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  1. #3046

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Dorm's description makes him feel Shuma-Gorath instead, I mean devouring Universes and all that.
    I kinda like how Stephen outwit Dorm instead of brute forcing his way, there is still chances to build up the Faltine lore in later DS movies, like along with the introduction of Clea and Umar.
    I hope so, but kind of discouraged by no mention of Clea yet in the Strange films.
    Was Curlytop

  2. #3047
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    But that's the problem with that. Because Doctor Strange is not Tony. They should not be interchangeable. That is a failure of establishing character types. Even comedy itself has the straight man/oaf comedy guy going all the way back to the earliest comedy routines. There is a lot of value in having different characters play off each other. It worked for Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.

    I do mind that Wanda is changed. When you have Shulkie coming in that was the fourth wall breaker. You also have Mantis who is pretty silly in this universe. Valkyrie who is also made into comedy relief. As the world expands and more female characters come in, the same that happened to the male characters would be true for female characters. They've only just started getting them into the universe in any sort of way. Black Panther movie, and GotG has created some relationships between women. But most don't even really communicate with each other.

    I don't know that Wanda and Vision are really rushed. They've only really just started dating. No marriage just yet. But hopefully that happens and is real. They will definitely get more development than movie couples, just based on the amount of time given to shows over movies.

    Also, want to add that Avengers lost some of their fun dynamic by excluding Janet Van Dyne and changing Hawkeye. The movies took out a lot of variety in the ranks.
    Yup, they are pretty much the female/male besties of Wanda.
    MCU Avengers have kinda everyone act like a senior to Wanda, some audience would say stuff like "proud mom Natasha" and things like that. Not that it's problemetic, but Wanda lacks some interactions on equal footing that's for sure.(It also doesn't help that Pietro is dead.)
    I don't know, have "dad Clint" is probably more family friendly than flirty bastard Clint, even though the latter is much more interesting.

  3. #3048
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Yup, they are pretty much the female/male besties of Wanda.
    MCU Avengers have kinda everyone act like a senior to Wanda, some audience would say stuff like "proud mom Natasha" and things like that. Not that it's problemetic, but Wanda lacks some interactions on equal footing that's for sure.(It also doesn't help that Pietro is dead.)
    I don't know, have "dad Clint" is probably more family friendly than flirty bastard Clint, even though the latter is much more interesting.
    To be honest we don't really get a lot of inter-team interaction among The Avengers in the movies.

  4. #3049

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest we don't really get a lot of inter-team interaction among The Avengers in the movies.
    You are right. It's very sparse. Hopefully future team films do better with it. They should take a page from Black Panther.
    Was Curlytop

  5. #3050
    Fantastic Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Linking Wanda and the mutants wouldn't be a good idea, but am I the only one who wants to see her interact with Illyana in Strange Academy (or another book involving sorcerers from the marvel universe) ?
    It would be really nice if Marvel's two most iconic witches could form a cordial relationship, or, hopefully, a friendship

  6. #3051

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    They for sure could still have that without Wanda being a mutant. So far all we've really gotten is them standing beside one another in Strange's books. I wanted the Midnight Sons team that was teased at the end of Damnation that had both Illyana and Wanda on it.
    Was Curlytop

  7. #3052
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    But that's the problem with that. Because Doctor Strange is not Tony. They should not be interchangeable. That is a failure of establishing character types. Even comedy itself has the straight man/oaf comedy guy going all the way back to the earliest comedy routines. There is a lot of value in having different characters play off each other. It worked for Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.

    I do mind that Wanda is changed. When you have Shulkie coming in that was the fourth wall breaker. You also have Mantis who is pretty silly in this universe. Valkyrie who is also made into comedy relief. As the world expands and more female characters come in, the same that happened to the male characters would be true for female characters. They've only just started getting them into the universe in any sort of way. Black Panther movie, and GotG has created some relationships between women. But most don't even really communicate with each other.

    I don't know that Wanda and Vision are really rushed. They've only really just started dating. No marriage just yet. But hopefully that happens and is real. They will definitely get more development than movie couples, just based on the amount of time given to shows over movies.

