Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[Steel Inquisitor]

Funny that you mention that because Jean was possessed, she was forgiven for her past actions. In other fiction, people who committed vile acts while not "in their right minds", often DO get punished for their transgressions. Either by their victims and often times by their own hands. And that is regardless of their state of minds. Here are two examples that I know of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repent...Trek:_Voyager)

And

https://allthingslawandorder.blogspo...own-recap.html

I think Claremont and Byrne originally wanted Jean Grey to die as a punishment for her actions, but due to editorial interference Jean was resurrected. I know that Jean is a great character and really popular, but if she had died during the Dark Phoenix Saga, the whole story would have concluded in a more logical and coherent manner. It would have been more poignant and meaningful, and the story would have been even more powerful than it already is. And aren't readers tired of stories in which heroes do bad things because they are possessed and/or brainwashed by villains? To me, that's really old hat, you know? It allows heroes to NOT face up to their mistakes in a way that seems really lazy in my opinion.

The Trek episode isn't really what's going on with Wanda, since he was a remorseless criminal who only wanted redemption when Borg nanites gave him the ability to feel empathy he's not possessed by another entity or a powerful energy source which compromises his identity. It's also a complicated situation morally, with Seven not coming off well by not approving of the prisoners being given medial treatment since they're on "death row" and the guards engaging in police brutality.

Originally Claremont wanted Jean to be a recurring villain, and when Shooter tried to give punishment for her genocide Claremont chose not to send her to intergalactic prison because he thought the X-men wouldn't have given up trying to break her out. Eventually he settled on killing her but that wasn't the original plan, but he felt that was a great conclusion since it's like a Greek tragedy. That said, this got retconned out as the Phoenix being a duplicate (except after that all possessions were of the real person) to give Jean a blank slate and get her back on the team.

It make sense for those explanations since villains activities like M-Day would be out of character for them, and sometimes bad writing needs to retconned away for being bad writing. The setting is filled with people and entities that make possessions an ordinate event, when Marvel started off being very science fiction and fantasy based far from real life. The lazy writing is putting them in that position in the first place, without the possession excuse IMO, as well as bungling the conclusion or the characters become tainted forever and the cycle continues.

Brainwashing/possession should also be a great legal/moral defence since with those circumstances the character isn't in the "driver's seat" someone else is, they're just the gun and someone else is pulling the trigger. As is being compromised by magics and being under severe stress by other people.

Do we know why Xavier failed with Wanda? He's not been a very good therapist for her with the Life Force when he should have more success due to hie experience and mental powers unless he's sabotaging her care deliberately. Dr. Strange came off poorly in Avengers: Disassmebled by blaming Wanda for not seeking him out, due to the retcon with Chaos Magic, and in theory he knew she was at risk and did nothing on his own initiative. Maybe the original idea was for Wanda to have a mental break and be responsible for everything until the editors pulled him aside to not let a long serving Avenger self destruct just so Bendis could disband the Avengers. It's a mess given how it's all put in there when it feels hastily written at the last minute. It's all so messed up someone else will probably do another big retcon to make everything make sense ala Avengers Forever.

What's disappointing is that they could have done all this by having having Cthon possessing her again, which draws on her past experiences without making her look crazy.

[leokearon]

Funny that you mention that because Jean was possessed, she was forgiven for her past actions. In other fiction, people who committed vile acts while not "in their right minds", often DO get punished for their transgressions. Either by their victims and often times by their own hands. And that is regardless of their state of minds. Here are two examples that I know of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repent...Trek:_Voyager)

And

https://allthingslawandorder.blogspo...own-recap.html

I think Claremont and Byrne originally wanted Jean Grey to die as a punishment for her actions, but due to editorial interference Jean was resurrected. I know that Jean is a great character and really popular, but if she had died during the Dark Phoenix Saga, the whole story would have concluded in a more logical and coherent manner. It would have been more poignant and meaningful, and the story would have been even more powerful than it already is. And aren't readers tired of stories in which heroes do bad things because they are possessed and/or brainwashed by villains? To me, that's really old hat, you know? It allows heroes to NOT face up to their mistakes in a way that seems really lazy in my opinion.

