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  1. #2206
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    Honestly, I just want this to stop. Screw the remaining 36 pages. So far, every page Hickman has written with Wanda has only increased the damage done to her. At first it “only” made her look incompetent. Now it makes her look like a complete moron, with Strange lessoning her like a little child. And I also get the vibe. Of course no talk about the Giga- screw-up Strange made with his resurrection in Las Vegas. Nono, he’s the man, he’s competent, the woman better stay at home cooking (And I say that 100% against the writer, not Strange, that’s not how his character was portrait in the recent years).

    I am not even interested in a “redemption arc” for Wanda, if it starts out belittling her that much. If I had the power to decide, I would order all copies of “Empyre: X-Men #4” to be burned, before I or anyone else can read them. I would take that gamble. If it continuous like this, Hickman for Wanda might become a Bendis 2.0.

    Just as a side note, it doesn’t mean nearly as much to me, but to me it’s also upsetting that in the last issue Magik is portrayed as incompetent as well. With her just picking up a powerful magic item (Wanda’s Staff) that she knows nothing about. The only thing missing was her saying in a numb voice: “Oo, what does dad dooo?”.
    Again the double standards of Marvel when it comes to their first and second stringers. (see Peter Parker Vs Hank Pym)
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  2. #2207
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfish View Post
    Blame Hickman. I can't recall when he's ever written a powerful female character well.
    Sue Storm...?

  3. #2208
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denkota View Post
    Also it's funny she didn't drag her useless good for nothing son's ass out there to help but then he seems more effeminate and useless than even her most times and probably would have messed up even worse than her..
    You tried it with this text vomit. Though Billy probably would have been a big help maybe Jericho to. Probably wouldn't have helped though King Billy learns from his mistakes after the Mother BS I doubt he's trying to reanimate the dead anytime soon.

  4. #2209
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    Honestly, I just want this to stop. Screw the remaining 36 pages. So far, every page Hickman has written with Wanda has only increased the damage done to her. At first it “only” made her look incompetent. Now it makes her look like a complete moron, with Strange lessoning her like a little child. And I also get the vibe. Of course no talk about the Giga- screw-up Strange made with his resurrection in Las Vegas. Nono, he’s the man, he’s competent, the woman better stay at home cooking (And I say that 100% against the writer, not Strange, that’s not how his character was portrait in the recent years).

    I am not even interested in a “redemption arc” for Wanda, if it starts out belittling her that much. If I had the power to decide, I would order all copies of “Empyre: X-Men #4” to be burned, before I or anyone else can read them. I would take that gamble. If it continuous like this, Hickman for Wanda might become a Bendis 2.0.
    Trust Me Probability010, I understand your post greatly and it speaks volumes more then you may ever know to me. Cause I have been doing this since late 2012 I both understand and am their with you in all the way on what you said and are compleletly justified for this frustaration.

    I hope my Views on Story finishing itself did not offend or put off any of my fellow fans, espically you Probability010, That is just my view on not just this but many situations that involves characters, Anime, Movies, Shows or Comics that I love and it has been a long-build up with deep reasons why I live by these mottos now.

    It is also in hopes that My Motto gives hope for those that are in pain with my Fellow Fans like You and many others I see here and in other fandoms too.

    I wish this story did not take place and I really wished Hickman did not pull this trigger, so your wish as well as others is greatly right.

    I just give my view as a way to help get threw these moments and to help find the best in all out of a darkness. I have learned in life in many aspects, espically after the last few months you have work with what life gives to you and I still fail at times in those regards too, but we all still try for the best out of it.

    Cause of that I still have hope things will work out cause I want the story to tell itself full until we get their. If it turns our Dark, the negative many are fearing then honestly Yes I will be wrong and we will cross that bridge together like we always do..........Together.

    So if it turns dark for her too then Hickman and others will have to answer for allot on why.

    But I have Hope that we are heading for a resoultion, it is Darkest before the Dawn moment.

    I hope that helps and indeed I am sorry for anything that might have come across as bad from my other post, I ment not to do that.
    Last edited by CJStriker; 08-14-2020 at 08:20 PM.
    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”

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  5. #2210
    Fantastic Member Probability010's Avatar
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    I just edited my part with Magik out, because I noticed that while not explicitly mentioned, there seems to be already some mind-control in play, which compels her to grab that staff. Regardless, she is possessed now, something that is very, very much overused for some characters.

