Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[Kurt Busiek]

Of course, in the eyes of some, a marriage between a woman and a robot in another dimension by the self-proclaimed Lord of Limbo didn't have much legal standing in the US to start off with.

Hey, Vietnam is not neither another dimension!

kdb

[MaximoffTrash]

I am glad someone is pointing out Evan Peters could be playing Modred the Mystic.
I would like to see a modern interpretation of him, like him and Agatha both act like some friendly neighbors to Wanda, while being somewhat hostile to each other.

[leokearon]

Hey, Vietnam is not neither another dimension!

kdb

I thought they married in Limbo, must be due to Immortus being there

[Cruelrain]

My lack of feeling towards Gamora is that I've never really read her in the comics so I have no familiarity with her beyond the MCU where I do like her, but when she was introduced as the only other female besides Black Widow, it just felt like she was Black Widow in space.

To be fair Gamora is 100% better in the comics, they depowered the hell out of her to the point she seems weak than Black Widow, Black Widow in the MCU has More H2H showing and battles against Proxima, Winter Soldier and Clint, meanwhile Gamora is supposed to be the deadliest Woman on the universe but they never showed something of that, she doesn't have her super strenght, healing or durability at least they could make her a Hand To Hand máster like she is in the comics.

Another Marvel woman that suffered the same in the MCU is Mantis, who is a master in hand to hand and has several other powers than just Empathy.

[Albert1981]

If there's something tragic about their relationship I suppose its because she is human (or an enhanced human) and he isn't in Age of Ultron. In Civil War, they're on opposite sides. In Infinity War, he has to die. My lack of feeling towards Gamora is that I've never really read her in the comics so I have no familiarity with her beyond the MCU where I do like her, but when she was introduced as the only other female besides Black Widow, it just felt like she was Black Widow in space. But I agree that her premature death stagnated her growth. The original Loki at least I think is probably going to be resurrected or I hope so anyway rather than a past version being brought back. And I agree with you that while Wanda shouldn't be weak or delicate, she shouldn't be omnipotent either because that makes her into a plot device rather than a character and no one can connect with her. She needs human vulnerability which I think her character already has in the MCU. I've never seen Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes but I know that show had a huge fanbase and a lot of people learned to love Wasp from there. She was heavily cosplayed as well.

Glad you agree! Thanks. I never thought Wanda was weak. But let's face it, she got flat out defeated by Thanos and the Black Order in Infinity War. And that didn't dent her popularity AT ALL. So Wanda doesn't need to be kicking butt to be cool. Wanda's moment in Endgame was a big one for her but that was directly as a result of her failing in Infinity War. Wanda has been pretty emotional throughout her time in the MCU. But not in an over-the-top and melodramatic way. No self-pitying, but she's not afraid of showing she's scared and confused sometimes. I think other MCU female characters' popularity are being hurt by NOT being allowed to show any emotions. I read that Evangeline Lilly wanted to CRANK up the romantic element in the Ant-Man movies because she felt that viewers were not connecting with whole "ambitious and driven" women thing. Alas, I think it's too little too late on that front. I think Nebula is certainly an interesting and sympathetic character, but when she said that there was an idiot in the landing zone (she was talking about Scott Lang), I just felt that was a bit mean-spirited. I think Marvel Studios are confusing "fierce" with "strong" and "angry" with "tough" when it comes to their women characters. But for "civilian" girlfriends, I don't think they did much better. MJ very publicly declared Peter Parker to be a loser, made fun of Ned Leeds and Parker going to Liz Toomes' party and gave Peter the middle finger at that homecoming dance. Being spiteful is not a "winning" personality in my opinion. And Jane Foster fangirling all over Thor's muscles in the earlier Thor movies was just so lame too. She's one of the world's leading astrophysicists, but when she first met with the Norse God she acts like a lovesick groupie. Fucking pathetic. But I want to give Marvel Studios SOME credit. I think they realized their earlier mistakes, and I've kind of grown to like Black Widow more recently. I thought she was pretty great in Endgame actually. I want to see her in her new solo movie because Jac Schaeffer helped write it. That film could show how Schaeffer will approach the main characters in WandaVision.

They seem to think awesome displays of power and fighting skills ALONE will give these ladies personalities. I could not disagree more. At least the Wasp was quippy and a warrior in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPub9V0py2s

[Albert1981]

I am strongly hoping the villain is Chthon because that would make WandaVision Wanda's story, and her defying him would make Scarlet Witch a title she has earned, and it being so personal would make Vision's role vital. If its Nightmare or Mephisto they will likely only be defeated by Strange and Wanda won't even get a real win in her own show.

