Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[leokearon]

Yeah, I remember Mephisto had Master Pandemonium to do his bidding there. That panel with Master Pandemonium's hands being the twins was one of the most fucked up ones I have ever seen. It was truly sick. I didn't know Mephisto is in so much demand when it comes to superhero breakups. What's the going rate for divorce lawyers in the Marvel Universe? Are only billionaires like Tony Stark able to afford them that these other heroes have to resort to getting Mephisto to annul their marriages? Or maybe Wanda, Parker and Stephen were just cheap...

Marvel don't like to use divorce, they prefer to have Demons just make the marriage go away.

[Albert1981]

Those were all retcons, Mephisto wasn't involved in any of their original origins, so they can easily remove Mephisto.

Those were all retcons?! Figures!

[Albert1981]

Marvel don't like to use divorce, they prefer to have Demons just make the marriage go away.

How creative. I would prefer that they use Judge Judy.

[whitecrown]

Yeah, I think you're right. Blade, Moon Knight and Ghost Rider are basically anti-heroes with some horror elements to them. I don't know how Disney is going to make them PG-13 in the MCU. One way to do it is to get rid of the gore and make them funny. Which is basically the Marvel formula these days. I like the Disney+ format best because you can tell in-depth stories in more of longform and continuous format. With movies and their sequels, breaks between them just chop things up in my opinion. The A-Force stuff definitely sounds interesting. I never heard of them before until recently. I'm just hoping if they do it they have a good story to base it on and not just because they want to send a superficial message about "girl power". I think Feige can pull it off though if he wants to go in that direction. I actually don't mind Vision and Wanda being funny in the MCU. As I stated before, I have read several comments online that they are one of the most "boring" couples in the MCU. I disagree with that sentiment. It's just that they're more serious and didn't really have time to banter during their time in the movies. From what I hear, Vis and Wanda in their new series will be doing plenty of "bantering", which is cool because it will add new dimensions to their characters. And it will probably solidify them as the most important couple in the Marvel Universe, which I believe they are. I'm looking forward to the first episode with the family having dinner. A part of me wants Ultron to crash the party as that "annoying father-in-law" to Wanda. He could start things off by asking where Tony is, and Wanda would say he's dead. Then Ultron would scream: YES! I'm kind of wondering who's going to be at that meal. I highly doubt that Disney would put Bova and Wonder Man there. Maybe Wanda's folks? Definitely Quicksilver and Agatha Harkness.

I'm glad Feige is such a big fan of Vision. Because a happy Vision usually means a happy Wanda. So I expect both of them to be great in their show. But I agree with you about Pietro. Despite what people on the Internet say, I don't think he's coming back in a meaningful way. The MCU has already got a couple of new speedsters joining it. So they need to give him some time in WandaVision in order for him to get the proper respect and send-off he deserves. We know that the Hulk and possibly characters like War Machine can get chances to shine later on. I think this show is it for Vision and Quicksilver. I believe the MCU has a lot riding on Strange. He's going to become the face of the franchise for a while after Thor and Loki depart from the scene.

If they're coming on Disney+ then it's an automatic guarantee that those characters will never be rated anything beyond PG-13 so there won't be any blood or gore. I imagine they'll have to come up with a premise for A-Force to band the women together but right now I've heard they want She-Hulk as the leader instead of Captain Marvel like in the comics. I hope Jessica Drew will be around then to be part of the team. It's ironic that Wanda and Vision are being called one of the most boring couples in the MCU when you have Thor and Jane Foster on one side and Hulk and Black Widow (or Betty) on the other. Not to mention Clint and his wife. Wanda/Vision are probably also the biggest couple in the MCU besides Cap/Peggy. I don't mind humor but I hope Wanda and Vision aren't turned into characters they aren't just for the sake of making them more palatable. It makes sense they'd be cracking jokes in a sitcom format but once Wanda comes back to normal and realizes how much she has lost, I can't see that sticking around. I doubt Bova and Wonder Man would appear either except for maybe a Simon cameo. Has there been any confirmation on Agatha Harkness?