The original plan was for Jean to live, but she would be depowered. THis would allow her and Scott to marry and be largely written out of the books, but they could have al oophole to bring Dark Phoenix back if they wanted to. Jim Shooter was against that as Jean had committed genocide and needed to be punished; his idea was having Jean chained to a radioactive asteroid forever. Knowing he was going to win, Claremont had Jean sacrifice herself to stop Dark Phoenix. That should have been that. However, with X-men becoming mega popular, Marvel wanted a new X-Spinoff, and the idea was to have it focusing on the original X-Men. Of course Jean was dead, luckily the editors had heard that a young college student callled Kurt Busiek had a theory on how Jean could come back. The talked to him, got the whole Comsinc Chicken impostor idea and Jean was back absolved of all guilt.

At least with Wanda and Bucky, they accept responsibility for their actions, unlucky a lot of other heroes.

[Sutekh]

Isn't that explained that as "Oh Phoenix and Jean are separated entity, the one who murdered an entire Solar System is actually just Phoenix cosplaying as Jean"?

Man, they just dropped that whole thing, too. Were there D'Bari off-world? Is there a small population of D'Bari 'in exile' living on other Shiar worlds, cursing Jean Grey's name? Is there a death-cult that worships entities like Galactus, the Celestials and the Phoenix, and considers their coming to be a holy cleansing that judges and culls worlds based on some divine criteria, and considers survivors (like any D'Bari or Skrull survivors of the destruction of their homeworlds) to be unholy abominations that must be cleansed? Sometimes when folks die, there's a 'psychic death-scream,' such as when Alderaan blowed up in Star Wars, was there one when D'Bari blew up, and did perhaps awaken someone far away to vast psychic powers, their head ringing with the last moments of fear, pain and confusion of eleventy billion asparagus people? And do they now want to find that woman they saw, wreathed in fire, laughing in their heads as they all died, and make her suffer?

So much left lying on the table.

Same with Wanda and the Decimation. Regardless of whether or not she *is* responsible or culpable or blame-able for what happened, what about the mutants affected? Surely there are some who hate her. Surely, and we've seen them many times in the past, there were mutants who *hated* their mutations, and open no longer being deformed freaks with no kewl superpowers, they could again have lives and jobs and lovers and families, and they might *thank* Wanda (which she'd find horribly awkward, since she doesn't really seem to think she was really responsible anyway...), or, worse, after the 'un-Decimation,' they might have *reverted* to being a smelly tentacled slime-freak that has to be kept damp or their skin cracks, and has the amazing mutant power to constantly drool copious amounts of paralyzing phlegm, and be furious that *once again* their entire life has been stolen away by this mutant crap, which *did not* give them supermodel good looks and the power to fly.

Yes, it was an ugly stupid story that ignored all previous continuity about how Wanda's powers worked, and used her as a deus ex machina. But it happened, and better writers have come along and kludgily tried to 'fix' it (that 'Life Force' thing). Now, moving forward, some actual *storytelling* could be salvaged from this pig's ear. There could be growth. Character development. Maybe some drama. Not just Wanda defensively saying, 'Why did there need to be so many mutants anyway?' or something, just, apparently, to make X-fans hate her even more.

[leokearon]

Man, they just dropped that whole thing, too. Were there D'Bari off-world? Is there a small population of D'Bari 'in exile' living on other Shiar worlds, cursing Jean Grey's name? Is there a death-cult that worships entities like Galactus, the Celestials and the Phoenix, and considers their coming to be a holy cleansing that judges and culls worlds based on some divine criteria, and considers survivors (like any D'Bari or Skrull survivors of the destruction of their homeworlds) to be unholy abominations that must be cleansed? Sometimes when folks die, there's a 'psychic death-scream,' such as when Alderaan blowed up in Star Wars, was there one when D'Bari blew up, and did perhaps awaken someone far away to vast psychic powers, their head ringing with the last moments of fear, pain and confusion of eleventy billion asparagus people? And do they now want to find that woman they saw, wreathed in fire, laughing in their heads as they all died, and make her suffer?

So much left lying on the table.

Same with Wanda and the Decimation. Regardless of whether or not she *is* responsible or culpable or blame-able for what happened, what about the mutants affected? Surely there are some who hate her. Surely, and we've seen them many times in the past, there were mutants who *hated* their mutations, and open no longer being deformed freaks with no kewl superpowers, they could again have lives and jobs and lovers and families, and they might *thank* Wanda (which she'd find horribly awkward, since she doesn't really seem to think she was really responsible anyway...), or, worse, after the 'un-Decimation,' they might have *reverted* to being a smelly tentacled slime-freak that has to be kept damp or their skin cracks, and has the amazing mutant power to constantly drool copious amounts of paralyzing phlegm, and be furious that *once again* their entire life has been stolen away by this mutant crap, which *did not* give them supermodel good looks and the power to fly.

