Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[GenericUsername]

Look, I know Joss Whedon's directing/writing was very divisive and the Age of Ultron was a polarizing film. I get it. But what do you think if Whedon had stayed on an did more movies? Clearly, Whedon wanted to play up the Maximoffs Eastern European (perhaps Romani roots). Hence the accents. He wanted to discuss (obliquely) about how the U.S. military can often cause a lot of harm in other countries overseas unintentionally. Instead of using the corny Brotherhood of Evil Mutants as part of their origin story, the Maximoffs worked with HYDRA and Ultron's armies. Whedon was clearly interested in the whole mind control hallucination thing as well when it pertained to Wanda. The MCU even lamentably made Wanda use the Hulk to murder people to prove her villainy (a fact which is almost forgotten today). Let's not also forget that whatever you think of ATJ's portrayal of Quicksilver, almost ALL comic book readers agree that it was the closest and most accurate portrayal to his comic book counterpart ever put on screen. And Wanda adopted a more Gothic look in Age of Ultron. So I don't think Whedon was just obsessed with quips and jokes, you know? He definitely had a VISION for Wanda. I think he wanted Pietro and Wanda to be seen as extremist zealots with a legitimate grievance against the Stark Industries and the Avengers. But because of the brutal infighting between Perlmutter, Feige and Whedon himself, the execution was flawed.

The Russos, McFeely and Markus clearly disliked that vision. They de-emphasized Wanda's Eastern European roots and got rid of her accent. They gave her a wardrobe makeover. She became Americanized. And no references were made to HYDRA, her mind controlling the Avengers and her villainous past (I don't think Banner, Romanoff, Rhodey and Stark even hate her anymore). And questioning US military interventions abroad was replaced with question Avengers' actions in different parts of the world. The new writers and directors discussed Sokovia not as the Maximoffs homeland, but as the place which brought about the Accords which tore the superheroes apart. They basically cut off Wanda emotionally from her place of birth. I know that this direction did stray a lot from Wanda's origins. But I agree it had to be done. To have Wanda remain a Gothic bitch with a chip on her shoulder against America would have made her a VERY unpopular character in my view. Her accent would have been too jarring. Her growing affection for Vis softened the rough edges of her personality and made her a really sympathetic figure. So even though Wanda became less comic book accurate as a character, she became more popular because of this new interpretation.

Now Matt Shakman, Jac Schaeffer and Megan McDonnell will be trying their hand at a NEW interpretation of Wanda. An even MORE Americanized one. And she will be funny. Again, I agree with Kevin Feige's decision here. Marvel hired several women and people of color to write the show to give it a different flavor. The most ideal, in my opinion, would be to have actual ROMANI writers working on it. But I just think under the current circumstances, it wouldn't be possible. I don't even recall any Romani writers, male or female, who even wrote for Wanda in the comic books themselves (and she's clearly Romani in them). So to ask Marvel Studios to do the same would be asking too much. I'm certain Michael Waldron and Sam Raimi will have ANOTHER take on Wanda in Dr. Strange 2. I concur with Feige's decision to Americanize Wanda to the fullest extent. I believe it's the only way for her to regain her popularity in the comic books, even at the cost of neglecting her roots. And this still might not happen. But I think it's worth a try. I think when Dr. Doom enters the MCU, he might also become "Americanized" as well. His Eastern European Romani roots PROBABLY would be played down like Wanda's. Do you agree with my analysis when I say that to make Wanda more American is necessary for her to gain a wider following amongst a larger audience? I would like to know. I just think it's almost impossible for Marvel Comics to let Wanda receive "redemption for a so-called genocide" of mutants. How many war criminals do you know of who have received absolution?

I also think wherever you stand on the "whitewashing" debate when it concerns the Maximoff twins and turning the Vision into a British gentleman, Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany are seriously pouring their hearts and souls into their respective roles and doing their absolute best to make Wanda and Vision great in the movies and on television. I believe it's really unfair to force Olsen to speak with a Russian accent and for Bettany to speak in an American one when it would hamper their performances. I really admire their respect and dedication to the superheroes they are playing. They take their profession very seriously and I think that's absolutely wonderful. They are literally bringing Wanda and Vision to life on our screens through their passion and enthusiasm. And the work they have put in has clearly been incredible (especially with Bettany's make-up)! So let's give a big hand to the two of them as well!