What other speedsters are joining the MCU? The only one I can think of would be Speed and he's not confirmed yet. I forgot, what show is War Machine going to be in? Does he have his own now? I've heard Marvel plans Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and Doctor Strange as the new big three replacing Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

[Albert1981]

If they're coming on Disney+ then it's an automatic guarantee that those characters will never be rated anything beyond PG-13 so there won't be any blood or gore. I imagine they'll have to come up with a premise for A-Force to band the women together but right now I've heard they want She-Hulk as the leader instead of Captain Marvel like in the comics. I hope Jessica Drew will be around then to be part of the team. It's ironic that Wanda and Vision are being called one of the most boring couples in the MCU when you have Thor and Jane Foster on one side and Hulk and Black Widow (or Betty) on the other. Not to mention Clint and his wife. Wanda/Vision are probably also the biggest couple in the MCU besides Cap/Peggy. I don't mind humor but I hope Wanda and Vision aren't turned into characters they aren't just for the sake of making them more palatable. It makes sense they'd be cracking jokes in a sitcom format but once Wanda comes back to normal and realizes how much she has lost, I can't see that sticking around. I doubt Bova and Wonder Man would appear either except for maybe a Simon cameo. Has there been any confirmation on Agatha Harkness?

What other speedsters are joining the MCU? The only one I can think of would be Speed and he's not confirmed yet. I forgot, what show is War Machine going to be in? Does he have his own now? I've heard Marvel plans Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and Doctor Strange as the new big three replacing Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

I've heard some talk that War Machine MIGHT show up somewhere to finish his arc. Something to do with Ironheart. Who knows if it will actually happen? The Thor and Jane and Hulk and Black Widow pairings just fell flat, I totally agree with you. Those relationships just didn't work. By the way isn't Betty Ross Hulk's girl? Hemsworth and Portman are great, but they NEVER have chemistry with their co-stars for some odd reason. I think Vision and Wanda will be funny for a while, yes, but I agree with you that I think that probably won't last. Which in my view is a shame. I don't want Wanda to turn into another typical female superhero in the MCU. So many of them have NO personalities and are really ALOOF. And they aren't permitted to be goofy and fun. In fact, women are often portrayed VERY poorly in superhero movies, not just MCU ones, in my opinion. I want Wanda to maintain a great personality. I think her kind and gentle nature is making her popular. I don't want to see that changed. I think it's likely Harkness will be there. I mean, she HAS to, you know? She's such a big part of Wanda's life in the comics. Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Dr. Strange have HUGE shoes to fill. I'm already nostalgic for the old days!

I think Speed will be a new speedster. But I have read online that there is a character named Makkari in the Eternals who is plenty fast too. I don't know much about them though. So if Speed and Makkari are there along with Pietro there will be three. And for some reason Marvel sucks at writing about speedsters so I'm not sure if they want too many heroes having the same powers ESPECIALLY when speed is involved. I guess it could work though.

[whitecrown]

I've heard some talk that War Machine MIGHT show up somewhere to finish his arc. Something to do with Ironheart. Who knows if it will actually happen. The Thor and Jane and Hulk and Black Widow pairings just fell flat, I totally agree with you. I just don't understand how that could work. Isn't Betty Ross Hulk's girl? Hemsworth and Portman are great, but they NEVER have chemistry with their co-stars for some odd reason. I think Vision and Wanda will be funny for a while, yes, but I agree with you that I think that probably won't last. Which in my view is a shame. I don't want Wanda to turn into another typical female superhero in the MCU. So many of them have NO personalities and are really ALOOF. And they aren't permitted to be goofy and fun. In fact, women are often portrayed VERY poorly in superhero movies, not just MCU ones, in my opinion. I want Wanda to maintain a great personality. I think her kind and gentle nature is making her popular. I don't want to see that changed. I think it's likely Harkness will be there. I mean, she HAS to, you know? She's such a big part of Wanda's life in the comics. Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Dr. Strange have HUGE shoes to fill. I'm already nostalgic for the old days!

I think Speed will be a new speedster. But I have read online that there is a character named Makkari in the Eternals who is plenty fast too. I don't know much about them though. So if Speed and Makkari are there along with Pietro there will be three. And for some reason Marvel sucks at writing about speedsters so I'm not sure if they want too many heroes having the same powers. I guess it could work though.

I forgot about Ironheart. With Tony gone, Rhodey would make the most sense to introduce her. Betty was supposed to be paired with Bruce but she never appeared again and her only film is pretty much ignored by Marvel. I'm not a fan of most of the Marvel female superheroes right now since I never cared for Widow or Mantis and I like Gamora but I wouldn't say I love her. Wasp was completely wasted. Wanda and Carol have been the only two I've liked so far, I personally wouldn't want either of them to be altered. Maybe Harkness will have some sort of role in Doctor Strange 2 but I do hope she appears in Wanda/Vision.

I forgot about the Eternals. Don't know much about them but that doesn't bode well for Quicksilver then. And I agree that Marvel has never been very good when it comes to speedsters.