  6. #2211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfish View Post
    Blame Hickman. I can't recall when he's ever written a powerful female character well.
    Hickman loves writing stories about "Top Men", Big Important Men, saying Big Important Things. Women don't figure much in his stories, wherein Big Important Men talk about Big Important Things. With some exceptions, the women stay in the background. Hickman knows his audience, and is pandering to the X-fandom by throwing them red meat (what populist politicians do to stoke up their supporters).

    Also, in Hickman's Avengers Wanda never showed up at all, not even mentioned in passing IIRC. That's actually important because it shows he has zero interest in her as a character.

    I try to picture Carol Danvers, Kamala Khan, Storm, America Chavez, Female Thor. Black Widow in those panels. There's no way they would allow a writer to portray them the way they have portrayed Wanda. I think a writer who attempted to do that to Carol or Kamala would never work at Marvel ever again.

    It's striking how Hickman's portrayal of Wanda completely ignores James Robinson and Jim Zub's work with the character, it seems to be very inspired by Bendis. Also, zombies...would Wanda really say "uh, duh, I don't know how that went wrong", she would surely have suspicions about Chthon shenanigans, given he's the co-creator (collab with his buddy Sagbata) of Zombies in the Marvel Universe.

    Maybe there's some twist and it's not Wanda talking to Strange, maybe it's going to be revealed to be Mystique. Because it sure seems like how a mutant would think or assume Wanda behaves.

    Another thing about this...maybe, (and I freely admit this is me being paranoid conspiracy theory mode) Hickman is throwing shade at Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness which, if one believes Rich Johnston's rumour-milling, the announcement of Wanda's prominence in that movie caught the comics division by surprise and led to shelving of plans to retcon Wanda back to being a mutant daughter of Magneto.

    If anything this increasingly proves why the retcon should stay in place; it won't lead to great stories (it didn't during the decades prior to it) it will lead to Wanda being used continuously, in perpituity, as a plot device for X-Men drama and of course the all-important Magneto flavoured man-pain.

  7. #2212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    Hickman loves writing stories about "Top Men", Big Important Men, saying Big Important Things. Women don't figure much in his stories, wherein Big Important Men talk about Big Important Things. With some exceptions, the women stay in the background. Hickman knows his audience, and is pandering to the X-fandom by throwing them red meat (what populist politicians do to stoke up their supporters).

    Also, in Hickman's Avengers Wanda never showed up at all, not even mentioned in passing IIRC. That's actually important because it shows he has zero interest in her as a character.

    I try to picture Carol Danvers, Kamala Khan, Storm, America Chavez, Female Thor. Black Widow in those panels. There's no way they would allow a writer to portray them the way they have portrayed Wanda. I think a writer who attempted to do that to Carol or Kamala would never work at Marvel ever again.

    It's striking how Hickman's portrayal of Wanda completely ignores James Robinson and Jim Zub's work with the character, it seems to be very inspired by Bendis. Also, zombies...would Wanda really say "uh, duh, I don't know how that went wrong", she would surely have suspicions about Chthon shenanigans, given he's the co-creator (collab with his buddy Sagbata) of Zombies in the Marvel Universe.

    Maybe there's some twist and it's not Wanda talking to Strange, maybe it's going to be revealed to be Mystique. Because it sure seems like how a mutant would think or assume Wanda behaves.

    Another thing about this...maybe, (and I freely admit this is me being paranoid conspiracy theory mode) Hickman is throwing shade at Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness which, if one believes Rich Johnston's rumour-milling, the announcement of Wanda's prominence in that movie caught the comics division by surprise and led to shelving of plans to retcon Wanda back to being a mutant daughter of Magneto.

    If anything this increasingly proves why the retcon should stay in place; it won't lead to great stories (it didn't during the decades prior to it) it will lead to Wanda being used continuously, in perpituity, as a plot device for X-Men drama and of course the all-important Magneto flavoured man-pain.
    This is written so perfectly. Kudos!
    Was Curlytop

  8. #2213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    Hickman loves writing stories about "Top Men", Big Important Men, saying Big Important Things. Women don't figure much in his stories, wherein Big Important Men talk about Big Important Things. With some exceptions, the women stay in the background. Hickman knows his audience, and is pandering to the X-fandom by throwing them red meat (what populist politicians do to stoke up their supporters).

    Also, in Hickman's Avengers Wanda never showed up at all, not even mentioned in passing IIRC. That's actually important because it shows he has zero interest in her as a character.

    I try to picture Carol Danvers, Kamala Khan, Storm, America Chavez, Female Thor. Black Widow in those panels. There's no way they would allow a writer to portray them the way they have portrayed Wanda. I think a writer who attempted to do that to Carol or Kamala would never work at Marvel ever again.