Whedon shouldn't have wanted to play up the Romani roots. He cast a white girl. So no that I would not have liked to continue. His Wanda was more like Jean. I think that without him, they are pushing Wanda closer to herself. And something more unique than Whedon's manic pixie dream girl types.

And how I stand on the whitewashing is this. They already cast, and Wanda is a character that is very flawed in representation, so it's probably best to just forge ahead with her being generally European. And in the future create Romani characters that aren't stereotypes. Preferably heavily consulted by Romani or written by them.

[Albert1981]

Whedon shouldn't have wanted to play up the Romani roots. He cast a white girl. So no that I would not have liked to continue. His Wanda was more like Jean. I think that without him, they are pushing Wanda closer to herself. And something more unique than Whedon's manic pixie dream girl types.

And how I stand on the whitewashing is this. They already cast, and Wanda is a character that is very flawed in representation, so it's probably best to just forge ahead with her being generally European. And in the future create Romani characters that aren't stereotypes. Preferably heavily consulted by Romani or written by them.

Thank you for your very honest and candid answer. It's funny that Whedon has been accused of misunderstanding the essence of the Maximoff twins' characters, even though he largely wrote their origins and personalities somewhat similar to their comic book counterparts. Age of Ultron was a strange movie that way. Wanda was definitely like Jean in that film. But I would have liked Olsen to continue moving her FINGERS when using her powers like she did in 2015. I thought that was clever choreography. You definitely get the sense that Pietro and Wanda were really "emo" in that picture. We'll have to see how Schaeffer, McDonnell and Shakman handle Wanda in her new show. I thought the Russos and McFeely and Marcus did a fine job with their movies. I wish they had more time to give the Hulk some more action, but there just wasn't enough of it. Let's be honest. Those last two Avengers movies were basically Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Thanos movies. Everybody else was pushed to the side. I thought all the directors and writers brought different aspects to the characters, but they tried to keep things consistent.

I would love to see Romani characters in entertainment media portrayed in a positive way. I think stereotypes of dancing, fortune-telling vagrant "Gypsies" are pretty outdated and needs to be changed. But unfortunately I have yet to see any portrayals that are accurate of modern day Romani life. I think Romani writers could help fix these misperceptions, but I don't know of any! And not all whitewashing is bad in my view. I thought the MCU did a great job of re-imagining characters like the Mandarin and the Ancient One in their films. Because those characters WERE stereotypical (and arguably racist) caricatures of East Asian people from the 1960s. So Marvel did a fine job of modernizing those characters. Even though Marvel took a lot of heat for those decisions, their hearts were in the right place. Thank you again for your comments.

[Steel Inquisitor]

How was Scarlet Witch like Jean in the movies? She's vastly more cynical, threw in with HYDRA and Ultron, and her telepathy was downplayed then ignored entirely.

[GenericUsername]

Thank you for your very honest and candid answer. It's funny that Whedon has been accused of misunderstanding the essence of the Maximoff twins' characters, even though he largely wrote their origins and personalities somewhat similar to their comic book counterparts. Age of Ultron was a strange movie that way. Wanda was definitely like Jean in that film. But I would have liked Olsen to continue moving her FINGERS when using her powers like she did in 2015. I thought that was clever choreography. You definitely get the sense that Pietro and Wanda were really "emo" in that picture. We'll have to see how Schaeffer, McDonnell and Shakman handle Wanda in her new show. I thought the Russos and McFeely and Marcus did a fine job with their movies. I wish they had more time to give the Hulk some more action, but there just wasn't enough of it. Let's be honest. Those last two Avengers movies were basically Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Thanos movies. Everybody else was pushed to the side. I thought all the directors and writers brought different aspects to the characters, but they tried to keep things consistent.

