Titans Appreciation 2020

[Dred]

Wally wasn't kicked off the Titans, they disbanded and Deathstroke took over the book.

Wally had already left. He hadn't appeared in several issues and then randomly showed up when Cyborg asked why he wasn't with the team and he gave the canned "oh my kids" response.

I'm not saying kicked off from an in story perspective. DC did not give a shit about giving a real in story reason for Wally suddenly being absent from everything. He was kicked out of everything by editorial, intentionally, and maliciously. Didio straight up told people if they wanted to read about The Flash then buy Barry's book because there would be nothing featuring Wally.

[Restingvoice]

"When the drug wore off and Roy came back to his senses, he fought Deathstroke out and vowed to redeem himself in Lian's honor by redeeming the Titans name that Slade diminished, deeming it something worth fighting for, as well as making amends with everyone he loved.

He decided to start and lead a new Titans team that would redeem the name, and he was joining the recently resurrected Jericho (Joey Wilson), his friend and fellow Titan.

During the Convergence storyline, Roy is living in Gotham, where he started a children's home and shelter, Lian's Place.

The villain Dreamslayer offered Roy a deal: that he would return Lian if Roy betrayed his friends Donna Troy and Starfire. Roy outsmarted him and managed to get Lian back without harming anyone, revealing that he had weaponized Gotham in case something like this ever happened. With that, Lian was back to life and Roy was reunited with his daughter once more."

It sounds like he's in an okay place. He found a new purpose, both when Lian's back and when not. In RHATO he started up imprisoned in Qurac for aiding a rebellion, but he won't do that if he has Lian and a children shelter.

Would Titans aid a rebellion against a dictator? Is that within their... no... DC heroes usually don't meddle in other country's politics unless there's a supervillain threat, right? A lone vigilante, yes, but not a well-known team like Titans.

[Dred]

He's dead now and there's no Lian. Convergence isn't canon.

[Artemisfanboy]

He's dead now and there's no Lian. Convergence isn't canon.

That's not very fun is it?
Ideally a lot of us would want Roy to be brought back and Lian reintroduced.

When the drug wore off and Roy came back to his senses, he fought Deathstroke out and vowed to redeem himself in Lian's honor by redeeming the Titans name that Slade diminished, deeming it something worth fighting for, as well as making amends with everyone he loved.

He decided to start and lead a new Titans team that would redeem the name, and he was joining the recently resurrected Jericho (Joey Wilson), his friend and fellow Titan.

During the Convergence storyline, Roy is living in Gotham, where he started a children's home and shelter, Lian's Place.

The villain Dreamslayer offered Roy a deal: that he would return Lian if Roy betrayed his friends Donna Troy and Starfire. Roy outsmarted him and managed to get Lian back without harming anyone, revealing that he had weaponized Gotham in case something like this ever happened. With that, Lian was back to life and Roy was reunited with his daughter once more."

It sounds like he's in an okay place. He found a new purpose, both when Lian's back and when not. In RHATO he started up imprisoned in Qurac for aiding a rebellion, but he won't do that if he has Lian and a children shelter.

Would Titans aid a rebellion against a dictator? Is that within their... no... DC heroes usually don't meddle in other country's politics unless there's a supervillain threat, right? A lone vigilante, yes, but not a well-known team like Titans.

If we want to arc weld from the Pre flashpoint or convergence status quo, we need to explain how Roy got his arm back and where Lian has been since the reboot. And possibly whether we want to keep Cry For Justice/Rise of Arsenal/ Deathstrokes Titans and to what extent.

For Lian, I'd say she'd be in the custody of Mia Dearden, who has also been missing, since whenever Roy would have lost custody of Lian and ended up in Quarac. Mia would have retired from the superhero gig entirely to dedicate her full time to raising and caring for Lian and keeping her out of danger. Maybe Mia comes back because her condition is beginning to worsen and to see if either Ollie or Roy can take over being responsible for Lian.

For Roy and his arm we can take two possible paths. One would simply being they found someway to clone or regrow his arm.
The second could be a take similar to how they retconned Doc Magnus becoming Metal Man Viridium and Gold dying. Basically all that occured inside his head and he was hallucinating it. Much like the Viridium stuff it contradicts occasions where the Metal Men interacted with characters during crossovers with that formation. The second is a bit wonky, but then again most people would prefer that stuff didn't happen at all, which is another option.

If we don't want to arc weld and just bring Roy back to life and introduce Lian at the same time, I have a rough idea. It's revealed Roy and Cheshire had an affair and Cheshire had Lian without Roy knowing and has been raising her. Lian gets kidnapped so Cheshire, desperate steals Roy's body, throws it in a Lazarus pit and they team up to rescue Lian who Roy learns about from Cheshire. At the end of the story Cheshire decides Lian is better off with Roy.

[Drako]

Donna was in today's issue of wonder woman and she still has that stupid "Made to kill the amazons" origin, even though it makes no sense since it's canon that she was with the Titans as a teenager.

[Artemisfanboy]

Donna was in today's issue of wonder woman and she still has that stupid "Made to kill the amazons" origin, even though it makes no sense since it's canon that she was with the Titans as a teenager.

