Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[leokearon]

If it's really Rachel, that's very odd, she isn't connected to magic, or Wanda, or the Avengers. But I'm excited about the idea.

Well Rachel does have just enough getting possessed/mind controlled as Wanda. Still maybe the fact that she doesn't have an obvious connection is the point, to have an outside perspective.

[Ferro]

Attachment 97384
Who are the characters behind Wanda here?

I see deadpool and the person with two red lines on the face looks like rachel grey

more importantly whats the source pls?

[Cruelrain]

IMG_20200608_144215.jpg

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...d-edition/amp/

[Ferro]

IMG_20200608_144215.jpg

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...d-edition/amp/

ah okay thank you.
also the helmeted person has what looks like an A on its forehead and wings on the side, its not magneto

[Cruelrain]

we won then

[Ferro]

Im not sure what it is, but im pretty certain its not magneto so i guess we all won yeah

[GenericUsername]

Magnified it on my large monitor and it appears to be Strange, DP, Rachel, Thor, Carnage and Daredevil. Which is an odd mix. It might have different covers with different characters since Doctor Doom's cover had different characters.

[Cruelrain]

The cover with Dr Doom has the characters who will team up with Wanda to stop him

[whitecrown]

Welp, again it's the Avengers' fault writers feel like to make torture porn out of the X-line of comics.
It's kinda strange when people seem to enjoy mutants being the underdog/cartoonishly oppressed, and then proceed to trash none-X characters for their "indifference to mutant suffering".

Yeah, I really don't like most X-Fans anymore. They should be better than this.

They aren't trashing here for no reason, they are probably thinking "Well if Chuck and Mags weren't there then Wanda wouldn't have gone No More Mutants, since it was there arguing that made her do it." Which is some really flawed logic

One would think that but actually one poster said that mutantkind might be heavily centralized around Wanda and Franklin Richards and that started a litany of attacks on Wanda and the Fantastic Four. Mostly Wanda and how personal attacks on how she is mentally off and how her choice in family is weird for marrying a "robot" and having imaginary children.

[whitecrown]

Thank you for the comments. They are much appreciated. Before I get into further trouble, I will say these will be my final remarks NOT related to Wanda here. I think Hawkeye as a character was destroyed by turning him into a family man (and that family had virtually no roles in the movies). I think the Thor movies showed different elements of that character, so I'm okay with him changing into what he became in Ragnarok and I'm happy him and Loki are popular now. I also think it's great that Feige has absolute control over things at Marvel now. I think it's great Ruffalo and Cheadle got chances to shine. And I think it was hilarious that Ultron actually SANG in Age of Ultron and when the Hulk crawled into his plane in that movie he muttered "Oh for God's sake." Thanks Joss!

I would have liked the love triangle from Cap's Kooky Quartet in the movies with Wanda liking Steve and Clint liking Wanda before Vision comes into the picture. I wonder if Loki and Wanda will ever get any screentime together or if he may impersonate her like in Mighty Avengers during Dark Reign.

But do you think if dudes like Dr. Strange and Doctor Doom flirted with black magic, they would lose control of themselves and need to be rescued by others? I kind of think not. I think there is a decent chance Wanda might get "possessed" again and do some bad **** "unintentionally". Creators at Marvel love that kind of drama. They've been loving it for thirty YEARS!

Yeah, I've never seen a male character have to deal with issues like that. It's always a female character who is inevitably corrupted by power and has to die or be written off for years like Jean, Wanda, Lorna, etc.

[whitecrown]

If it's really Rachel, that's very odd, she isn't connected to magic, or Wanda, or the Avengers. But I'm excited about the idea.

Same. Although didn't somebody say Janet was involved in this event a few pages back alongside Black Bolt, Blade, and a few others? I assumed it was her but I guess the facial markings do point to Rachel.

I wish it was Jean ugh

Me too. It's criminal that Jean and Wanda never get any panel time together.

[whitecrown]

I love his old stuff but if we go by this statement we would still only have the O5, because something new should not happen? Bet Marvel got a lot of not so nice letters than about the new group.

And compared to the stuff that happened for the last 15 to 20 years at last Hickmans X-Men are a lot more hopeful. It is just a more realistic stand on what Mutants need to do to take a stand after getting hunted for decades.

I suppose you're right. And there were some complaints about the O5 and how suddenly they were so popular now that they were gone and replaced. At least Hank was in Avengers, Bobby and Warren were in Champions, and Scott still in X-Men. Poor Jean was missing for several months before Claremont wrote her back in since he never wanted her off the team but the art was already drawn to show her leaving.

I disagree that Hickman's take on the X-Men is more hopeful though. It feels more cynical if you ask me especially when Apocalypse or Sinister are being exalted as paragons of mutant goodness. I 100% understand why fans wouldn't want Wanda associated with this in the MCU.

