanda was in a really enviable position of being a lifetime member of the Avengers and that definitely shielded her from discrimination against mutants. And I remember reading Wanda being really passionate against people who discriminated against Vision and she knew what it was like to be the victim of bigotry due to anti-Roma sentiments in Europe. So yes, I do think it wasn't a good look for Wanda to neglect the biggest civil rights struggle in the Marvel Universe despite being such influential mutant (being a daughter of Magneto). I'm sure you can understand why people think that there was an element of selfishness and self-loathing going on there, you know? That's why I'm REALLY happy that Wanda is no longer a mutant. It takes away the argument that she's not doing what she can to help mutants despite her power levels and her family lineage. Because I do think her being a mutant caused her a lot of pain and sorrow. That's why I'm sort of dreading her returning to the mutant fold again. I think if she does, I do feel she should do more to help mutants due to the reasons I listed above. And I also agree with Wiccan that Wanda might "die" in the future because as you said, there is no way for her to "redeem" herself because of previous transgressions. She's literally been accused of genocide, and how many war criminals do you know of have gotten "redemption" in the modern age? I think a lot of readers consider her to be Marvel's version of Pol Pot and Idi Amin. I personally hate the idea of bring back "dead" characters through multiverses, but I think maybe it's the best route Marvel should take at this point.

    Now I hope you don't bite my head off for making these statements. I'm still a big fan of Wanda and I think you know that.
    It's just that she's not really conservative. She's modest.

    Wanda wasn't always the most powerful mutant or even one of them. There were so many Omega Mutants far more powerful than she is and still are. Franklin Richards being one of them. He can warp reality at will. Where Wanda can only do that when tapping into a power source, and only got that power up in the more modern era of comics. So the meat of her time as a mutant was spent just doing minor stuff that affected probabilities and some that were difference makers in fights. But nothing really earth shattering.

    It wasn't that she ignored it. She just always had something else going on. Her life has been busy and a struggle. She was off saving the world in other ways and has done so hundreds of times. Marvel just made a decision to have her rooted in the Avengers comics and not mutant affairs. So it at best is something not relevant. I think she needs just a reboot honestly. And Wanda was not always Romani. That was a retcon. So it wasn't always her coming from that perspective. That's something that developed slowly through the 70s and settled on in the 80s. But again, not a conscious effort on her part to ignore other bigotry. And to be honest with you, mutant bigotry is more about powers. It hardly reflects a real life group specifically, so it loses it's weight a bit. Not only that but a lot of the mutants being white and straight. It never sat well with me, because the allegory was very weak.

    And Wanda has died before. Even after M-day. She always comes back. Dying in comics is nothing. But she definitely doesn't deserve anymore time out of comics. Especially not to pay for a hack story. She's already had that enough with the 7 years gone after M-day, plus the 6 months during UA. She needs new stories. That's all she needs.
    Was Curlytop

  6. #2001

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Oh No, Not at all Albert1981, Honestly I think we are one of the Best Fandoms on CBR, Yea it can get Very Technicall and seem unhappy but the Love and Care for Wanda as well as the Caring of the Community for Fellow Wanda Fans here on CBR is one of the Best on the Net, Trust Me I know, I have been here Since 2012! =)

    Yea this is an Unhappy Moment cause many did not want to go threw it, but it is said around here to let your true opinions threw on your Love and Concerns for Wanda and you will gain support from your fellow fans.

    Wanda has not been Really and Unhappy character either in the Comics, yea she had to go threw some hard things but Heck What Marvel Charcter in this last Decade has not.

    Really thanks to Stories Like the Final Uncanny Avengers, Wanda's Solo Series By James Robinsons, Avengers: No Surrender, Avengers: No Road Home, Doctor Strange, Star and others Wanda has being Doing Really Well in a Postive Manner, Been Some good and Epic Times in the Last Few Years!








    I personally feel fortunate that Wanda is in some things (tv, movies, comics, games), even though she could be in comics more consistently. I only want the M-day stuff dropped. But it could be worse. We could all be Jack of Hearts fans.
    Was Curlytop

  7. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    I don't think she looked like Jean in that but i wish that costume would have lasted longer.

    Taking her out of Avengers for a while and have her develop in the mutant world would be ideal for her character and give some redemption.