It's not the same as the Finch origin at all, however.

Here we see a young Donna having part of her origin explained to her by Diana on Themyscira.
Two issues ago Diana had a flashback to training a young Donna on Themyscira. Diana had this flashback, so it's not false or implanted memories.
We don't know Who "created" Donna or How or even what "created' may mean.
So, while it seems like somebody "created" Donna with the intent of her destroying the Amazons, it would also seem like Diana and the Amazons rescued her at an early age and raised her.

[Frontier]

It's not the same as the Finch origin at all, however.

Here we see a young Donna having part of her origin explained to her by Diana on Themyscira.
Two issues ago Diana had a flashback to training a young Donna on Themyscira. Diana had this flashback, so it's not false or implanted memories.
We don't know Who "created" Donna or How or even what "created' may mean.
So, while it seems like somebody "created" Donna with the intent of her destroying the Amazons, it would also seem like Diana and the Amazons rescued her at an early age and raised her.

So at least right now it's better then nothing...

[Restingvoice]

Donna was in today's issue of wonder woman and she still has that stupid "Made to kill the amazons" origin, even though it makes no sense since it's canon that she was with the Titans as a teenager.

On top of what Artemisfanboy said, the fact that she's created to kill, but then rescued to be raised right, have been said in Rebirth Titans Annual #1

[Dred]

It's just interminably annoying because literally every single Donna centric story since she's came back has been entirely about her being an evil bad guy who does bad things. And her hating herself over it. Even the page everyone's referencing is Donna reminiscing about being told she's an evil weapon and her entire life is a lie and how she's just not over it and can't get back to normalcy. It's dumb and bad and will always be dumb and bad. It's another pointless retcon whose only purpose is to make her angsty because it fucking certainly hasn't been used as something she can overcome. Because they are dead fucking set on her never overcoming it by regurgitating it over and over again.

[Frontier]

It really just boggles the mind how DC keeps screwing Donna up. Like, I'm playing armchair writer and everything, but it really shouldn't seem that difficult to course-correct from this stuff or just foresee the issues.

[Artemisfanboy]

It's just interminably annoying because literally every single Donna centric story since she's came back has been entirely about her being an evil bad guy who does bad things. And her hating herself over it. Even the page everyone's referencing is Donna reminiscing about being told she's an evil weapon and her entire life is a lie and how she's just not over it and can't get back to normalcy. It's dumb and bad and will always be dumb and bad. It's another pointless retcon whose only purpose is to make her angsty because it fucking certainly hasn't been used as something she can overcome. Because they are dead fucking set on her never overcoming it by regurgitating it over and over again.

I'm looking at the story Orlando seems to be going for here, and I think he's working past that, to bring Donna to a better place and clean up the current mess, unlike Titans which just dropped the ball and left an even bigger mess behind.
Diana has admitted that's she's failed Donna recently and hasn't been there for her. Diana is trying to reach out to her. She's calling Donna her sister and showing legitimate concern for Donna. Diana's talk with Donna in this flashback doesn't feel like "you're an evil weapon by nature" to me, it's more "you know that fire I rescued you from? Yeah, it's was actually ???, we thought it would be better to wait till you were older to know the full story". And I'm curious to see what the full story will look like and I'm willing to reserve judgement.
Yes, Donna currently feels bad, but she's just come off being brainwashed by BWL. As for where Donna was prior to that, Diana is taking responsibility for not being there and possibly leaving her vulnerable. So Diana admits the ways the way she's been towards Donna recently is part of the problem, and is seeking to change that. I currently have a enough faith in Orlando that by the end of this Donna will have reconciled with Diana and helped her save Themyscira and they'll be closer than they've been in a long time.

[Restingvoice]

It really just boggles the mind how DC keeps screwing Donna up. Like, I'm playing armchair writer and everything, but it really shouldn't seem that difficult to course-correct from this stuff or just foresee the issues.

They just don't care. Just like every other Titans character. She went missing from DCU for a while and they just run with it. When she came back, they don't demand accuracy and just let a writer who doesn't know and refused to know anything about her to write it. They don't want to make the effort and just rely on the writers to do anything for them, and if the writers are not interested to touch it, then they won't do anything about it.

[Frontier]

They just don't care. Just like every other Titans character. She went missing from DCU for a while and they just run with it. When she came back, they don't demand accuracy and just let a writer who doesn't know and refused to know anything about her to write it. They don't want to make the effort and just rely on the writers to do anything for them, and if the writers are not interested to touch it, then they won't do anything about it.

Yeah, this is probably true, although I'm not really happy with DC's antipathy towards the Titans franchise.

[king81992]

It really just boggles the mind how DC keeps screwing Donna up. Like, I'm playing armchair writer and everything, but it really shouldn't seem that difficult to course-correct from this stuff or just foresee the issues.

Donna is the easiest character to fix, make her WW younger sister by adoption and go from there. Unfortunately, DC has a fetish for things being unnecessarily convoluted.

[Lee Stone]

I re-watched the first episode of (the original) Dallas last night, and I was struck by how similar Lucy was to Terra.
She seems like a slightly less psychotic version of her.