[Albert1981]

I forgot about Ironheart. With Tony gone, Rhodey would make the most sense to introduce her. Betty was supposed to be paired with Bruce but she never appeared again and her only film is pretty much ignored by Marvel. I'm not a fan of most of the Marvel female superheroes right now since I never cared for Widow or Mantis and I like Gamora but I wouldn't say I love her. Wasp was completely wasted. Wanda and Carol have been the only two I've liked so far, I personally wouldn't want either of them to be altered. Maybe Harkness will have some sort of role in Doctor Strange 2 but I do hope she appears in Wanda/Vision.

I forgot about the Eternals. Don't know much about them but that doesn't bode well for Quicksilver then. And I agree that Marvel has never been very good when it comes to speedsters.

I actually think that's one of the greatest failings of the MCU. Writing for women. The dudes are largely written fine. Wanda has been written differently than other females...And I mean that in a GOOD way. For some reason, I found that unlike other couples in the MCU, Vision and Wanda are a little bit sad in their interactions. I just can't put my finger on it. There's this melancholy feeling about them. And I find that oddly appealing because that makes them stand out so much from the rest of the jolly MCU. I'm not sure if I'm the only one who feels that way. I think I know why you don't love Gamora as well. She was beginning to soften up and to develop a personality in the Guardians movies and in the Infinity War. But then all of that character development was destroyed in Endgame when her "previous" self kicked Star-Lord in the balls. She was back to being a humorless and standoffish "bitch". Same thing with Loki. He had this amazing character arc where he gradually abandoned his villainous ways and finally won the respect and love of his brother. Then in Endgame that character development was ruined because an "earlier" villainous version of himself returned. It's horrible writing to use time travel shenanigans to bring back dead people. I just want to clear something up with Cruelrain (and I totally don't mean to offend him/her and I definitely understand why he/she might have misunderstood me earlier). I NEVER said that I want Wanda to be weak and delicate. I just think if you make Wanda almost omnipotent, it will make it harder for audiences to connect with her. And if she does get close to being all-powerful, writers could definitely change her personality to become arrogant and conceited. I would hate to see that happen. Superheroes have to overcome obstacles and sometimes have to lose in order to win in the end later. And I agree with the MCU's decision to depower some of their characters. It definitely makes them more grounded and relatable for many television/movie watchers. I know that approach works with me. The MCU is still TRYING to stay rooted in reality as much as it can and I hope they continue to do that. I agree with whitecrown about Widow, Mantis, Gamora and the Wasp. Their characters have not achieved their full potential. Ironically, I thought the Wasp was written much better in the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes!

[Albert1981]

You know what's funny? When you watch Bettany and Olsen do interviews before WandaVision was announced, you could tell they were happy and grateful to be part of the MCU. At the same time, you could also tell that they wanted to do MORE. I mean they were really professional, and Olsen was quite bubbly. But I always felt Bettany was kind of bored and hated the whole make-up thing. Nice guy though. I mean, he made some jokes that Wanda and Vision should do "relationship therapists" scenes together, but I got the impression he was kind of indifferent to his character. But ever since WandaVision became official, it's like he's became a TOTALLY different person. His enthusiasm for the show is seriously equal to Olsen's and Bettany does not usually do enthusiasm. It kind of makes me wonder what the heck is Vision gonna be doing in this series? It must be something really interesting and funny if he's so excited. Wanda is definitely the lead character for this show (and she SHOULD be) and we can sort of get an idea of what Wanda will be doing in it based on the comic books, but I think Vision is the more mysterious character of the two. I also think it's amusing that Bettany can't seem to describe WandaVision very well NOT merely because he's trying to keep secrets, but because it's so bizarre.

I'm encouraged about the potential success of this show because Bettany constantly praises showrunner Jac Schaeffer. I don't know much about her and I have not seen any of her solo work before. But Marvel Studios seems to have a great deal of confidence in her. She was one of SEVEN writers for Captain Marvel, so I don't know the extent of her contribution there. I know she was called in to do more comedy dialogue in Captain Marvel, so I believe she is suited for WandaVision.

I do appreciate Feige and his team wanting to do something a little bit experimental, avant-garde and downright weird for this series. It's definitely taking a HUGE risk, but I think it's definitely worth it because the payoff could be massive and it would help Dr. Strange 2 big time later on. Even if the show "fails", I won't blame Marvel Studios for trying to do something different and new. But I don't think it will because the creators seem quite confident in their product.