I would love to see Romani characters in entertainment media portrayed in a positive way. I think stereotypes of dancing, fortune-telling vagrant "Gypsies" are pretty outdated and needs to be changed. But unfortunately I have yet to see any portrayals that are accurate of modern day Romani life. I think Romani writers could help fix these misperceptions, but I don't know of any! And not all whitewashing is bad in my view. I thought the MCU did a great job of re-imagining characters like the Mandarin and the Ancient One in their films. Because those characters WERE stereotypical (and arguably racist) caricatures of East Asian people from the 1960s. So Marvel did a fine job of modernizing those characters. Even though Marvel took a lot of heat for those decisions, their hearts were in the right place. Thank you again for your comments.

I found the cramped fingers look to look too odd. It wasn't my thing. Their origin was somewhat similar, in a way. But not really. Their way of getting powers was completely different. Comics just ended up copying the whole they are science experiments thing. Which Pietro probably needs but Wanda really does not. So it's still odd.

I know of Romani writers but they don't work in comics.

I think Mandarin and the Ancient One could have been done better. Ancient One did not have to be white washed but was because the movie would have never been able to be released in China. Because the Ancient One is Tibetan. And I feel that's just cowtowing. So I don't support it. Mandarin I feel could've been closer to Fraction's version and have dropped the yellow peril stuff completely. There are situations where they can clean up the stereotypes more cleanly. And probably should have.

[GenericUsername]

How was Scarlet Witch like Jean in the movies? She's vastly more cynical, threw in with HYDRA and Ultron, and her telepathy was downplayed then ignored entirely.

Mind abilities and started out quiet, to become more confident later. To where Wanda was always more assertive and had no mind powers. Then there's the orange red hair that Wanda has never had.

[Albert1981]

I found the cramped fingers look to look too odd. It wasn't my thing. Their origin was somewhat similar, in a way. But not really. Their way of getting powers was completely different. Comics just ended up copying the whole they are science experiments thing. Which Pietro probably needs but Wanda really does not. So it's still odd.

I know of Romani writers but they don't work in comics.

I think Mandarin and the Ancient One could have been done better. Ancient One did not have to be white washed but was because the movie would have never been able to be released in China. Because the Ancient One is Tibetan. And I feel that's just cowtowing. So I don't support it. Mandarin I feel could've been closer to Fraction's version and have dropped the yellow peril stuff completely. There are situations where they can clean up the stereotypes more cleanly. And probably should have.

What I meant is that the Maximoffs were portrayed as Eastern Europeans and that they started out as villains. I think Whedon stuck close to their origins about that part. They weren't part of a mutant group because of studio politics, but I was surprised that they made Wanda much more ruthless. Mind controlling the Hulk to commit violent acts and inciting Tony Stark to create Ultron. In the comics when she was in the Brotherhood, I believe Pietro and her tried to temper the more extremist tendencies of their teammates. I KNOW for a fact that studio executives despised the whole nightmare/mind control stuff. And the Russos and McFeely and Markus clearly hated that as well so they just got rid of it. That's what happens when new directors and writers take over films. But it can be jarring for us viewers.

I thought Whedon definitely made it look like HYDRA were a bunch of cowardly fools (in my view in a really hilarious way):

Wolfgang von Strucker to his henchmen: "We will not yield. The Americans send their circus freaks to test us. We will send them back, in bags. No surrender!"
Strucker: [Turns and whispers to Dr. List] "I am going to surrender."

