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  1. #286
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I'd take Terra getting a push as an antihero over Harley's current push.
    Terra would be a perfect character to join something like Jason Todd's Outlaws in a redemptive role. She should be written as a tragic figure instead of explicitly being called an outright psychopath and ultimately being victim shamed because Deathstroke sexually assaulted her and the writer didn't have the knowledge to actually portray that properly. Honestly, Terra is just a victim of bad writing overall that has plagued her in the comics since her inception; the very idea of introducing a character and writing them so convincingly as at least trying to be heroic and then throwing and out of nowhere 180 heel turn without even so much as hinting at it is just... Bad writing. Terra's character is probably about where you can see the quality in NTT starting to go downhill, from a behind the scenes perspective, and she's also the perfect example of a character that has been written and done much better in outside media than the majority of the comics themselves.

    The most iconic version of Terra is the one from the Teen Titans cartoon, even with the comics version taken into account. There she's played as a victim that is being used by Slade to infiltrate the Teen Titans because he has power over her, and then that's a trope that's for the most part repeated in the Judas Contract version. He finds her as a young girl and grooms her to infiltrate the Teen Titans, which she does and she does well because he has made her believe that he is in love with her and that he's the only one that can and ever will love her. It, of course, backfires and she sacrifices herself to save the Teen Titans when she realizes that she made the wrong decision. I think that's probably the best way to take the character's backstory. A part of her and Geo-Force's powers is supposed to be that the Earth resurrects them naturally when they've died, so have her be alive that way - like she is in current continuity, my feelings about how Priest betrayed her aside - and have her going around working as a mercenary or something and trying to live with what she was forced to do and what happened to her.

    Have her run into and join a team like the Outlaws, the Outsiders, or even have her end up as a genuinely repentant member of the Suicide Squad, and then maybe have it lead to her returning to active duty on the Titans or another team on a consistent and permanent basis. Don't have her lose that edge that she has, but she shouldn't be a complete and total, all out psychopathic villain. Especially not when most writers struggle to write Slade (who - let's review - has manipulated and drugged MULTIPLE girls including his own daughter after manipulating Terra ) as worse.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Terra would be a perfect character to join something like Jason Todd's Outlaws in a redemptive role. She should be written as a tragic figure instead of explicitly being called an outright psychopath and ultimately being victim shamed because Deathstroke sexually assaulted her and the writer didn't have the knowledge to actually portray that properly. Honestly, Terra is just a victim of bad writing overall that has plagued her in the comics since her inception; the very idea of introducing a character and writing them so convincingly as at least trying to be heroic and then throwing and out of nowhere 180 heel turn without even so much as hinting at it is just... Bad writing. Terra's character is probably about where you can see the quality in NTT starting to go downhill, from a behind the scenes perspective, and she's also the perfect example of a character that has been written and done much better in outside media than the majority of the comics themselves.

    The most iconic version of Terra is the one from the Teen Titans cartoon, even with the comics version taken into account. There she's played as a victim that is being used by Slade to infiltrate the Teen Titans because he has power over her, and then that's a trope that's for the most part repeated in the Judas Contract version. He finds her as a young girl and grooms her to infiltrate the Teen Titans, which she does and she does well because he has made her believe that he is in love with her and that he's the only one that can and ever will love her. It, of course, backfires and she sacrifices herself to save the Teen Titans when she realizes that she made the wrong decision. I think that's probably the best way to take the character's backstory. A part of her and Geo-Force's powers is supposed to be that the Earth resurrects them naturally when they've died, so have her be alive that way - like she is in current continuity, my feelings about how Priest betrayed her aside - and have her going around working as a mercenary or something and trying to live with what she was forced to do and what happened to her.

    Have her run into and join a team like the Outlaws, the Outsiders, or even have her end up as a genuinely repentant member of the Suicide Squad, and then maybe have it lead to her returning to active duty on the Titans or another team on a consistent and permanent basis. Don't have her lose that edge that she has, but she shouldn't be a complete and total, all out psychopathic villain. Especially not when most writers struggle to write Slade (who - let's review - has manipulated and drugged MULTIPLE girls including his own daughter after manipulating Terra ) as worse.
    I agree with everything you said. It always left a bad taste in my mouth that writers tried their hand at redeeming( actually justifying) Slade's BS. How many teenage girls are going to be manipulated by this man until DC realizes there's nothing noble about him?

    Priest is probably one of the few writers who refused to pretend that Slade is misunderstood.

    I feel like sooner or later, a writer will take a chance and try their hand at a redemption arc for Terra though

  3. #288
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    5 Heroes That Should Join Titans In Season 3 (& 5 Who Should Stay Away)
    https://www.cbr.com/titans-season-3-potential-heroes/
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  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    5 Heroes That Should Join Titans In Season 3 (& 5 Who Should Stay Away)
    https://www.cbr.com/titans-season-3-potential-heroes/
    The Titans TV roster has so many characters (and one could argue that all of them have been misused) that they shouldn't be adding anyone new unless the cast gets reduced or the writers commit to actually developing the current roster.

    At this point, I won't be shocked if Terra shows up in Black Lightning instead of Titans.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    5 Heroes That Should Join Titans In Season 3 (& 5 Who Should Stay Away)
    https://www.cbr.com/titans-season-3-potential-heroes/
    Who in the world suggests Bart showing up in this angst tornado. Especially before you even touch on either Wally or Barry, both of who are really important to Bart's status. It'd be like starting off Titans with Damian Wayne.