The whole thing of Chthon having planned this for eons (even calmly sitting back after the snap, knowing the Avengers would bring Wanda back), is far more interesting and compelling than Mephisto just randomly showing up one day and playing around for shits and giggles.

Unlike Mephisto, Chthon would actually fight Wanda, out of sheer curiosity. Chthon would be simultaneously annoyed and impressed by her.
Another thing is that SWORD learning about Chthon makes the Vampires potentially into targets, with SWORD perhaps pursuing Blade as a result.
Then there's Marc Spector, claiming to be the avatar of a deity. A claim that would be dismissed instantly...except if there were a known precedent of an avatar of a deity. SWORD might take Spector a little more seriously as a result.

Also, if Vision is a fragment (don't forget she touched the cradle and said "he's dreaming" before Vision was actually truly born) of Chaos Magic that returned to Wanda when the mind stone was destroyed.
"It's ok, I'll just feel you."
He willed himself to be with Wanda. To help her.
So, maybe he is a fragment living in this world, with Chthon as the other fragment. Maybe Chthon sees Vision and is even stunned; that was not part of his plan, perhaps.

Also, can you imagine how amazing an exchange between Chthon and Ultron could be if they met?

Vision is definitely not, as so many assume, imaginary, otherwise Bettany would not be so pleased with the show. Feuge said we learn what makes Vision Vision.

The presumptions that Vision ia just an illusion who does nothing, and that Agatha is a villain, seem more about sidelining and marginalizing those characters who get in the way of the aim of these speculators of shoehorning the X-Men in.

Wanda having to use sitcoms to create her happy place has a layer of tragedy to it, yet it also has a beauty as well; even despite all her loss, Wanda can still create something fun and beautiful.

If Mephisto and Nightmare show up in WandaVision, it will be basically a PRELUDE to Dr. Strange 2. Those are Strange's enemies. And there's a decent chance either of them will kill Vision and Pietro and take the twins and defeat Wanda before getting rescued by Strange. And the story will be "TO BE CONTINUED" in the Multiverse of Madness. And Wanda's story will be Strange's. But there's a chance this might not happen. We'll see if Chthon will show up. I think Ultron and his murder bots could appear in the form of demonic projections as well. But that admittedly is a bit of a longshot. I also highly doubt Vision will be fake. What happens in WandaVision CAN'T be just a dream. You can't GIVE BIRTH and RAISE two kids up to adolescence only to be woken up after a half-hour's nap and be told it was just a dream. Especially when those two boys come back to the "real world" with you. Impossible! Plus, hasn't it already been stated on numerous occasions that the X-Men wont be coming into the MCU for a while? What's the rush? They're coming and that should be all that matters to mutant fans!

[Albert1981]

To be fair Gamora is 100% better in the comics, they depowered the hell out of her to the point she seems weak than Black Widow, Black Widow in the MCU has More H2H showing and battles against Proxima, Winter Soldier and Clint, meanwhile Gamora is supposed to be the deadliest Woman on the universe but they never showed something of that, she doesn't have her super strenght, healing or durability at least they could make her a Hand To Hand máster like she is in the comics.

Another Marvel woman that suffered the same in the MCU is Mantis, who is a master in hand to hand and has several other powers than just Empathy.

As I said, I think for the film/television mediums, it's okay to depower some of the superheroes. Conversely, I'm okay with making the supervillains STRONGER at the same time. I want to see our heroes have a hard time and struggle, and get stronger as each movie and show passes by. Then when they win, it's much more rewarding. I do understand your criticisms of Gamora and Mantis though. I hear Drax's portrayal was heavily criticized as well. But we can't really argue with the MCU's way of doing things. The Guardians of the Galaxy did WAY better than anybody at Disney could have ever dreamed of. And I think that's largely because of the team's quirky dynamics and easygoing personalities. I know Steve Englehart LIKED Mantis in the Guardian movies, but he disagreed with their portrayal of her.

[Albert1981]

Exactly, that's why Wanda feels so unique. Especially since similar characters like Sue Storm or Jean Grey aren't in the MCU so Wanda comes across as even more unique powerset wise then.