And remember how the whole HYDRA backstory was completely dropped after the Age of Ultron? I know in Captain America: The Winter Soldier it definitely looked like Wanda and Pietro were NOT voluntarily submitting to those HYDRA experiments. They looked like they were drugged and being put in cages against their will, you know? Again, the whole HYDRA thing was forgotten as well and I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT certain Wandavision and Dr. Strange 2 will not address what the heck was going on there. But we were told they WANTED to be tested. Very confused storytelling by the MCU. I read AJT insisted on Eastern European accents for the Maximoffs and demanded his hair be dyed silver/white just like Pietro's in the comic books. I appreciate his dedication the character, and it was a shame he only had one appearance. But after he was killed off and Whedon left, Wanda literally became an American. And I support that creative decision. All I'm saying is that for whatever Whedon's flaws, he TRIED to make Wanda and Pietro stick as close to their comic book origins in SOME respects as much as possible. His successors just completely ignored his work on this front. And I'm saying that's okay and probably for the best. Even now, I believe that Marvel Studios thinks that Age of Ultron was just a painful experience best to be forgotten. But I thought even despite the dysfunction which took place in making that movie, they actually did a pretty good job. It was NOT a bad film at all in my opinion. I just wanted to let you know that I heartily approved of the Russos/McFeely/Marcus decision to have Wanda use her telekinetic powers in hand-to-hand combat during the Infinity War. I had never seen her do that in the comics and I thought it was really cool!

I'm definitely NOT condoning Disney's desire to compromise their values in order to "appease" the Communists in China. But I understand why they gave in to political pressure to change origins of the Ancient One. China's a HUGE part of Marvel's success globally and the corporation and its employees need to eat. So I get why they were so pragmatic in dealing with the Chinese. As for Iron Man 3, the Marvel could have done a better job with the Mandarin. But I thought they did their best under the circumstances. As I said previously, it's the thought that counts. And I thought that movie's surprise twist at the ending was pretty funny and creative. I appreciate Marvel trying to do different things and adapt their classic stories to modern times. Or perhaps I just have lower standards than you do.

[MaximoffTrash]

Ancient One and the Mandarin are more like a "why risk it?" situation.
There are plenty of works that got a "Tibetan monk"(which is an old trope in itself) like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure which is popular in China.
As a Chinese I don't think a Tibetan character would necessarily cause controvesy, but there is a huge "what if?" considering the huge investment in those movies as compared other form of media.
And there is an ever growing dislike for the western portrayal of China, which stems from media to entertainment industry. Which I would say 90% of the time, the reports about the country that is your potential rival is always gonna be biased and political driven to some extent.
And all it takes is ShangChi's Fun Manchu connection to make it irredeemable in some's eyes.(Long term readers or people who care to know the complicated history of comic industry probably would understand the historical context and such, but I don't think it's helping much. It probably won't affect the final performance of the movie though.)
Also you probably should distinguish between a "Official Ban"(which due to the flawed censorship and rating system we currently have, works got banned or demonetized for all kinds of dumb reasons, yeah the law and regulations really needs to be polished and refined.) and "boycott"(for actual reasons or the ones out of paranoia, which can happen when this one guy discover something offensive, works pretty much the same in Twitter and other social media, they just got offended for different sort of things). The latter could lead to the former though.

[GenericUsername]

Yeah if they don't handle Shang Chi well, then I don't see anymore confidence in western portrayals.

[leokearon]

That's pretty sad. The higher ups should lay down the law and say NO MORE REVIVALS!

It wouldn't matter, higher ups change so even if one lot say no more revivals, they next lot could undo it. Happens all the time in comics

[leokearon]

https://www.cbr.com/yellow-hulk-marv...vengers-debut/

As well as the Yellow Hulk, there is also the Golden Witch (a mind controlled Wanda)

[Albert1981]

Ancient One and the Mandarin are more like a "why risk it?" situation.
There are plenty of works that got a "Tibetan monk"(which is an old trope in itself) like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure which is popular in China.
As a Chinese I don't think a Tibetan character would necessarily cause controvesy, but there is a huge "what if?" considering the huge investment in those movies as compared other form of media.
And there is an ever growing dislike for the western portrayal of China, which stems from media to entertainment industry. Which I would say 90% of the time, the reports about the country that is your potential rival is always gonna be biased and political driven to some extent.
And all it takes is ShangChi's Fun Manchu connection to make it irredeemable in some's eyes.(Long term readers or people who care to know the complicated history of comic industry probably would understand the historical context and such, but I don't think it's helping much. It probably won't affect the final performance of the movie though.)
Also you probably should distinguish between a "Official Ban"(which due to the flawed censorship and rating system we currently have, works got banned or demonetized for all kinds of dumb reasons, yeah the law and regulations really needs to be polished and refined.) and "boycott"(for actual reasons or the ones out of paranoia, which can happen when this one guy discover something offensive, works pretty much the same in Twitter and other social media, they just got offended for different sort of things). The latter could lead to the former though.