    Also, want to add that Avengers lost some of their fun dynamic by excluding Janet Van Dyne and changing Hawkeye. The movies took out a lot of variety in the ranks.
    Here is what I read on a website when it comes to Tony and Stephen in the MCU:

    "The films, Doctor Strange and Iron Man, have the most in common in terms of structure. Both stories follow a genius who is left physically impaired, irreparably changing their life. They repair themselves in the Middle East and find purpose by becoming a superhero.

    Not only that, Stark and Strange are also the most similar in terms of personality. They are arrogant geniuses who think they know better than everyone else. Although their injuries humbled them somewhat, they are still prone to making bold decisions without telling anyone and underestimating their friends and enemies.

    Okay, if the formula for Iron Man worked, it's not too hard to believe that Marvel would try it again. But because the franchise has earned a reputation for thinking out of the box, it's surprising they didn't try something a little more creative."

    I understand and agree with some of the above criticism, but I feel this formula of a flawed person who becomes a hero in spite of his shortcomings is pretty compelling and is wildly popular. I've literally heard websites wondering if Stephen Strange is the "new" Tony Stark? And I think if the MCU goes this route, Strange is gonna appear in a LOT of films (like Tony did). I thought the Hulk was great in his own movie, the first two Avengers films, and Ragnarok. But a lot of fans did not like how he became a dabbing taco-loving goofball by the time Endgame came out. And since this is a Wanda thread, I will mention that Vision's portrayals in the films were, from what I understand, widely panned as well. Like the Hulk, he started out really strong, but by Infinity War he was pretty much seen as probably the "weakest" Avenger of them all. I think the Russos tried to make him into a character who is willing to learn and interested in growing as a person, but in the superhero movie genre, I don't think a lot of audiences have got the patience for that kind of thing and think those traits are very BORING. So I don't blame Disney for pushing the Iron Man/Dr. Strange connection. Look, Marvel Studios has got a good thing going making so MANY male characters turn into loveable man-childs (Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Star-Lord, and Thor). It's not particularly creative, but Marvel Studios has tried other more "serious" approaches with dudes like Hawkeye, Vision, Hulk, Falcon and War Machine with not much success. I personally like Hawkeye as a reckless womanizer, but in the world of Disney there is no such thing as womanizing. So I get why they changed Hawkeye. I DON'T get how Marvel Studios used Janet Van Dyne, however. Her character literally initiates the ENTIRE plot for Ant-Man 2, but she basically appears in that movie for five minutes. Really anti-climatic.

    I suppose they will build on the whole Wanda and Vision romance in the upcoming show. As I've said before, I'm actually REALLY surprised that Disney is focusing SO much attention to this couple in a non-superhero context. I know it's based on source material that deals with life outside of superheroing, but I feel it's so tonally different from not just what the MCU has done before, but from what other superhero movies/shows have done previously as well. So the success of the trailers surprised me. And admit it, it probably surprised you too. I mean, I've often wondered who actually wants to see Vision change diapers?! I don't believe Wanda will be changed too dramatically. She'll just have a sitcom personality. Which I think is a good thing. I don't want to see her moping around. I can't believe that Wanda and Vision will do the whole family thing in the MCU before the Fantastic Four does.

    I also agree that the Odd Couple/Perfect Strangers/Two and a Half Men dynamics do work well in comedy. Even thought it wasn't particularly comedic, I think Iron Man and Captain America had a bit of that.
    Last edited by Albert1981; 10-25-2020 at 05:55 PM.

  8. #3053

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Here is what I read on a website when it comes to Tony and Stephen in the MCU:

    "The films, Doctor Strange and Iron Man, have the most in common in terms of structure. Both stories follow a genius who is left physically impaired, irreparably changing their life. They repair themselves in the Middle East and find purpose by becoming a superhero.

    Not only that, Stark and Strange are also the most similar in terms of personality. They are arrogant geniuses who think they know better than everyone else. Although their injuries humbled them somewhat, they are still prone to making bold decisions without telling anyone and underestimating their friends and enemies.