I've also stated that I think Pietro will be back. But I don't think he'll have his Sokovian accent. I believe that would be an annoying distraction. And I don't think he'll be returning to his dickish ways either. It's even possible he might bond with Vision unlike in the comics, you know? I just don't believe they're gonna portray him as a jerk at this point. Like, in an effort to help Vision become "more human", Quicksilver could take him to a burlesque show or something, and Wanda would go ballistic. I doubt Disney would actually go this route, but I'm saying that I think Pietro will be "re-imagined" in the MCU just like Hank Pym was. I would like to see Pietro and Vision be chill dudes and Wanda be really funny.

[GenericUsername]

Marvel don't like to use divorce, they prefer to have Demons just make the marriage go away.

Vision did officially annul the marriage during Busiek's run. But it always felt to me like Vision was punishing himself by doing that. Like he felt like that's what he deserved. He's always had depression, and I feel like he was trying to hurt himself with that. Which in turn hurt Wanda a lot too.

[leokearon]

Vision did officially annul the marriage during Busiek's run. But it always felt to me like Vision was punishing himself by doing that. Like he felt like that's what he deserved. He's always had depression, and I feel like he was trying to hurt himself with that. Which in turn hurt Wanda a lot too.

Of course, in the eyes of some, a marriage between a woman and a robot in another dimension by the self-proclaimed Lord of Limbo didn't have much legal standing in the US to start off with.

[Albert1981]

Of course, in the eyes of some, a marriage between a woman and a robot in another dimension by the self-proclaimed Lord of Limbo didn't have much legal standing in the US to start off with.

To rectify this previous oversight, maybe in WandaVision, Vision and Wanda will tie the knot in a Las Vegas Chapel. Elvis will officiate the proceedings and the whole thing will be kosher.

I found an old video in which Matt Shakman and Jac Schaeffer seem to indicate that all the major questions fans have been asking regarding WandaVision WILL be answered in a somewhat logical and coherent manner. That's what I think we're all hoping for. Judging from the clip, it does seem the series will be really funny and like I mentioned to GenericUsername, Sutekh and Leokearon earlier, COOKING might play a decent role in the show. Maybe Wanda will finally teach Vision how much a pinch of paprika actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKqXabfWwqY

I did hear Schaeffer say that since WandaVision is a Marvel story, it "can't always be puppies and rainbows all the time." She stated that "we have the sitcom piece, and sitcoms by their nature are essentially conflict-free. But it can't be like that in the MCU." So I agree with whitecrown and Cruelrain when they say that things will get a little bit sadder at the end of the show. And for me personally, I'm absolutely okay with that. That would just make things more interesting!

[whitecrown]

I actually think that's one of the greatest failings of the MCU. Writing for women. The dudes are largely written fine. Wanda has been written differently than other females...And I mean that in a GOOD way. For some reason, I found that unlike other couples in the MCU, Vision and Wanda are a little bit sad in their interactions. I just can't put my finger on it. There's this melancholy feeling about them. And I find that oddly appealing because that makes them stand out so much from the rest of the jolly MCU. I'm not sure if I'm the only one who feels that way. I think I know why you don't love Gamora as well. She was beginning to soften up and to develop a personality in the Guardians movies and in the Infinity War. But then all of that character development was destroyed in Endgame when her "previous" self kicked Star-Lord in the balls. She was back to being a humorless and standoffish "bitch". Same thing with Loki. He had this amazing character arc where he gradually abandoned his villainous ways and finally won the respect and love of his brother. Then in Endgame that character development was ruined because an "earlier" villainous version of himself returned. It's horrible writing to use time travel shenanigans to bring back dead people. I just want to clear something up with Cruelrain (and I totally don't mean to offend him/her and I definitely understand why he/she might have misunderstood me earlier). I NEVER said that I want Wanda to be weak and delicate. I just think if you make Wanda almost omnipotent, it will make it harder for audiences to connect with her. And if she does get close to being all-powerful, writers could definitely change her personality to become arrogant and conceited. I would hate to see that happen. Superheroes have to overcome obstacles and sometimes have to lose in order to win in the end later. And I agree with the MCU's decision to depower some of their characters. It definitely makes them more grounded and relatable for many television/movie watchers. I know that approach works with me. The MCU is still TRYING to stay rooted in reality as much as it can and I hope they continue to do that. I agree with whitecrown about Widow, Mantis, Gamora and the Wasp. Their characters have not achieved their full potential. Ironically, I thought the Wasp was written much better in the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes!