Yes, it was an ugly stupid story that ignored all previous continuity about how Wanda's powers worked, and used her as a deus ex machina. But it happened, and better writers have come along and kludgily tried to 'fix' it (that 'Life Force' thing). Now, moving forward, some actual *storytelling* could be salvaged from this pig's ear. There could be growth. Character development. Maybe some drama. Not just Wanda defensively saying, 'Why did there need to be so many mutants anyway?' or something, just, apparently, to make X-fans hate her even more.

Yes, there were D'Bari off world and yes they did try to get revenge on Jean.

That's also the thing in Children's Crusade, while Wanda still had access to the Lifeforce, she offered to restore any mutants who wanted their powers back, but for Cyclops that wasn't good enough.

[Zelena]

Yeah, it appears to be that way. Maybe it was just an excuse to draw women in skimpier clothing. Because insanity in the laydeez apparently seems to go hand in hand with increased sluttishness.

Liberation of passions means liberation of the body?
Authors seems to have a strange idea of what a woman is once she got rid of the constraints of convention…

[Albert1981]

The Trek episode isn't really what's going on with Wanda, since he was a remorseless criminal who only wanted redemption when Borg nanites gave him the ability to feel empathy he's not possessed by another entity or a powerful energy source which compromises his identity. It's also a complicated situation morally, with Seven not coming off well by not approving of the prisoners being given medial treatment since they're on "death row" and the guards engaging in police brutality.

Originally Claremont wanted Jean to be a recurring villain, and when Shooter tried to give punishment for her genocide Claremont chose not to send her to intergalactic prison because he thought the X-men wouldn't have given up trying to break her out. Eventually he settled on killing her but that wasn't the original plan, but he felt that was a great conclusion since it's like a Greek tragedy. That said, this got retconned out as the Phoenix being a duplicate (except after that all possessions were of the real person) to give Jean a blank slate and get her back on the team.

It make sense for those explanations since villains activities like M-Day would be out of character for them, and sometimes bad writing needs to retconned away for being bad writing. The setting is filled with people and entities that make possessions an ordinate event, when Marvel started off being very science fiction and fantasy based far from real life. The lazy writing is putting them in that position in the first place, without the possession excuse IMO, as well as bungling the conclusion or the characters become tainted forever and the cycle continues.

Brainwashing/possession should also be a great legal/moral defence since with those circumstances the character isn't in the "driver's seat" someone else is, they're just the gun and someone else is pulling the trigger. As is being compromised by magics and being under severe stress by other people.

Do we know why Xavier failed with Wanda? He's not been a very good therapist for her with the Life Force when he should have more success due to hie experience and mental powers unless he's sabotaging her care deliberately. Dr. Strange came off poorly in Avengers: Disassmebled by blaming Wanda for not seeking him out, due to the retcon with Chaos Magic, and in theory he knew she was at risk and did nothing on his own initiative. Maybe the original idea was for Wanda to have a mental break and be responsible for everything until the editors pulled him aside to not let a long serving Avenger self destruct just so Bendis could disband the Avengers. It's a mess given how it's all put in there when it feels hastily written at the last minute. It's all so messed up someone else will probably do another big retcon to make everything make sense ala Avengers Forever.

What's disappointing is that they could have done all this by having having Cthon possessing her again, which draws on her past experiences without making her look crazy.