    Okay, if the formula for Iron Man worked, it's not too hard to believe that Marvel would try it again. But because the franchise has earned a reputation for thinking out of the box, it's surprising they didn't try something a little more creative."

    I understand and agree with some of the above criticism, but I feel this formula of a flawed person who becomes a hero in spite of his shortcomings is pretty compelling and is wildly popular. I've literally heard websites wondering if Stephen Strange is the "new" Tony Stark? And I think if the MCU goes this route, Strange is gonna appear in a LOT of films (like Tony did). I thought the Hulk was great in his own movie, the first two Avengers films, and Ragnarok. But a lot of fans did not like how he became a dabbing taco-loving goofball by the time Endgame came out. And since this is a Wanda thread, I will mention that Vision's portrayals in the films were, from what I understand, widely panned as well. Like the Hulk, he started out really strong, but by Infinity War he was pretty much seen as probably the "weakest" Avenger of them all. I think the Russos tried to make him into a character who is willing to learn and interested in growing as a person, but in the superhero movie genre, I don't think a lot of audiences have got the patience for that kind of thing and think those traits are very BORING. So I don't blame Disney for pushing the Iron Man/Dr. Strange connection. Look, Marvel Studios has got a good thing going making so MANY male characters turn into loveable man-childs (Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Star-Lord, and Thor). It's not particularly creative, but Marvel Studios has tried other more "serious" approaches with dudes like Hawkeye, Vision, Hulk, Falcon and War Machine with not much success. I personally like Hawkeye as a reckless womanizer, but in the world of Disney there is no such thing as womanizing. So I get why they changed Hawkeye. I DON'T get how Marvel Studios used Janet Van Dyne, however. Her character literally initiates the ENTIRE plot for Ant-Man 2, but she basically appears in that movie for five minutes. Really anti-climatic.

    I suppose they will build on the whole Wanda and Vision romance in the upcoming show. As I've said before, I'm actually REALLY surprised that Disney is focusing SO much attention to this couple in a non-superhero context. I know it's based on source material that deals with life outside of superheroing, but I feel it's so tonally different from not just what the MCU has done before, but from what other superhero movies/shows have done previously as well. So the success of the trailers surprised me. And admit it, it probably surprised you too. I mean, I've often wondered who actually wants to see Vision change diapers?! I don't believe Wanda will be changed too dramatically. She'll just have a sitcom personality. Which I think is a good thing. I don't want to see her moping around. I can't believe that Wanda and Vision will do the whole family thing in the MCU before the Fantastic Four does.

    I also agree that the Odd Couple/Perfect Strangers/Two and a Half Men dynamics do work well in comedy. Even thought it wasn't particularly comedic, I think Iron Man and Captain America had a bit of that.
    Doctor Strange did not repair himself in the middle east, and beyond all that they had different personality traits. Stephen a bit more serious. Iron Man could be serious to a point but was more giving and philanthropic, but ended up being snarky later before the movie counter part became that. Both are arrogant. Stephen isn't a genius but is a talented surgeon. Tony battled addiction and Stephen did not. So if you cherry pick their differences, sure, you can come to them being the same. You can also do that with characters of the same age, same powers types, same hair color. Most of the MU has redheads with blue eyes. But there are also differences there. And if they are overlooked, it'd be bad for character variety. So what's read on websites isn't exactly accurate. It's a flagrant generalization..

    Flawed characters aren't the problem I have with characters being all humorous with no exceptions. Most if not all Marvel characters are flawed. It's the details in how they are flawed that matter.

    Hawkeye was not a womanizer... not sure where you got that from. I mean he'd flirt, sure. But womanizer, no.

    They are probably doing WandaVision because it is so different and this phase they are aiming to do different things.
    Was Curlytop

  9. #3054
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    Linking Wanda and the mutants wouldn't be a good idea, but am I the only one who wants to see her interact with Illyana in Strange Academy (or another book involving sorcerers from the marvel universe) ?
    It would be really nice if Marvel's two most iconic witches could form a cordial relationship, or, hopefully, a friendship
    That would be due to their mystical connection than the mutant one, also the "Elder Gods" Belasco served are actually N'Garai right?(Elder Spawns) Kinda makes them belongs in the same catergory in terms of magic source.(Since N'Garai are the kin species of Chthon.)