[Albert1981]

I would have liked the love triangle from Cap's Kooky Quartet in the movies with Wanda liking Steve and Clint liking Wanda before Vision comes into the picture. I wonder if Loki and Wanda will ever get any screentime together or if he may impersonate her like in Mighty Avengers during Dark Reign.



Yeah, I've never seen a male character have to deal with issues like that. It's always a female character who is inevitably corrupted by power and has to die or be written off for years like Jean, Wanda, Lorna, etc.

We've had extensive discussions on these threads about the "crazy powerful women" trope. And it has been used on people like Jean, Wanda and Lorna REPEATEDLY. Lots of people love the idea of these powerful women going through extreme traumas and reacting to these tragic situations by murdering anybody that they can get their hands on (family and friends are preferable). And because of their transgressions, they HAVE to be abandoned or even outright killed by the people who supposedly "love" them. No sympathy is required here. Especially if these women don't understand their powers and are begging for help from the people who are supposed to care about them. And often times these characters are "possessed" and/or being "brainwashed" into committing such heinous acts. That is yet ANOTHER trope. In addition to that, once they gain said powers, these women almost always are portrayed as representing the dangers of "sexually liberated" women who follow their base desires (basically they become slutty). That's trope number THREE. As Leo was saying earlier, such characters can NEVER be forgiven. Their past mistakes are rubbed in their faces at every opportunity (Hank Pym and Wanda are two Avengers who have gone through this a LOT). I often joke that Scarlet Witch should just change her name to Scarlet Letter. However, on a VERY positive note, things might be slowly changing. I am encouraged and take great satisfaction in the fact that lately more people seem to be rejecting these old (some say ancient) ideas about powerful women. Dark Phoenix and Game of Thrones' last season were NOT well-received because of these really stale and downright lazy notions of how women should behave when accessing great power. As I have stated on these boards, I see NO signs that Wanda will kill and/or anybody in WandaVision. You don't have to be a hardcore feminist to understand the two main female writers of the show, Jac Schaeffer and Megan McDonnell, will NEVER tolerate these kinds of tropes on their watch. For lots of people, women are just simply more irrational and emotional than men. And they can't be trusted to handle great powers and/or responsibilities. When it comes to Marvel Comics, however, all bets are off. The creators there seem pretty keen on maintaining these kinds of stereotypes. I have much less confidence and optimism on that front.

We've also had EXTENSIVE discussions on Pietro's and Wanda's parentage here as well. It's like a Whose the Daddy? kind of thing you would see on the Maury Show. I know of no other children in the Marvel Universe who've had their parental origins questioned and changed to such an extent and so often. It's literally become an absolute JOKE! I'm surprised that nobody has gotten weary and bored of these fights and debates because they keep on raging up to this HOUR. There's just so much unnecessary and prolonged drama here on this matter that I've totally changed my views on the issue. I used to think it was a cool and interesting dynamic keeping Magneto, Polaris and the twins related and wished that the MCU would have brought that into the movies. But after finding out about what happened to Wanda and Pietro because of their "family", I just want Kevin Feige and company to make Professor X and Magneto into black characters. Just so this insanity can FINALLY be put to bed (for the films), you know? With the unprecedented tensions and unrest gripping the world over racial issues right now, I think it's a growing possibility that Disney is actually gonna make this happen. And this is coming from a dude who is NOT really interested in becoming a social justice warrior and/or being a woke person and/or wanting diversity for diversity's sake.

On a final note, I want to repeat that I don't hate X-fans at all. I think the idea of the X-Men is absolutely noble and worth celebrating. Their stories are so amazing and they helped make Marvel what it is today, no question about it. And their message of positive change and hope is needed more than ever these days. I just find it sad that Wanda and Pietro are two characters that are totally dividing the X-fan and Avenger-fan communities. From what I read, the whole House of M stuff is a really compelling and dramatic story. You can never please everybody with such a controversial event, but I definitely understand why it remains popular and enduring to this day (even though Wanda fans hate it). I know it added a lot of pathos to the story of the mutants in the Marvel universe, so I get why people (mostly X-fans) enjoyed such a unique tale. So that story was massively beneficial to the X-Men. But from what I understand, it DESTROYED the Avengers. Heroes were killed, relationships ruined and long-time Avengers had their characters assassinated. Maybe Avengers and Marvel sales were dropping at a time when Marvel Comics was going through a difficult period (I left comics around that time), so I "get" why Bendis and Quesada felt they HAD to do something shocking and different to boost sales. Perhaps they needed a way to reduce the huge mutant population in the Marvel Universe (that they were NOT responsible for) and couldn't think of another way to it than the way they did. I GET that. I also won't deny Pietro's and Wanda's mutant heritage. It's unquestionably a HUGE part of their story. Same thing with their on-and-off again relationship with Magneto. So I can sympathize with X-fans' position on wanting to keep him as their dad. I just find it amusing that Avengers fans want Wanda's relationship with Vision to be explored and X-Men followers want Wanda's ties with Magneto to be focused upon (when it comes to the movies). I know it's a generalization, but I don't think I'm too far off. I actually think having problematic relationships between somewhat "villainous" parents and "heroic" children can make for some unbelievably compelling storytelling, you know? In fact, one of my favorites is between Nightcrawler (he is my all-time favorite X-Man and I hope he's still somewhat heroic today) and Mystique. I find their relationship to be strained and poignant, but it didn't actually damage either of them too much. What I'm saying it's not problematic like the one between Magneto and his (former) twins and Hank Pym and Ultron. Those two relationships have brought nothing but suffering and misery for everybody involved. I just want damaging and outdated stereotypes and tropes to be done away with and Marvel characters from both the mutant and non-mutant worlds to have a reasonably functional relationship. I'm probably in a minority of one here and I expect my views to be probably really unpopular though.