Wow. I really loved your comments. So insightful, so well-thought out and so interesting. Thank you for posting them and letting me know about the editorial decisions that were made for those stories. It gave me much to think about in terms of storytelling. I thought Seven of Nine did NOT come off well at the beginning of the episode by showing no understanding and sympathy for the prisoners at first, but I really liked the fact that she "evolved" because she saw her own struggles mirrored in Iko's fight to gain his humanity. And it should be noted that once Iko had found out what he had done in his past life, he was eager to die. That was well done in my view. To put characters in bad positions is often due to lazy writers who enjoy shock value in their stories for their own sakes. But I personally LOVE morally ambiguous situations if they are handled deftly. When there is no clear right or wrong. I get your argument that brainwashing and possession can be a great legal and/or moral defense because they aren't in control of themselves. But for me, I often fall on the side of the victims of acts of violence. REGARDLESS of the circumstances. People who do dangerous things because they are intoxicated, off their medication, suffering from mental illness, insanity, mental retardation, suffering from PTSD, and/or losing their mental faculties through dementia/Alzheimers can rightly say that they weren't in their right minds when they committed these acts. But if I and/or people that I care about were victims of their acts, to tell you the truth, I wouldn't CARE about their states of minds. Iko's victims didn't. Tony Stark didn't give a **** if Bucky Barnes actually didn't WANT to murder his parents. As Stark stated, "I don't care. He killed my mom." I wish the MCU would have given a chance for Tony to come to terms with the Winter Soldier, maybe even forgive him. I do think Sebastian Stan did a great job of showing a tremendous amount of guilt and self-loathing for his actions, however. Or like when Vision paralyzed Rhodey at the airport battle. Bettany did a great job of showing Vis's dismay after that incident. He was never an aggressive combatant after that fight. That was character development right there in my view. I thought the writers did a lovely job of making Wanda and Vis abandoning the Stark/Rogers food fight and focusing on their relationship because the break-up of the Avengers had cost them so much. But the next time Vis and Rhodey met, they just dropped that story, and they both pretended like nothing happened which I thought was a shame. I know the movies have limited space for storytelling, but I would have liked a follow-up on that.

I personally like Jean Grey and Wanda Maximoff as characters. But if people died and/or were harmed at THEIR hands, their victims would have every right to be furious with them and even demand punishment for their actions (regardless of what was going on in their heads at the time). That might not be entirely fair, but it makes for a great storytelling dynamic, you know? I haven't read Avengers Disassembled, but weren't Jack of Hearts, Ant-Man, Hawkeye and Vision flat out killed and the Wasp put into a coma because of a brainwashed Wanda's actions? In the years since, did the team just forget about the whole thing? Have they reconciled? Like, what happened?! Have Jean and Wanda ever felt guilty about what they did and expressed remorse? Because for me, to express guilt and regret for whatever transgressions you have engaged in, regardless of the circumstances, is the first step to redemption. And perhaps forgiveness. I don't know if Marvel has pursued this storyline or they just moved on from it. I would like to know.

I don't mind writers using the possession/brainwashing trope. I just object to them using it over and over again on the same characters. I think THAT's lazy storytelling.

[Albert1981]

Liberation of passions means liberation of the body?
Authors seems to have a strange idea of what a woman is once she got rid of the constraints of convention…

Well, many of them came of age during the sexual revolution of the 1960s, so I imagine they were influenced by those events. I just think sometimes they took things WAY too far.

[Albert1981]

The original plan was for Jean to live, but she would be depowered. THis would allow her and Scott to marry and be largely written out of the books, but they could have al oophole to bring Dark Phoenix back if they wanted to. Jim Shooter was against that as Jean had committed genocide and needed to be punished; his idea was having Jean chained to a radioactive asteroid forever. Knowing he was going to win, Claremont had Jean sacrifice herself to stop Dark Phoenix. That should have been that. However, with X-men becoming mega popular, Marvel wanted a new X-Spinoff, and the idea was to have it focusing on the original X-Men. Of course Jean was dead, luckily the editors had heard that a young college student callled Kurt Busiek had a theory on how Jean could come back. The talked to him, got the whole Comsinc Chicken impostor idea and Jean was back absolved of all guilt.

At least with Wanda and Bucky, they accept responsibility for their actions, unlucky a lot of other heroes.

Yeah, to absolve people of all guilt because of external factors ALONE sounds really cheap to me. Jean sacrificing herself to so stop Dark Phoenix would have been a near PERFECT end to her character arc. Like a Greek tragedy as Steel Inquisitor put it. I could also use Hank Pym as an example. Instead of torturing his character and making him lose his mind on a regular basis (due to his creation of Ultron), perhaps he can sacrifice himself to protect Jan one last time. Then his character would be permanently rehabilitated. Think how Jan would react to this? It would be kind of like how Wanda failed to protect Vision in the Infinity Saga and literally had to kill him herself. Those traumatic events will definitely play a huge part in Wandavision. I think Jan's character could grow too if she could move on from something so traumatic, like Wanda certainly will in Wandavision. And finally they can let Vis and Hank rest in peace, safe in the knowledge that they protected the people who meant the most to them.

The MCU did a great job of demonstrating that their heroes did accept responsibility for their actions. Bucky after him killing Stark's parents, Wanda after the incidents in Sokovia and Lagos, and Vision for paralyzing Rhodey. I also think that's why all three of them were not really quippy and joyful like the other MCU superheroes. They all just seemed weighed down by the burdens of guilt and remorse and I liked that aspect of their characters to be quite honest. But now that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Wandavision are coming out, I think all three of them will suddenly become funny like their superhero contemporaries. Which I like.