They did try and develop Nat and Gamora in later films to mixed results. Nat got saddled with the Bruce Banner love story which fans unanimously hated which is why it was completely ignored since then. Gamora was more successful in repatching her relationship with Nebula...up until you know, her death. But a part of the reason I wasn't big into the MCU was because the only female characters were cut from the same cloth like Nat and Gamora. It wasn't until Age of Ultron with the introduction of Wanda, Pietro, and Vision that I grew a vested interest in the MCU.

Yeah, I really liked Age of Ultron too. I thought Wanda's entrance into the movie was really creepy and had the feel of a horror flick. I thought the creation of Vision was cool and comic booky. Like Frankenstein's monster being born. Pietro was used well in the picture in my estimation before he was unceremoniously killed. Him running out of breath and getting tired showed that he was NOT invincible. So give Whedon points there. I thought making Ultron into an "evil" version of Stark was pretty clever actually. That's the first time I've ever seen a villain in a superhero movie be SO funny. Whedon deserves credit there too. The Banner Romanoff thing was just awkward. Every time they got together, the movie just stalled. The Thor shirtless thing in the pool and going to Clint's house also bogged down the film too. I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that Betty Ross (Liv Tyler) will be returning to the MCU by appearing in She-Hulk. If Banner and her re-united, it could be a nice conclusion to his character arc. And it would be true to the comic books. I don't want to see him fighting and probably losing to Wolverine. Feige does listen to MCU fans. I think he knows they are upset that Hulk's transformation to Professor Hulk was not shown in the movies. He might very well "fix" that in She-Hulk. Same thing with Pietro. I'm sure he's aware people were disappointed about how he died, so I think WandaVision's a good place to "redeem" him. I think the family dynamic will be REALLY important in WandaVision too. That's why I think we might see not only Pietro show up, but Wanda's parents too in that first dinner scene in episode one. Why wouldn't she want to bring back her folks too? And by doing that, we can finally lay to rest the debate on who her father is in the MCU. I also think that no matter how weird and messed up WandaVision gets, the main theme will be this: Wanda and Vision will do whatever it takes to protect their family.

[Sutekh]

Same thing with Pietro. I'm sure he's aware people were disappointed about how he died, so I think WandaVision's a good place to "redeem" him.

Gosh, I hope so. When he died after the fakeout with Hawkeye, I was super-bummed, and I wonder if Evan Peter's popular portrayal of Quicksilver in the X-movies was something to do with him not surviving in the MCU. Now that the Fox X-movies are done, and Evan Peters might even be coming over to the MCU in a completely different role, it would be great if they could bring back the ATJ version of Pietro.

(Also didn't help that I'm not a fan of Hawkeye, and it seems like a running gag to fakeout killing him, and then killing someone else, like Pietro or Natasha, which super annoys me.)

[Albert1981]

Gosh, I hope so. When he died after the fakeout with Hawkeye, I was super-bummed, and I wonder if Evan Peter's popular portrayal of Quicksilver in the X-movies was something to do with him not surviving in the MCU. Now that the Fox X-movies are done, and Evan Peters might even be coming over to the MCU in a completely different role, it would be great if they could bring back the ATJ version of Pietro.

(Also didn't help that I'm not a fan of Hawkeye, and it seems like a running gag to fakeout killing him, and then killing someone else, like Pietro or Natasha, which super annoys me.)

In this instance, I wish the MCU could have stayed a little more true to the comic book Hawkeye. I think fans would like that version of the character more. But then they did the whole "family man" thing, and it is what it is. I think the whole Disney+ stuff is meant to fix mistakes made in previous movies and flesh out more secondary characters (at least in Phase 4 and 5). That's why the Hulk, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Loki, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Darcy Lewis, Jimmy Woo, Sharon Carter and Baron Zemo are going to be part of them. Natasha's even getting her own film now too! So I appreciate what Feige's trying to do here. I absolutely believe that Fox's version of Quicksilver had a LOT to do with the MCU killing its version off. I read that Whedon on a radio show stated how excited he was about introducing "his favorite twins" into the MCU and then EXACTLY a week later Kinberg and Singer announced that they were using Quicksilver too (just to fuck with Disney). And their version was definitely more popular. I actually think the MCU version could have been an even BIGGER dick than he was, but I thought ATJ portrayed him just fine. I get the sense that Banner will be playing sort of a "buddy" and "partner" to Walters in She-Hulk. Why would Ruffalo publicly announce he was going to be involved in a project if he was just gonna be cameoing in it? With ATJ, things seem to be pretty hush-hush. So my feeling there is that his role in WandaVision will be smaller compared to Banner's in She-Hulk, but not insignificant. I don't see Vision and Quicksilver surviving the series though. But by the way Bettany keeps gushing about the show, it seems to indicate Vision's role will be quite MAJOR and IMPORTANT. And Bettany does not usually do "gush". As I said before, it's clear that Feige and Whedon thought Pietro was expendable. They just really wanted Wanda and Vision all along. And their decision paid off. WandaVision might be one of the most unique products Marvel Studios has ever created from the looks of things. But if the series wants to emphasize a "family vibe", they NEED Pietro back. And they probably could use Wanda's and Pietro's parents too.