[Albert1981]

Yeah, I really don't like most X-Fans anymore. They should be better than this.



One would think that but actually one poster said that mutantkind might be heavily centralized around Wanda and Franklin Richards and that started a litany of attacks on Wanda and the Fantastic Four. Mostly Wanda and how personal attacks on how she is mentally off and how her choice in family is weird for marrying a "robot" and having imaginary children.

And yet for Wanda and Pietro to have an incestuous relationship is totally acceptable and cool while Wanda marrying a "robot" is absolutely disgusting and outrageous!

[whitecrown]

We've had extensive discussions on these threads about the "crazy powerful women" trope. And it has been used on people like Jean, Wanda and Lorna REPEATEDLY. Lots of people love the idea of these powerful women going through extreme traumas and reacting to these tragic situations by murdering anybody that they can get their hands on (family and friends are preferable). And because of their transgressions, they HAVE to be abandoned or even outright killed by the people who supposedly "love" them. No sympathy is required here. Especially if these women don't understand their powers and are begging for help from the people who are supposed to care about them. And often times these characters are "possessed" and/or being "brainwashed" into committing such heinous acts. That is yet ANOTHER trope. In addition to that, once they gain said powers, these women almost always are portrayed as representing the dangers of "sexually liberated" women who follow their base desires (basically they become slutty). That's trope number THREE. As Leo was saying earlier, such characters can NEVER be forgiven. Their past mistakes are rubbed in their faces at every opportunity (Hank Pym and Wanda are two Avengers who have gone through this a LOT). I often joke that Scarlet Witch should just change her name to Scarlet Letter. However, on a VERY positive note, things might be slowly changing. I am encouraged and take great satisfaction in the fact that lately more people seem to be rejecting these old (some say ancient) ideas about powerful women. Dark Phoenix and Game of Thrones' last season were NOT well-received because of these really stale and downright lazy notions of how women should behave when accessing great power. As I have stated on these boards, I see NO signs that Wanda will kill and/or anybody in WandaVision. You don't have to be a hardcore feminist to understand the two main female writers of the show, Jac Schaeffer and Megan McDonnell, will NEVER tolerate these kinds of tropes on their watch. For lots of people, women are just simply more irrational and emotional than men. And they can't be trusted to handle great powers and/or responsibilities. When it comes to Marvel Comics, however, all bets are off. The creators there seem pretty keen on maintaining these kinds of stereotypes. I have much less confidence and optimism on that front.

We've also had EXTENSIVE discussions on Pietro's and Wanda's parentage here as well. It's like a Whose the Daddy? kind of thing you would see on the Maury Show. I know of no other children in the Marvel Universe who've had their parental origins questioned and changed to such an extent and so often. It's literally become an absolute JOKE! I'm surprised that nobody has gotten weary and bored of these fights and debates because they keep on raging up to this HOUR. There's just so much unnecessary and prolonged drama here on this matter that I've totally changed my views on the issue. I used to think it was a cool and interesting dynamic keeping Magneto, Polaris and the twins related and wished that the MCU would have brought that into the movies. But after finding out about what happened to Wanda and Pietro because of their "family", I just want Kevin Feige and company to make Professor X and Magneto into black characters. Just so this insanity can FINALLY be put to bed (for the films), you know? With the unprecedented tensions and unrest gripping the world over racial issues right now, I think it's a growing possibility that Disney is actually gonna make this happen. And this is coming from a dude who is NOT really interested in becoming a social justice warrior and/or being a woke person and/or wanting diversity for diversity's sake.

