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  1. #421
    Incredible Member Jovan2013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Or join JLDark
    I would like to see her joining Justice League Dark (they are pretty much the only magical team available). She is an adaptable character due to her power-set she can fit into almost any team.

  2. #422
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Solwezi is a place in the north west of Zambia. Name sounds very southern Africa. I know it's spelt Zambezi not Zambesi but the place of inspiration is clear. My main problem is the tendency to mix and match random african mythos that don't have anything to do with each other when it comes to writing about Africa. Zambian languages share words with Swahili because they are in the bantu language family.
    I get the concern about mixing mythology but I would say it's fair game within reason. considering the way myths transmit, there are plenty that overlap across national borders, especially due to the nature of how Africa's borders were made. So when we're working with made up nations I think it's fair to pull from various cultural iconographies because there are a wide breadth of African mythology that never gets to be showcased in these kinds of stories like the Impundulu, like the Idiok, Sky King Eri, Komosu, the Epic of Mansa Sundiata, etc.; we never see any push back when they mix in European or Judeo-Christian mythology in every and anything. the issue I have is when they pull from the same small handful of myths (Anansi, Orishas, Egypt) and unless it's Egypt they are always done extremely superficially. if they focus on a region (Southern Africa, Western sub-saharan Africa, etc.) they should pull from all that region has to offer, so long as they stick to some kind of internal consistency. Black Panther the movie does a pretty good job with conhesive world building using african iconography, and Black Leopard, Red Wolf by Marlon James does a great job of it too.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 09-28-2020 at 12:29 PM.
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  3. #423
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    I think Mari would be perfect for a magical version of the Terrifics.
    What would a magical version of The Terrifics look like?

  4. #424
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    Considering Vixen was planned to have her own comic way back near her first introduction before than plans fell, I'm surprised she hasn't been pushed more.

  5. #425
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    I’ve always felt Vixen and animal man mimicking magical creatures starts to break the characters in some fundamental ways. Because you start to ask questions like “can they turn into aliens too? How about animal looking gods?” And pretty soon you’ve turned a character with a pretty unique and versatile move set into a catch all character that can do anything, and are more difficult to write. Sometimes limits are good.

  6. #426
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    I don't have an issue with mixing and matching aspects of African mythology unless it becomes lazy or isn't depicted well. The recent BP run by Coates is an example of how pulling random elements of African religions and hamfisting them together makes things needlessly complicated and shallow. How do Wakandans, a Nilotic people in East Africa, have a South African rain goddess named Mujaji within a pantheon called the Orisha, which hail from West Africa? And it's even worse in that franchise because Wakandans aren't supposed to have any connections to the rest of Africa until T'Challa opens the kingdom in the 21st century.

    It's weird and reductive because while I get the general pan-African sentiment behind representing everyone's respective folklore, you don't want to make all African cultures look interchangeable. And I think there needs to be extra sensitivity because for many people these are very real beings and concepts that can't just be haphazardly thrown together or boiled down to their most superficial elements. What I'd like to see happen more often is that folklore is used regionally. If Vixen's from Southern Africa have her draw from that lore primarily. There's plenty of depth to Zulu mythology alone that can build an entire franchise, it's a bit weird to just roll in some Nubian gods just because they're from the same continent. I mean, I'm fine with anything as long as the story is strong enough and there's an in-universe explanation but c'mon, not every African hero needs to deal with gods from the other side of the continent.

  7. #427
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I get the concern about mixing mythology but I would say it's fair game within reason. considering the way myths transmit, there are plenty that overlap across national borders, especially due to the nature of how Africa's borders were made. So when we're working with made up nations I think it's fair to pull from various cultural iconographies because there are a wide breadth of African mythology that never gets to be showcased in these kinds of stories like the Impundulu, like the Idiok, Sky King Eri, Komosu, the Epic of Mansa Sundiata, etc.; we never see any push back when they mix in European or Judeo-Christian mythology in every and anything. the issue I have is when they pull from the same small handful of myths (Anansi, Orishas, Egypt) and unless it's Egypt they are always done extremely superficially. if they focus on a region (Southern Africa, Western sub-saharan Africa, etc.) they should pull from all that region has to offer, so long as they stick to some kind of internal consistency. Black Panther the movie does a pretty good job with conhesive world building using african iconography, and Black Leopard, Red Wolf by Marlon James does a great job of it too.