[whitecrown]

To be fair Gamora is 100% better in the comics, they depowered the hell out of her to the point she seems weak than Black Widow, Black Widow in the MCU has More H2H showing and battles against Proxima, Winter Soldier and Clint, meanwhile Gamora is supposed to be the deadliest Woman on the universe but they never showed something of that, she doesn't have her super strenght, healing or durability at least they could make her a Hand To Hand máster like she is in the comics.

Another Marvel woman that suffered the same in the MCU is Mantis, who is a master in hand to hand and has several other powers than just Empathy.

I always heard Gamora is the deadliest woman in the galaxy in the comics but my only experience with her was from the MCU so I definitely didn't feel that way towards her. And yeah, I didn't like the MCU Mantis at all. They gave her the most passive powerset there is and a personality to match even though the original Mantis was named that because all men were prey for her due to her superior skills.

[whitecrown]

Gosh, I hope so. When he died after the fakeout with Hawkeye, I was super-bummed, and I wonder if Evan Peter's popular portrayal of Quicksilver in the X-movies was something to do with him not surviving in the MCU. Now that the Fox X-movies are done, and Evan Peters might even be coming over to the MCU in a completely different role, it would be great if they could bring back the ATJ version of Pietro.

(Also didn't help that I'm not a fan of Hawkeye, and it seems like a running gag to fakeout killing him, and then killing someone else, like Pietro or Natasha, which super annoys me.)

They constantly kill off the superior character over Hawkeye.

[whitecrown]

Glad you agree! Thanks. I never thought Wanda was weak. But let's face it, she got flat out defeated by Thanos and the Black Order in Infinity War. And that didn't dent her popularity AT ALL. So Wanda doesn't need to be kicking butt to be cool. Wanda's moment in Endgame was a big one for her but that was directly as a result of her failing in Infinity War. Wanda has been pretty emotional throughout her time in the MCU. But not in an over-the-top and melodramatic way. No self-pitying, but she's not afraid of showing she's scared and confused sometimes. I think other MCU female characters' popularity are being hurt by NOT being allowed to show any emotions. I read that Evangeline Lilly wanted to CRANK up the romantic element in the Ant-Man movies because she felt that viewers were not connecting with whole "ambitious and driven" women thing. Alas, I think it's too little too late on that front. I think Nebula is certainly an interesting and sympathetic character, but when she said that there was an idiot in the landing zone (she was talking about Scott Lang), I just felt that was a bit mean-spirited. I think Marvel Studios are confusing "fierce" with "strong" and "angry" with "tough" when it comes to their women characters. But for "civilian" girlfriends, I don't think they did much better. MJ very publicly declared Peter Parker to be a loser, made fun of Ned Leeds and Parker going to Liz Toomes' party and gave Peter the middle finger at that homecoming dance. Being spiteful is not a "winning" personality in my opinion. And Jane Foster fangirling all over Thor's muscles in the earlier Thor movies was just so lame too. She's one of the world's leading astrophysicists, but when she first met with the Norse God she acts like a lovesick groupie. Fucking pathetic. But I want to give Marvel Studios SOME credit. I think they realized their earlier mistakes, and I've kind of grown to like Black Widow more recently. I thought she was pretty great in Endgame actually. I want to see her in her new solo movie because Jac Schaeffer helped write it. That film could show how Schaeffer will approach the main characters in WandaVision.