I think Disney is a pretty conservative corporation. I don't see them wanting to make be a "woke" company. They are interested in making money for its shareholders while entertaining as wide an audience as possible. That's why I don't think they'll EVER make R-rated movies. They probably figure by alienating foreign governments they would be cutting off massive sources of income while not actually changing the situations in those countries for the better. It's a bit of a cop-out, but I can see how they would think that way. Just by showing their films in as many countries as possible might change things for the better in those countries is what I think they feel. If Disney really wanted to rock the boat, they could cast Magneto as an Islamic survivor of the genocides in Bosnia or Myanmar or suffering hardships in Xinjiang, Kashmir, Chechnya or Palestine. But then he would probably end up leading a mutant "terrorist" force, and the Muslim world would be in an uproar. Disney wants people in Islamic countries to watch their movies and shows. So I don't think Disney will ever push the envelope when it comes to being "controversial".

[Albert1981]

It wouldn't matter, higher ups change so even if one lot say no more revivals, they next lot could undo it. Happens all the time in comics

Marvel should really come out with a list of Commandments and state that Thou Shalt Not Revive be in the top five of them. And all Marvel writers, artists and editors must adhere to them.

[Albert1981]

Yeah if they don't handle Shang Chi well, then I don't see anymore confidence in western portrayals.

I don't think you should be so pessimistic! The director of Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is Japanese-American. The screenwriter of the film is Chinese-American. The cast is practically all East Asian. Cretton and Callaham have made it abundantly clear that they want to modernize Shang-Chi and the Mandarin and remove negative stereotypes about Asians. And I think the MCU definitely wants more superheroes without actual superpowers to succeed in their movies. Shang-Chi is gonna be a big part of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-..._the_Ten_Rings

I think if this production team does not succeed in treating Shang Chi well, nobody can.

Sort of like Wandavision. To paraphrase an article I found online: "According to Jac Schaeffer, 4 of the 8 writers she has hired for WandaVision are women, and the majority of the show's overall production team is female. Seeing this kind of team working on a show like WandaVision makes us not only excited for the series but confident that Marvel is keeping up with the times' changing demands and what several big-name films have already embraced: diversity, both behind and in front of the camera, leads to better production."

If the writers of Wandavision fail to succeed, pretty much all hope of female superheroes playing leading roles in the MCU will be lost.

[Saffron]

The Russos, McFeely and Markus clearly disliked that vision. They de-emphasized Wanda's Eastern European roots and got rid of her accent. They gave her a wardrobe makeover. She became Americanized. And no references were made to HYDRA, her mind controlling the Avengers and her villainous past (I don't think Banner, Romanoff, Rhodey and Stark even hate her anymore). And questioning US military interventions abroad was replaced with questioning Avengers' actions in different parts of the world. The new writers and directors discussed Sokovia not as the Maximoffs' homeland, but as the place which brought about the Accords which tore the superheroes apart. They basically cut off Wanda emotionally from her place of birth. I know that this direction did stray a lot from Wanda's origins. But I agree it had to be done. To have Wanda remain a Gothic bitch with a chip on her shoulder against America would have made her a VERY unpopular character in my view. Her accent would have been too jarring. Her growing affection for Vis softened the rough edges of her personality and made her a really sympathetic figure. So even though Wanda became less comic book accurate as a character, she became more popular because of this new interpretation.

They're not going to recast the character so I'm ok with them dropping her ethnicity in the MCU...not that it was really present in the first place. They were vegabonds, which isn't an appropriate substitution for being Roma, but I don't think most non-Europeans know the difference.

I'm more annoyed that they've Americanized her. Not the fake accent, which I'm glad is gone because that was painful to listen to, but that doesn't mean they can't still portray her as culturally different, you know? It's probably easier to write for but it makes her and the whole MCU a bit more blander to me.