On a final note, I want to repeat that I don't hate X-fans at all. I think the idea of the X-Men is absolutely noble and worth celebrating. Their stories are so amazing and they helped make Marvel what it is today, no question about it. And their message of positive change and hope is needed more than ever these days. I just find it sad that Wanda and Pietro are two characters that are totally dividing the X-fan and Avenger-fan communities. From what I read, the whole House of M stuff is a really compelling and dramatic story. You can never please everybody with such a controversial event, but I definitely understand why it remains popular and enduring to this day (even though Wanda fans hate it). I know it added a lot of pathos to the story of the mutants in the Marvel universe, so I get why people (mostly X-fans) enjoyed such a unique tale. So that story was massively beneficial to the X-Men. But from what I understand, it DESTROYED the Avengers. Heroes were killed, relationships ruined and long-time Avengers had their characters assassinated. Maybe Avengers and Marvel sales were dropping at a time when Marvel Comics was going through a difficult period (I left comics around that time), so I "get" why Bendis and Quesada felt they HAD to do something shocking and different to boost sales. Perhaps they needed a way to reduce the huge mutant population in the Marvel Universe (that they were NOT responsible for) and couldn't think of another way to it than the way they did. I GET that. I also won't deny Pietro's and Wanda's mutant heritage. It's unquestionably a HUGE part of their story. Same thing with their on-and-off again relationship with Magneto. So I can sympathize with X-fans' position on wanting to keep him as their dad. I just find it amusing that Avengers fans want Wanda's relationship with Vision to be explored and X-Men followers want Wanda's ties with Magneto to be focused upon (when it comes to the movies). I know it's a generalization, but I don't think I'm too far off. I actually think having problematic relationships between somewhat "villainous" parents and "heroic" children can make for some unbelievably compelling storytelling, you know? In fact, one of my favorites is between Nightcrawler (he is my all-time favorite X-Man and I hope he's still somewhat heroic today) and Mystique. I find their relationship to be strained and poignant, but it didn't actually damage either of them too much. What I'm saying it's not problematic like the one between Magneto and his (former) twins and Hank Pym and Ultron. Those two relationships have brought nothing but suffering and misery for everybody involved. I just want damaging and outdated stereotypes and tropes to be done away with and Marvel characters from both the mutant and non-mutant worlds to have a reasonably functional relationship. I'm probably in a minority of one here and I expect my views to be probably really unpopular though.

I've never been a huge Hank Pym fan but I feel terrible for his character and fandom because he's probably even more villified than Wanda if you look at Marvel at a whole (just not in the X-Men fandom where apparently burning Wanda at the stake is the solution to everything). I like what you said that the crazy, woman trope is outdated now and the MCU seems way beyond that. If we ever get a new Dark Phoenix Saga adaptation, I hope it won't involve Jean dying for once. Similarly enough, if we do get a House of M adaptation or something like Avengers Disassembled, I hope it doesn't treat Wanda like how she was treated in the comics. I have a lot of faith in Wanda/Vision that this won't happen though and can I just say that as a big fan of Sam Raimi and his Spider-Man films, I'm very much excited for the fact that he's working on the Doctor Strange sequel with Wanda. I hope he's a fan of her character.

I wouldn't say I hate X-Fans, especially since I am one myself, but the vast majority of the ones I've encountered here and on other social media sites are incredibly toxic to anyone who doesn't have a mutant gene and/or the X symbol. I'm just glad that Wanda has the support of the Avengers and their fandoms because I would never want her or the Wanda fandom to be left alone to the rabid X-Fans considering the fact that they've created just three threads in one day to hate on her. She should get with Steve Rogers just for the sole purpose of pissing them off since he's the only other one they seem to hate as much as her (and I've always liked the idea of Steve and Wanda together if it couldn't be Vision). Avengers Disassembled certainly destroyed the Avengers but I wouldn't say House of M did, besides leaving Wanda in limbo for several more years. If anything, House of M helped the Avengers since it brought Clint back and allowed Carol to realize her full potential as a superheroine. That was the first time she was considered an A-List superhero who was the most popular one in that reality and now in the real world, we've come to a time where she's easily Marvel's leading lady. As for Kurt, I think he's still generally heroic (especially since he was dead during the X-Men's darkest period where the team was basically mutant terrorists led by all villains), although like every other X-Man, he's swept up in the Krakoa island nation politics right now. Which probably won't make much sense to you and don't worry because it doesn't make much sense to anyone, Chris Claremont included.

And yet for Wanda and Pietro to have an incestuous relationship is totally acceptable and cool while Wanda marrying a "robot" is absolutely disgusting and outrageous!

They're throwing whatever they consider as ammo against the character, never mind that several X-Characters have way more complicated and convoluted backgrounds. Nothing is as ridiculous as the attacks on Franklin's hair color lol.