They seem to think awesome displays of power and fighting skills ALONE will give these ladies personalities. I could not disagree more. At least the Wasp was quippy and a warrior in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPub9V0py2s

She only got defeated by Thanos because he essentially cheated otherwise she had him beat. And when people were talking about her being weak, I was under the impression they meant with her personality and emotionally, not how powerful she is with her abilities so I probably misconstrued that. And even in Infinity War, she didn't fail. She was the only one able to hold off Thanos WHILE destroying an infinity stone in Vision. That's really interesting if Evangeline Lilly did say that because her Wasp did feel kinda generic and not interesting enough. I don't really care much for her relationship with Scott though to believe in that fully either though. I don't remember much about the girls in the Spider-Man films but I agree with you about Jane Foster, she was a joke and no wonder Natalie Portman originally said she was done with the MCU for good. She probably only came back once she learned they planned to make her the star of the film and a superhero in her own right. Natasha has grown on me as a character even though I originally didn't like her in the comics or MCU.

[whitecrown]

Yeah, I really liked Age of Ultron too. I thought Wanda's entrance into the movie was really creepy and had the feel of a horror flick. I thought the creation of Vision was cool and comic booky. Like Frankenstein's monster being born. Pietro was used well in the picture in my estimation before he was unceremoniously killed. Him running out of breath and getting tired showed that he was NOT invincible. So give Whedon points there. I thought making Ultron into an "evil" version of Stark was pretty clever actually. That's the first time I've ever seen a villain in a superhero movie be SO funny. Whedon deserves credit there too. The Banner Romanoff thing was just awkward. Every time they got together, the movie just stalled. The Thor shirtless thing in the pool and going to Clint's house also bogged down the film too. I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that Betty Ross (Liv Tyler) will be returning to the MCU by appearing in She-Hulk. If Banner and her re-united, it could be a nice conclusion to his character arc. And it would be true to the comic books. I don't want to see him fighting and probably losing to Wolverine. Feige does listen to MCU fans. I think he knows they are upset that Hulk's transformation to Professor Hulk was not shown in the movies. He might very well "fix" that in She-Hulk. Same thing with Pietro. I'm sure he's aware people were disappointed about how he died, so I think WandaVision's a good place to "redeem" him. I think the family dynamic will be REALLY important in WandaVision too. That's why I think we might see not only Pietro show up, but Wanda's parents too in that first dinner scene in episode one. Why wouldn't she want to bring back her folks too? And by doing that, we can finally lay to rest the debate on who her father is in the MCU. I also think that no matter how weird and messed up WandaVision gets, the main theme will be this: Wanda and Vision will do whatever it takes to protect their family.

I really like the new origin for Vision in the MCU especially since I didn't think it would work as well without Hank Pym. I also liked the take on Ultron even if I know he was disliked heavily by comic book fans. Bruce and Nat didn't bother me too much as a couple but I'd much rather have that time devoted to something else since I wasn't rooting for them either. I've never been a Hulk fan so Betty doesn't interest me much but that could change if they do something convincing with her for once. The lack of Professor Hulk or a full-fledged Hulk film weren't things I had issues with either. I wonder who they will cast as Wanda's parents though for the MCU. I'd laugh if they bring in Michael Fassbender.

[Albert1981]

She only got defeated by Thanos because he essentially cheated otherwise she had him beat. And when people were talking about her being weak, I was under the impression they meant with her personality and emotionally, not how powerful she is with her abilities so I probably misconstrued that. And even in Infinity War, she didn't fail. She was the only one able to hold off Thanos WHILE destroying an infinity stone in Vision. That's really interesting if Evangeline Lilly did say that because her Wasp did feel kinda generic and not interesting enough. I don't really care much for her relationship with Scott though to believe in that fully either though. I don't remember much about the girls in the Spider-Man films but I agree with you about Jane Foster, she was a joke and no wonder Natalie Portman originally said she was done with the MCU for good. She probably only came back once she learned they planned to make her the star of the film and a superhero in her own right. Natasha has grown on me as a character even though I originally didn't like her in the comics or MCU.

Thanos and his troops cheated in Endgame. That was not fair and not cool. But villains gotta do what it takes to win. I was just saying that after Thanos rewound time in Infinity War, I think Wanda should have done more than just physically "lunge" at him. She could never win in physical brawl with Thanos. So he just easily swatted her aside. I was thinking maybe she was exhausted after destroying the Mind Stone because it looked like Thanos was getting stronger again. Then it was game over. I thought the Russos should have let her use "mind control" on Thanos at that point. If she put him to sleep with dreams of conquest, half the universe would have been just fine. Wanda would have been the undisputed Queen of the MCU. I guess the Russos really hated what Whedon did with Wanda that they decided to get rid of one of her coolest powers in the Age of Ultron. Because if Thanos hadn't KO'd Wanda, we would have not gotten Endgame.