  10. #3055
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Doctor Strange did not repair himself in the middle east, and beyond all that they had different personality traits. Stephen a bit more serious. Iron Man could be serious to a point but was more giving and philanthropic, but ended up being snarky later before the movie counter part became that. Both are arrogant. Stephen isn't a genius but is a talented surgeon. Tony battled addiction and Stephen did not. So if you cherry pick their differences, sure, you can come to them being the same. You can also do that with characters of the same age, same powers types, same hair color. Most of the MU has redheads with blue eyes. But there are also differences there. And if they are overlooked, it'd be bad for character variety. So what's read on websites isn't exactly accurate. It's a flagrant generalization..

    Flawed characters aren't the problem I have with characters being all humorous with no exceptions. Most if not all Marvel characters are flawed. It's the details in how they are flawed that matter.

    Hawkeye was not a womanizer... not sure where you got that from. I mean he'd flirt, sure. But womanizer, no.

    They are probably doing WandaVision because it is so different and this phase they are aiming to do different things.
    Yeah, I think due to pop culture stuff a lot people associate womanizer with "the rogue/scoundrel" type of male character.(The most typical being Han Solo)
    You know that guy who is kind of a dick but actually a good person in nature?
    I mean Clint certainly had a long history of numerous romances(but so does everyone else unless you are Sue and Reed.)
    I think Albert1981 just mean Clint being less subtle when it comes to pursuing a romantic relationship.
    But he is certainly the respectful type, when turned down and things didn't turn out with any results, he simply remains good friends with the girls.(Let's forget the "sleeping with a Doombot" thing for now...)

  11. #3056

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Yeah, I think due to pop culture stuff a lot people associate womanizer with "the rogue/scoundrel" type of male character.(The most typical being Han Solo)
    You know that guy who is kind of a dick but actually a good person in nature?
    I mean Clint certainly had a long history of numerous romances(but so does everyone else unless you are Sue and Reed.)
    I think Albert1981 just mean Clint being less subtle when it comes to pursuing a romantic relationship.
    But he is certainly the respectful type, when turned down and things didn't turn out with any results, he simply remains good friends with the girls.(Let's forget the "sleeping with a Doombot" thing for now...)
    Yeah, he is that. Womanizers are definitely different because for them women are conquests. I think Hawkeye had a lot of crushes. And was a hopeless romantic for a time.
    Was Curlytop

  12. #3057
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Yeah, he is that. Womanizers are definitely different because for them women are conquests. I think Hawkeye had a lot of crushes. And was a hopeless romantic for a time.
    Oh yeah, he fell for a Russian woman who called herself 'the Black Widow' during the height of the Cold War (and, oh, spoiler alert, 'Natasha' turned out to be a spy!, (cue look of shock and suprise) which he would have seen coming if he'd ever sat through an episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle).

    The man clearly does his thinking with the wrong head, as far as the ladies are concerned.

  13. #3058

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Oh yeah, he fell for a Russian woman who called herself 'the Black Widow' during the height of the Cold War (and, oh, spoiler alert, 'Natasha' turned out to be a spy!, (cue look of shock and suprise) which he would have seen coming if he'd ever sat through an episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle).

    The man clearly does his thinking with the wrong head, as far as the ladies are concerned.
    It's worthy of noting that Hawkeye during this time was really young. He was said to be in his early twenties when he joined the Avengers. And this was before that. So he could have still been a teenager then.
    Was Curlytop

  14. #3059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest we don't really get a lot of inter-team interaction among The Avengers in the movies.
    That's sadly true and if they do it is mostly all business. We rarely see them just hanging out
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  15. #3060
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    It's worthy of noting that Hawkeye during this time was really young. He was said to be in his early twenties when he joined the Avengers. And this was before that. So he could have still been a teenager then.
    No, he wouldn't. According to marvel time (and interestingly real time) only a few months would have passed from when Clint's debut to when he joined the Avengers. So if he was in his early twenties when he joined the Avengers, he would have been that age when he met Natasha
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