    Retcon the retcon and make her Magneto's daughter again.
    And proceed to pour bunch of effort for a pointless and fruitless cause, that is.

  8. #2003
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post




    One of Wanda's best moments.
    Check out my Deviantart Page: http://leokearon.deviantart.com/

    Author of "The Saga of the Déise"

  9. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Oh No, Not at all Albert1981, Honestly I think we are one of the Best Fandoms on CBR, Yea it can get Very Technicall and seem unhappy but the Love and Care for Wanda as well as the Caring of the Community for Fellow Wanda Fans here on CBR is one of the Best on the Net, Trust Me I know, I have been here Since 2012! =)

    Yea this is an Unhappy Moment cause many did not want to go threw it, but it is said around here to let your true opinions threw on your Love and Concerns for Wanda and you will gain support from your fellow fans.

    Wanda has not been Really and Unhappy character either in the Comics, yea she had to go threw some hard things but Heck What Marvel Charcter in this last Decade has not.

    Really thanks to Stories Like the Final Uncanny Avengers, Wanda's Solo Series By James Robinsons, Avengers: No Surrender, Avengers: No Road Home, Doctor Strange, Star and others Wanda has being Doing Really Well in a Postive Manner, Been Some good and Epic Times in the Last Few Years!
    Couldn't have said it better CJ, we love Wanda, that's why we are here. We want the best for her, which hasn't been easy. But no matter what crap happens we and Wanda will always bounce back, no matter how long it takes
    Check out my Deviantart Page: http://leokearon.deviantart.com/

    Author of "The Saga of the Déise"

  10. #2005
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    This is an interesting book to get.

    Avengers/Doctor Strange: Rise Of The Darkhold
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/13...d-b31d6b1bfbee

    Dracula is the main villain and Doctor Strange comes off as the main hero. Wanda's ties to the Darkhold are included.

  11. #2006
    Fantastic Member Probability010's Avatar
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    Thank you CJStriker for your kind reply. Your unbeatable optimism is always a delight. Just with regards to two points:

    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    ...
    But Indeed I would not put it as eat your own words cause you just want the Best for Wanda and You hope for the Best.
    ...
    Maybe I used that phrase wrong, just to be clear, I was referring to that a few months ago I was absolutely convinced that Hickman means ill will towards Wanda. Now I am considering that he might, just might, mean well towards Wanda. Maybe all he did was setup a trap for people who hate Wanda, hahaha! For my trust in comic book writers (Marvel and DC alike), my default setting is zero. It takes stories that show respect to the characters to increase from there.


    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    ...
    It shows Wanda is not the uncaring character some might think she is, that when written about this subject she tries to make it right.
    ...
    Now here lies actually a point that took me a little while to realize. To me it was always clear that Wanda does show remorse over her part in M-Day (That there were other characters and forces involved, is usually not acknowledged at all). But someone who only deals superficially with her might not see that, and even less so someone who is set up to hate her. I went through the regarding thread for that particular X-Men title. I expected there Wanda to get ripped apart, as usual. But it wasn’t *that* bad, actually. So apparently it took this in an X-Men title, not an Avengers title, an X-Men title, for at least some X-Men Fans to recognize Wanda’s true feelings about this. A very few of them even seem to understand that due to out-of-Universe reasons there was no way what Wanda did could work. Because these years nothing good is allowed for the Mutants to happen. Nothing at all.

    Edit: Corrected: title, not tittle.
    Last edited by Probability010; 07-29-2020 at 04:18 AM.

  12. #2007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    This is an interesting book to get.

    Avengers/Doctor Strange: Rise Of The Darkhold
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/13...d-b31d6b1bfbee

    Dracula is the main villain and Doctor Strange comes off as the main hero. Wanda's ties to the Darkhold are included.
    Yeah this is an old story. I read it every Halloween.
    Was Curlytop

  13. #2008
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Yeah this is an old story. I read it every Halloween.
    Looks interesting. Is it one story or a bunch of semi related stories over the course of many years?
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  14. #2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Oh No, Not at all Albert1981, Honestly I think we are one of the Best Fandoms on CBR, Yea it can get Very Technicall and seem unhappy but the Love and Care for Wanda as well as the Caring of the Community for Fellow Wanda Fans here on CBR is one of the Best on the Net, Trust Me I know, I have been here Since 2012! =)

    Yea this is an Unhappy Moment cause many did not want to go threw it, but it is said around here to let your true opinions threw on your Love and Concerns for Wanda and you will gain support from your fellow fans.