[Albert1981]

Well, I was thinking if the authors in question have some kind of dominatrix fetish...

Kind of makes you wonder what the heck was going on in their personal lives! Were they having troubled getting laid and wanted to indulge in sexual fantasies on the printed page? My guess is a definite YES.

[Albert1981]

Man, they just dropped that whole thing, too. Were there D'Bari off-world? Is there a small population of D'Bari 'in exile' living on other Shiar worlds, cursing Jean Grey's name? Is there a death-cult that worships entities like Galactus, the Celestials and the Phoenix, and considers their coming to be a holy cleansing that judges and culls worlds based on some divine criteria, and considers survivors (like any D'Bari or Skrull survivors of the destruction of their homeworlds) to be unholy abominations that must be cleansed? Sometimes when folks die, there's a 'psychic death-scream,' such as when Alderaan blowed up in Star Wars, was there one when D'Bari blew up, and did perhaps awaken someone far away to vast psychic powers, their head ringing with the last moments of fear, pain and confusion of eleventy billion asparagus people? And do they now want to find that woman they saw, wreathed in fire, laughing in their heads as they all died, and make her suffer?

So much left lying on the table.

Same with Wanda and the Decimation. Regardless of whether or not she *is* responsible or culpable or blame-able for what happened, what about the mutants affected? Surely there are some who hate her. Surely, and we've seen them many times in the past, there were mutants who *hated* their mutations, and open no longer being deformed freaks with no kewl superpowers, they could again have lives and jobs and lovers and families, and they might *thank* Wanda (which she'd find horribly awkward, since she doesn't really seem to think she was really responsible anyway...), or, worse, after the 'un-Decimation,' they might have *reverted* to being a smelly tentacled slime-freak that has to be kept damp or their skin cracks, and has the amazing mutant power to constantly drool copious amounts of paralyzing phlegm, and be furious that *once again* their entire life has been stolen away by this mutant crap, which *did not* give them supermodel good looks and the power to fly.

Yes, it was an ugly stupid story that ignored all previous continuity about how Wanda's powers worked, and used her as a deus ex machina. But it happened, and better writers have come along and kludgily tried to 'fix' it (that 'Life Force' thing). Now, moving forward, some actual *storytelling* could be salvaged from this pig's ear. There could be growth. Character development. Maybe some drama. Not just Wanda defensively saying, 'Why did there need to be so many mutants anyway?' or something, just, apparently, to make X-fans hate her even more.

Brilliant analysis. Really fascinating stuff you're presenting here. In some ways, it's not just about blame and/or responsibility for what happened in the past. I think the AFTERMATH of how the participants dealt with said events could make for some amazing storytelling. I truly believe it's NOT Wanda's fault that Marvel allowed the mutant population to explode over the past few decades. They should be a small and distinct minority in order for their story to work. A persecuted group can't be persecuted "effectively" if they are present in such large numbers. It's too bad they used her to "fix" a problem she had nothing to do with. I also think Marvel Comics should hire you post-haste. I would absolutely buy your books!

[Albert1981]

Byrne had thing for good girl gone bad. It seemed to be a fetish of his. Byrne does have issues with women. Intended or not. The reason he wanted Jean punished for being the Phoenix was because they already had a powerful woman in Storm and one was enough.

I hate to say it, but I really liked Byrne's Fantastic Four, X-Men and Superman runs. They are definitely classics. His Avengers and Spider-Man work appears to be almost universally panned though. I don't see many folks liking his work there.

[leokearon]

Yeah, to absolve people of all guilt because of external factors ALONE sounds really cheap to me. Jean sacrificing herself to so stop Dark Phoenix would have been a near PERFECT end to her character arc. Like a Greek tragedy as Steel Inquisitor put it. I could also use Hank Pym as an example. Instead of torturing his character and making him lose his mind on a regular basis (due to his creation of Ultron), perhaps he can sacrifice himself to protect Jan one last time. Then his character would be permanently rehabilitated. Think how Jan would react to this? It would be kind of like how Wanda failed to protect Vision in the Infinity Saga and literally had to kill him herself. Those traumatic events will definitely play a huge part in Wandavision. I think Jan's character could grow too if she could move on from something so traumatic, like Wanda certainly will in Wandavision. And finally they can let Vis and Hank rest in peace, safe in the knowledge that they protected the people who meant the most to them.