    It's striking how Hickman's portrayal of Wanda completely ignores James Robinson and Jim Zub's work with the character, it seems to be very inspired by Bendis. Also, zombies...would Wanda really say "uh, duh, I don't know how that went wrong", she would surely have suspicions about Chthon shenanigans, given he's the co-creator (collab with his buddy Sagbata) of Zombies in the Marvel Universe.

    Maybe there's some twist and it's not Wanda talking to Strange, maybe it's going to be revealed to be Mystique. Because it sure seems like how a mutant would think or assume Wanda behaves.

    Another thing about this...maybe, (and I freely admit this is me being paranoid conspiracy theory mode) Hickman is throwing shade at Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness which, if one believes Rich Johnston's rumour-milling, the announcement of Wanda's prominence in that movie caught the comics division by surprise and led to shelving of plans to retcon Wanda back to being a mutant daughter of Magneto.

    If anything this increasingly proves why the retcon should stay in place; it won't lead to great stories (it didn't during the decades prior to it) it will lead to Wanda being used continuously, in perpituity, as a plot device for X-Men drama and of course the all-important Magneto flavoured man-pain.
    Don't worry, I think at this point everyone of us has some form of paranoia mode.

  9. #2214
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    At this point the witch's son should be also interested in undoing the damage if it means so much to his mother but I guess he has been divorced from SW and they won't be interacting at all in the near future unless she and the vision make an appearance in the Empyre aftermath issue instead of it just being the two YA making gooey eyes at each other and making royal asses out of themselves. (Seriously Teddy being captured offstage shows how foolish his character is portrayed as in Empyre. He should have been alert against such attempts.)
    Last edited by Denkota; 08-14-2020 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #2215
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    They had a bunch of other mutants reality warpers who could fix the HoM disaster (Franklin, Legion, Mad Jim Jaspers when he was one), the writers just didn't care, the point was to have less mutants after all.

    This Empyre event kinda boring if u ask me so i'm ok with that (and i'm not saying this because Wanda ins't a main on it)

  11. #2216
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    Hickman loves writing stories about "Top Men", Big Important Men, saying Big Important Things. Women don't figure much in his stories, wherein Big Important Men talk about Big Important Things. With some exceptions, the women stay in the background. Hickman knows his audience, and is pandering to the X-fandom by throwing them red meat (what populist politicians do to stoke up their supporters).

    Also, in Hickman's Avengers Wanda never showed up at all, not even mentioned in passing IIRC. That's actually important because it shows he has zero interest in her as a character.

    I try to picture Carol Danvers, Kamala Khan, Storm, America Chavez, Female Thor. Black Widow in those panels. There's no way they would allow a writer to portray them the way they have portrayed Wanda. I think a writer who attempted to do that to Carol or Kamala would never work at Marvel ever again.

    It's striking how Hickman's portrayal of Wanda completely ignores James Robinson and Jim Zub's work with the character, it seems to be very inspired by Bendis. Also, zombies...would Wanda really say "uh, duh, I don't know how that went wrong", she would surely have suspicions about Chthon shenanigans, given he's the co-creator (collab with his buddy Sagbata) of Zombies in the Marvel Universe.

    Maybe there's some twist and it's not Wanda talking to Strange, maybe it's going to be revealed to be Mystique. Because it sure seems like how a mutant would think or assume Wanda behaves.

    Another thing about this...maybe, (and I freely admit this is me being paranoid conspiracy theory mode) Hickman is throwing shade at Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness which, if one believes Rich Johnston's rumour-milling, the announcement of Wanda's prominence in that movie caught the comics division by surprise and led to shelving of plans to retcon Wanda back to being a mutant daughter of Magneto.

    If anything this increasingly proves why the retcon should stay in place; it won't lead to great stories (it didn't during the decades prior to it) it will lead to Wanda being used continuously, in perpituity, as a plot device for X-Men drama and of course the all-important Magneto flavoured man-pain.
    Yeah we all have paranoid conspiracy theories about what could happen to our favourite Witch. My only hope is that Wanda is allowed to resurrect all the mutants, revealing that someone had interrupted the spell and therefore make a mockery of the X-Men's beloved Crucible, which Wanda should also have the change to call them out on.
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  12. #2217
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    They had a bunch of other mutants reality warpers who could fix the HoM disaster (Franklin, Legion, Mad Jim Jaspers when he was one), the writers just didn't care, the point was to have less mutants after all.