    But when it comes to European mythology they stick to one source. E.g. greek, arthurian, norse etc. When it comes to Africa they do it with cultures that barely interact. That I agree with what you said about focusing on one region.
    OP characters make me itch

  8. #428
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I don't have an issue with mixing and matching aspects of African mythology unless it becomes lazy or isn't depicted well. The recent BP run by Coates is an example of how pulling random elements of African religions and hamfisting them together makes things needlessly complicated and shallow. How do Wakandans, a Nilotic people in East Africa, have a South African rain goddess named Mujaji within a pantheon called the Orisha, which hail from West Africa? And it's even worse in that franchise because Wakandans aren't supposed to have any connections to the rest of Africa until T'Challa opens the kingdom in the 21st century.

    It's weird and reductive because while I get the general pan-African sentiment behind representing everyone's respective folklore, you don't want to make all African cultures look interchangeable. And I think there needs to be extra sensitivity because for many people these are very real beings and concepts that can't just be haphazardly thrown together or boiled down to their most superficial elements. What I'd like to see happen more often is that folklore is used regionally. If Vixen's from Southern Africa have her draw from that lore primarily. There's plenty of depth to Zulu mythology alone that can build an entire franchise, it's a bit weird to just roll in some Nubian gods just because they're from the same continent. I mean, I'm fine with anything as long as the story is strong enough and there's an in-universe explanation but c'mon, not every African hero needs to deal with gods from the other side of the continent.

    I feel like it worked in Black Panther because each clan/faction represented used a seperate source for inspiration. Another place where mixing cultures worked was Avatar.
    OP characters make me itch

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    What would a magical version of The Terrifics look like?
    A team like Justice League Dark but more lighthearted like Shazam?

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    I feel like it worked in Black Panther because each clan/faction represented used a seperate source for inspiration. Another place where mixing cultures worked was Avatar.
    The Black Panther movie did many things better than the comics, its fusion of the various Wakandan tribes and real-life African cultures being one of them. I was specifically speaking on the recent Black Panther books by Ta-Nehisi Coates, which is blatantly all over the place with its terminology and mythology.

  11. #431
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The Black Panther movie did many things better than the comics, its fusion of the various Wakandan tribes and real-life African cultures being one of them. I was specifically speaking on the recent Black Panther books by Ta-Nehisi Coates, which is blatantly all over the place with its terminology and mythology.

    I see what you mean
    OP characters make me itch

  12. #432
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    On the topic of Vixen having a celebrity type villain, wouldn't Jezebel Jet be a good candidate?



    She's like a foil for Vixen. Both are African models but one grew up in a more humble household and chose to be a hero while the other lived a luxurious life and chose a life of crime
    OP characters make me itch

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    On the topic of Vixen having a celebrity type villain, wouldn't Jezebel Jet be a good candidate?



    She's like a foil for Vixen. Both are African models but one grew up in a more humble household and chose to be a hero while the other lived a luxurious life and chose a life of crime
    The world would be better off if that character never appeared again.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-13-2020 at 06:32 PM.

  14. #434
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    There are no bad characters only bad writers.

  15. #435
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There are no bad characters only bad writers.
    They are most definitely bad characters, Good characters are easy to set up and easy to go different directions bad characters need mountains of work and nearly perfect execution to work. I am using this character as example of bad character(she isn't) but she is an example of how much work it takes for a characters to made good. The example is Pyslocke and she is perfect example because it is obvious to see how different character had to be change to make the character good. In fact Psylocke shows that they just made a different character not "fix" a character. Fiction allows writers to make character into a whole different person. If you have to make a character into basically new character the character was bad.

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