If there's something tragic about their relationship I suppose its because she is human (or an enhanced human) and he isn't in Age of Ultron. In Civil War, they're on opposite sides. In Infinity War, he has to die. My lack of feeling towards Gamora is that I've never really read her in the comics so I have no familiarity with her beyond the MCU where I do like her, but when she was introduced as the only other female besides Black Widow, it just felt like she was Black Widow in space. But I agree that her premature death stagnated her growth. The original Loki at least I think is probably going to be resurrected or I hope so anyway rather than a past version being brought back. And I agree with you that while Wanda shouldn't be weak or delicate, she shouldn't be omnipotent either because that makes her into a plot device rather than a character and no one can connect with her. She needs human vulnerability which I think her character already has in the MCU. I've never seen Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes but I know that show had a huge fanbase and a lot of people learned to love Wasp from there. She was heavily cosplayed as well.

[Sutekh]

My lack of feeling towards Gamora is that I've never really read her in the comics so I have no familiarity with her beyond the MCU where I do like her, but when she was introduced as the only other female besides Black Widow, it just felt like she was Black Widow in space.

I do like that Wanda is different than the usual MCU woman-hero, Black Widow, Gamora, Okoye, Valkyrie, in that she's not some gruff battle-weary taciturn super-badass hand-to-hand fighter, but is both more emotionally expressive, and less 'fighty' by nature.

For awhile there, particularly with Gamora coming right on the heels of Black Widow, as the only 'super-women' in the MCU, it was beginning to feel a bit same-y, as if all women super-characters were doomed to be emotionally-stunted fighting machines (with all of the characterization and emotional heavy lifting being left to the super-dudes girlfriends, while Nat and Gams are all 'snarl, glower, kick ass').

[whitecrown]

I do like that Wanda is different than the usual MCU woman-hero, Black Widow, Gamora, Okoye, Valkyrie, in that she's not some gruff battle-weary taciturn super-badass hand-to-hand fighter, but is both more emotionally expressive, and less 'fighty' by nature.

For awhile there, particularly with Gamora coming right on the heels of Black Widow, as the only 'super-women' in the MCU, it was beginning to feel a bit same-y, as if all women super-characters were doomed to be emotionally-stunted fighting machines (with all of the characterization and emotional heavy lifting being left to the super-dudes girlfriends, while Nat and Gams are all 'snarl, glower, kick ass').

Exactly, that's why Wanda feels so unique. Especially since similar characters like Sue Storm or Jean Grey aren't in the MCU so Wanda comes across as even more unique powerset wise then.

They did try and develop Nat and Gamora in later films to mixed results. Nat got saddled with the Bruce Banner love story which fans unanimously hated which is why it was completely ignored since then. Gamora was more successful in repatching her relationship with Nebula...up until you know, her death. But a part of the reason I wasn't big into the MCU was because the only female characters were cut from the same cloth like Nat and Gamora. It wasn't until Age of Ultron with the introduction of Wanda, Pietro, and Vision that I grew a vested interest in the MCU.

[Relugus]

I am strongly hoping the villain is Chthon because that would make WandaVision Wanda's story, and her defying him would make Scarlet Witch a title she has earned, and it being so personal would make Vision's role vital. If its Nightmare or Mephisto they will likely only be defeated by Strange and Wanda won't even get a real win in her own show.

The whole thing of Chthon having planned this for eons (even calmly sitting back after the snap, knowing the Avengers would bring Wanda back), is far more interesting and compelling than Mephisto just randomly showing up one day and playing around for shits and giggles.

Unlike Mephisto, Chthon would actually fight Wanda, out of sheer curiosity. Chthon would be simultaneously annoyed and impressed by her.
Another thing is that SWORD learning about Chthon makes the Vampires potentially into targets, with SWORD perhaps pursuing Blade as a result.
Then there's Marc Spector, claiming to be the avatar of a deity. A claim that would be dismissed instantly...except if there were a known precedent of an avatar of a deity. SWORD might take Spector a little more seriously as a result.

Also, if Vision is a fragment (don't forget she touched the cradle and said "he's dreaming" before Vision was actually truly born) of Chaos Magic that returned to Wanda when the mind stone was destroyed.
"It's ok, I'll just feel you."
He willed himself to be with Wanda. To help her.
So, maybe he is a fragment living in this world, with Chthon as the other fragment. Maybe Chthon sees Vision and is even stunned; that was not part of his plan, perhaps.

Also, can you imagine how amazing an exchange between Chthon and Ultron could be if they met?

Vision is definitely not, as so many assume, imaginary, otherwise Bettany would not be so pleased with the show. Feuge said we learn what makes Vision Vision.

The presumptions that Vision ia just an illusion who does nothing, and that Agatha is a villain, seem more about sidelining and marginalizing those characters who get in the way of the aim of these speculators of shoehorning the X-Men in.

Wanda having to use sitcoms to create her happy place has a layer of tragedy to it, yet it also has a beauty as well; even despite all her loss, Wanda can still create something fun and beautiful.