As for the new show, I'm glad there's going to be some humor in it. I hope Wanda herself gets to have more fun and I hope comic writers pick that up too, because she's been kinda a wet blanket this past decade.

Sort of like Wandavision. To paraphrase an article I found online: "According to Jac Schaeffer, 4 of the 8 writers she has hired for WandaVision are women, and the majority of the show's overall production team is female. Seeing this kind of team working on a show like WandaVision makes us not only excited for the series but confident that Marvel is keeping up with the times' changing demands and what several big-name films have already embraced: diversity, both behind and in front of the camera, leads to better production."

If the writers of Wandavision fail to succeed, pretty much all hope of female superheroes playing leading roles in the MCU will be lost.

I didn't know so many women were involved! It'll be interesting seeing Wanda largely written by women (beyond cameos and guest spots) for once, even if it isn't the comic version of her.

[Albert1981]

They're not going to recast the character so I'm ok with them dropping her ethnicity in the MCU...not that it was really present in the first place. They were vegabonds, which isn't an appropriate substitution for being Roma, but I don't think most non-Europeans know the difference.

I'm more annoyed that they've Americanized her. Not the fake accent, which I'm glad is gone because that was painful to listen to, but that doesn't mean they can't still portray her as culturally different, you know? It's probably easier to write for but it makes her and the whole MCU a bit more blander to me.

As for the new show, I'm glad there's going to be some humor in it. I hope Wanda herself gets to have more fun and I hope comic writers pick that up too, because she's been kinda a wet blanket this past decade.



I didn't know so many women were involved! It'll be interesting seeing Wanda largely written by women (beyond cameos and guest spots) for once, even if it isn't the comic version of her.

Wanda now definitely sounds like she's originally from Southern California as opposed to a fictional Eastern European country. I think Wanda and Pietro are Americanized to a certain extent in the comics, but their fashions and trips to Eastern Europe definitely make them seem foreign. To tell you the truth, their relationship with Magneto as a Holocaust survivor puts them firmly in the European camp as opposed to the American one. I think the MCU should definitely make Wanda honor her heritage more. Maybe keep a "slight" accent like she did in Civil War. Cook cuisines from Eastern Europe. Paprikash anybody? Perhaps she can listen to a lot of Eurotrash music on the radio. Go back to wearing beaded necklaces and bracelets. All these suggestions will likely NEVER happen in future movies with Wanda in them, however. That would make her more "international". I agree with you. The MCU is very British/Australian/New Zealander/American. Even future Muslim, East Asian, Latino and Native American superheroes will be VERY North American. That does make the MCU blander. The only superheroes who are more "foreign" sounding in the MCU are the ones in the Black Panther franchise. Marvel Comics to their credit tries to be more global in terms of its characters.

Yeah, I'm really curious to see how the women writers of Wandavision portray the Scarlet Witch. I know that horror/comedy writer Jade Bartlett was going to write Dr. Strange 2. I thought it was interesting Marvel Studios would hire a female writer to write a film which featured mostly male characters. But then she was replaced by Rick and Morty producer Michael Waldron. And horror/comedy director Sam Raimi came on board. So you know the Multiverse of Madness will probably be very funny too. Let's hope Wanda stays funny in the movies and she becomes funny in the comic books. She's never been funny enough in the comics in my opinion. Neither has Vision. I think this can change, however. But I think in order for her to be funny, it helps if she's paired with the Vision. Because their relationship is so flat-out bizarre and weird, it lends itself to comedy. The jokes she can make at his expense can be sustained for a LONG time. It would be amusing after a hard day's work of fighting Mephisto and/or Ultron, they came home and quarreled over trivial household matters. Because she's a witch and he's an android, it would be different than if a "normal" couple fought. The best move the MCU made in my opinion regarding Vision is to have Vis dress in human clothing most of the time. Lots of MCU viewers LOVE that aspect of his character because he was so dapper in the movies. In Wandavision, he might not be so stylish (in some clips his clothes look downright "lowbrow"), but that only makes him even more funny.