The MCU did a great job of demonstrating that their heroes did accept responsibility for their actions. Bucky after him killing Stark's parents, Wanda after the incidents in Sokovia and Lagos, and Vision for paralyzing Rhodey. I also think that's why all three of them were not really quippy and joyful like the other MCU superheroes. They all just seemed weighed down by the burdens of guilt and remorse and I liked that aspect of their characters to be quite honest. But now that the Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Wandavision are coming out, I think all three of them will suddenly become funny like their superhero counterparts. Which I like.

It is really cheap, but for some it is seen as necessary. It would be hard to sell characters if they were revealed to be murders and committed genocide.

Hank will never be redeemed permanently, the writers (and sometimes fans) just love to bring up all of his negative aspects all the time and never focus on the positives.

[Albert1981]

It is really cheap, but for some it is seen as necessary. It would be hard to sell characters if they were revealed to be murders and committed genocide.

Hank will never be redeemed permanently, the writers (and sometimes fans) just love to bring up all of his negative aspects all the time and never focus on the positives.

I totally understand that argument. But that's why I agreed with your earlier comment that perhaps it would have been better for Jean Grey's and Hank Pym's characters to die. End their existences as "tragic heroes" Darth Vader-style. They could say they've made a lot of mistakes and done a lot of things they're not proud of, but let them by their last (benign) acts try to make up for them. Remember how Darth Vader died peacefully in Luke Skywalker's arms at the end, knowing that his son forgave him? I think it would be nice if Jean Grey and Hank Pym had those moments with Cyclops and the Wasp respectively. Sure, redemptions of tragic heroes is a pretty big cliché in itself, but many people will continue to find it moving all the same. And then there would be no need for redemption for those characters because they'd be gone. I would love for Marvel Comics to do that. Instead of dredging up old grievances and throwing people's past transgressions in their faces for fake drama. I think many readers would be receptive to those storylines. I know I would.

And on another note, judging from reading the posts on these threads, people here are just DYING for more funnier superheroes AND supervillains who don't take themselves so seriously. Like you said earlier, comic books and comic book movies should be FUN. Some of the posters on these boards are flat-out hilarious! Marvel should hire them. I think if there is no humor in the comics, then there's no signs of life in them. I think Feige and his team are geniuses for adopting such a funny formula for their MCU characters. Sure, sometimes the humor gets excessive and a lot of jokes don't land. But it grounds the characters by having them be aware of how ridiculous they really are.

[Kurt Busiek]

Of course Jean was dead, luckily the editors had heard that a young college student callled Kurt Busiek had a theory on how Jean could come back. The talked to him, got the whole Comsinc Chicken impostor idea and Jean was back absolved of all guilt..

They didn't talk to me, not until after the crossover was already under way, and they realized I was working in the offices. At which point they realized it wasn't a fan suggestion, and decided they should credit and pay me.

But I didn't pitch it, I didn't approve it, I didn't consult on it -- it was an idea I'd come up with for fun back when I first heard the news they were killing off Jean due to a plotting mistake, and I told Roger Stern about it a few years later, just as part of a casual conversation.

Roger told John Byrne, John told Bob Layton, and John, Roger and Bob pitched it to Jim Shooter. I hadn't thought about it since the conversation with Roger, so the first I heard of it was when Bob Layton (who I'd never met before, so I didn't know who he was) came up behind me in the Bullpen and said, "So, I hear I've got you to thank for having Jean back!"

I think my response was, "Huh?"

kdb

[ARkadelphia]

They didn't talk to me, not until after the crossover was already under way, and they realized I was working in the offices. At which point they realized it wasn't a fan suggestion, and decided they should credit and pay me.

But I didn't pitch it, I didn't approve it, I didn't consult on it -- it was an idea I'd come up with for fun back when I first heard the news they were killing off Jean due to a plotting mistake, and I told Roger Stern about it a few years later, just as part of a casual conversation.

Roger told John Byrne, John told Bob Layton, and John, Roger and Bob pitched it to Jim Shooter. I hadn't thought about it since the conversation with Roger, so the first I heard of it was when Bob Layton (who I'd never met before, so I didn't know who he was) came up behind me in the Bullpen and said, "So, I hear I've got you to thank for having Jean back!"

I think my response was, "Huh?"

kdb

It’s a small world after all