    Wanda has not been Really and Unhappy character either in the Comics, yea she had to go threw some hard things but Heck What Marvel Charcter in this last Decade has not.

    Really thanks to Stories Like the Final Uncanny Avengers, Wanda's Solo Series By James Robinsons, Avengers: No Surrender, Avengers: No Road Home, Doctor Strange, Star and others Wanda has being Doing Really Well in a Postive Manner, Been Some good and Epic Times in the Last Few Years!
    Well, I'm glad you're such a trooper. It's nice for Wanda to have such jolly fans despite so many trying circumstances. I think it is a lot easier to be a Batman and/or Spider-Man fan. I feel supporters of Wanda are definitely gluttons for punishment sometimes.

  15. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    It's just that she's not really conservative. She's modest.

    Wanda wasn't always the most powerful mutant or even one of them. There were so many Omega Mutants far more powerful than she is and still are. Franklin Richards being one of them. He can warp reality at will. Where Wanda can only do that when tapping into a power source, and only got that power up in the more modern era of comics. So the meat of her time as a mutant was spent just doing minor stuff that affected probabilities and some that were difference makers in fights. But nothing really earth shattering.

    It wasn't that she ignored it. She just always had something else going on. Her life has been busy and a struggle. She was off saving the world in other ways and has done so hundreds of times. Marvel just made a decision to have her rooted in the Avengers comics and not mutant affairs. So it at best is something not relevant. I think she needs just a reboot honestly. And Wanda was not always Romani. That was a retcon. So it wasn't always her coming from that perspective. That's something that developed slowly through the 70s and settled on in the 80s. But again, not a conscious effort on her part to ignore other bigotry. And to be honest with you, mutant bigotry is more about powers. It hardly reflects a real life group specifically, so it loses it's weight a bit. Not only that but a lot of the mutants being white and straight. It never sat well with me, because the allegory was very weak.

    And Wanda has died before. Even after M-day. She always comes back. Dying in comics is nothing. But she definitely doesn't deserve anymore time out of comics. Especially not to pay for a hack story. She's already had that enough with the 7 years gone after M-day, plus the 6 months during UA. She needs new stories. That's all she needs.
    Wow! Thank you for explaining Wanda's history to me. It's as confusing and convoluted as ever. Her background almost makes no sense at this point. A reboot would definitely simplify things. And I also never got why mutants were so hated. So many non-mutants who looked "different" were treated like the heroes they were, but mutants that looked like supermodels were despised? It just never made sense to me. I hope Feige and company changes things up when they introduce them into the MCU.

    When I said Wanda was conservative, I didn't mean politically (which often means intolerant and bigoted these days). I meant, in MY opinion, that she held certain traditional values which were inherited from the "old country". I can't picture Wanda getting "knocked up". She would definitely demand a ring before she had kids in my view. And she would be appalled if she had daughters who dressed like "whores" and sons who were covered in tattoos and had multiple piercings. Which is why I think Wanda might not be too big into feminism. In her mini-series with Vision, didn't she represent the archetypal American housewife? It felt to me she was really enjoying the whole "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" thing. I know that statement is outdated as hell, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! But in the WandaVision series, I have a strong feeling Vision will be joining her in the kitchen a LOT.

    I personally LOVED Taika Waitit's original idea for a romcom starring Wanda and Vision: "She’s the uptight career woman who was too busy for love until it showed up in Infinity Stone-wielding android form, while Vision’s the man-child who wants her to relax and enjoy life in the world they helped save. It certainly sounds like an appropriate precursor to the relationship they forge in the comics—that is, until Waititi interrupts to add that they’re actually related." The problem with Vision being a man-child is that basically ALL the male superheroes in the MCU are manchildren. This would not be a new concept or an original idea. In all seriousness, I would actually prefer Wanda to take part in some "experimental" stories. She's a really mysterious character and she would fit right in them. It worked out really well for Vision!

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