    This Empyre event kinda boring if u ask me so i'm ok with that (and i'm not saying this because Wanda ins't a main on it)
    Let's not forget both AVsX and Secret Wars should also have completely undone HOM, but again lazy writiers and editorial mandates
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  13. #2218
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Us when Wanda only appears in those two pages from the preview or she arrives to Genosha, destroys the staff and the next pages are the mutants being hostile towards her and curse her name for the stupid attempt that the writer made her do


  14. #2219
    Fantastic Member Probability010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Trust Me Probability010, I understand your post greatly and it speaks volumes more then you may ever know to me. Cause I have been doing this since late 2012 I both understand and am their with you in all the way on what you said and are compleletly justified for this frustaration.

    I hope my Views on Story finishing itself did not offend or put off any of my fellow fans, espically you Probability010, That is just my view on not just this but many situations that involves characters, Anime, Movies, Shows or Comics that I love and it has been a long-build up with deep reasons why I live by these mottos now.

    It is also in hopes that My Motto gives hope for those that are in pain with my Fellow Fans like You and many others I see here and in other fandoms too.

    I wish this story did not take place and I really wished Hickman did not pull this trigger, so your wish as well as others is greatly right.

    I just give my view as a way to help get threw these moments and to help find the best in all out of a darkness. I have learned in life in many aspects, espically after the last few months you have work with what life gives to you and I still fail at times in those regards too, but we all still try for the best out of it.

    Cause of that I still have hope things will work out cause I want the story to tell itself full until we get their. If it turns our Dark, the negative many are fearing then honestly Yes I will be wrong and we will cross that bridge together like we always do..........Together.

    So if it turns dark for her too then Hickman and others will have to answer for allot on why.

    But I have Hope that we are heading for a resoultion, it is Darkest before the Dawn moment.

    I hope that helps and indeed I am sorry for anything that might have come across as bad from my other post, I ment not to do that.
    It’s alright, of course you have all right in the world to be as optimistic as you wanna be, haha!

    I just like to remind everyone that after the first issue of that tie-in was out, I was willing to give Hickman the benefit of a doubt. But by now in my estimation the likelihood is approaching 100 % that all I / we will get for that is to be sucker-punched by Hickman. Everything Hickman has done so far, not just here but also in the previous X-men runs, indicates that he has no respect for Wanda’s character.

    And no matter what happens next, doesn’t change the fact that a lot of damage has been done already. Many X-Men fans are having the time of their live now, essentially celebrating that, with her bailing out of that Zombie-Debacle, they are proven right that Wanda is the most horrible person.

    A lot would need to happen just to make up for that. The only thing I could imagine is - what some others suggested - that Wanda, maybe with the help of Strange and / or Magik, completes the resurrection process. And then adding an explanation that Wanda and Strange needed a month preparation time, and assumed that with no one inhabiting that island and the gate being broken, they could just present the positive result, then

    But all that seems to much like wishful thinking to me, especially based on what we’ve seen so far. I will not force myself to be optimistic when all rationale appears to speak against it. But that is a decision everyone must make for him/herself. Of course you are right, the story is only over when its over. I guess at least we will not have to wait long, with the preview being out, I assume “Empyre: X-Men 4” comes out next week Wednesday?

  15. #2220
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Probability010 View Post
    It’s alright, of course you have all right in the world to be as optimistic as you wanna be, haha!

    I just like to remind everyone that after the first issue of that tie-in was out, I was willing to give Hickman the benefit of a doubt. But by now in my estimation the likelihood is approaching 100 % that all I / we will get for that is to be sucker-punched by Hickman. Everything Hickman has done so far, not just here but also in the previous X-men runs, indicates that he has no respect for Wanda’s character.

    And no matter what happens next, doesn’t change the fact that a lot of damage has been done already. Many X-Men fans are having the time of their live now, essentially celebrating that, with her bailing out of that Zombie-Debacle, they are proven right that Wanda is the most horrible person.

    A lot would need to happen just to make up for that. The only thing I could imagine is - what some others suggested - that Wanda, maybe with the help of Strange and / or Magik, completes the resurrection process. And then adding an explanation that Wanda and Strange needed a month preparation time, and assumed that with no one inhabiting that island and the gate being broken, they could just present the positive result, then

    But all that seems to much like wishful thinking to me, especially based on what we’ve seen so far. I will not force myself to be optimistic when all rationale appears to speak against it. But that is a decision everyone must make for him/herself. Of course you are right, the story is only over when its over. I guess at least we will not have to wait long, with the preview being out, I assume “Empyre: X-Men 4” comes out next week Wednesday?
    yeah, Empyre: X-Men 4 is out next week, so we can see whether Hickman has thrown Wanda out the bus or pulled her back at the last moment
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