    And seriously, Joker's Daughter? Seriously?
    Last edited by Dred; 04-11-2020 at 01:56 PM.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Who in the world suggests Bart showing up in this angst tornado. Especially before you even touch on either Wally or Barry, both of who are really important to Bart's status. It'd be like starting off Titans with Damian Wayne.

    And seriously, Joker's Daughter? Seriously?
    Joker's Daughter would suit the edgy nature of the show, but she's one of those characters I'd prefer never to see again in any media.

  7. #292
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    JD has the same problem as Impulse. Just as he makes no sense without Flash, JD doesn't make sense unless Joker is previously established. They are barking up the wrong tree with those two.
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  8. #293
    Fantastic Member Kaled's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Harpsikord
    Honestly, Terra is just a victim of bad writing overall that has plagued her in the comics since her inception; the very idea of introducing a character and writing them so convincingly as at least trying to be heroic and then throwing and out of nowhere 180 heel turn without even so much as hinting at it is just... Bad writing
    .
    No it was not bad writing. Terra was created to be a villain from the start not a hero. In the 80s the 2 biggest selling comics were the New Teen Titans and the Uncanny X-Men so it was no surprise Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont would sometimes steal ideas from each other. X-Men had just introduced Kitty Pryde so Wolfman and Perez introduced Terra. Terra was to be the exact opposite of Kitty. There was not to be any redeeming qualities about her. Look up any interview with Wolfman and Perez about creating Terra and they admit this. Wolfman only brought her back for Team Titans because the editors at the time wanted her back. DC saw her later potential after the cartoon series and so she was killed a second time in World War III (as part of the 52 weekly series) and had Terra III created. After New 52 and Rebirth Terra had a new start without being a villain.

  9. #294
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Joker's Daughter would suit the edgy nature of the show, but she's one of those characters I'd prefer never to see again in any media.
    I can see the appeal if they handled Joker's Daughter more like the original and less like the New 52...although they probably wouldn't.

  10. #295
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaled View Post
    Originally Posted by Harpsikord .
    No it was not bad writing. Terra was created to be a villain from the start not a hero. In the 80s the 2 biggest selling comics were the New Teen Titans and the Uncanny X-Men so it was no surprise Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont would sometimes steal ideas from each other. X-Men had just introduced Kitty Pryde so Wolfman and Perez introduced Terra. Terra was to be the exact opposite of Kitty. There was not to be any redeeming qualities about her. Look up any interview with Wolfman and Perez about creating Terra and they admit this. Wolfman only brought her back for Team Titans because the editors at the time wanted her back. DC saw her later potential after the cartoon series and so she was killed a second time in World War III (as part of the 52 weekly series) and had Terra III created. After New 52 and Rebirth Terra had a new start without being a villain.
    You stopped reading at that line, didn't you? Because I specified exactly what was bad writing about it. It was the fact that right up until Terra was revealed to be a villain, there were no hints to the fact. It came out of nowhere. There was no lead up to it. Up until that moment Terra's arc was that she was trying to prove herself to Dick and the other Titans that she deserved to be there and could be a hero, and then all of a sudden it wasn't that she was trying to prove that it was just that she was trying to get them to trust her so that she could betray them. And as iconic a story as the Judas Contract is any and all lasting effects that it might've had is ruined by the fact that Terra was then treated as the sole villain of the story (Deathstroke literally somehow convinced Beast Boy that she was worse than he was, and that he had nothing to do with anything) makes it even worse. It's a crapshoot.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  11. #296
    Fantastic Member Kaled's Avatar
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    No I read the whole thing. What you did not get is that was the whole point. It was a complete shock that she was a revealed as a villain and her betrayal was all that more shocking. Deathstroke was right she was full of hate when he found her and he just directed it towards the Titans as part of his revenge for his belief the Titans killed his son.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaled View Post
    No I read the whole thing. What you did not get is that was the whole point. It was a complete shock that she was a revealed as a villain and her betrayal was all that more shocking. Deathstroke was right she was full of hate when he found her and he just directed it towards the Titans as part of his revenge for his belief the Titans killed his son.
    Sure. But handwaving a teenage character's sociopathy for the shock value and contrast to another character in another franchise is not everyone's idea of good writing. A writer can have clear reasons for their storytelling choices, and readers can still think those choices were wrong.
    Last edited by uberfrosch; 04-12-2020 at 08:28 PM.

  13. #298
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Who in the world suggests Bart showing up in this angst tornado. Especially before you even touch on either Wally or Barry, both of who are really important to Bart's status. It'd be like starting off Titans with Damian Wayne.

    And seriously, Joker's Daughter? Seriously?
    Wally and Barry are held by the other show company though and I don't know what's their policy of making different versions of the characters.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Wally and Barry are held by the other show company though and I don't know what's their policy of making different versions of the characters.
    Pretty non-nonchalant considering they've used Slade. And if the argument is that Slade is too important to the Teen Titans history not to include...well, Wally has that in spades.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    JD has the same problem as Impulse. Just as he makes no sense without Flash, JD doesn't make sense unless Joker is previously established. They are barking up the wrong tree with those two.
    If I remember right, SMALLVILLE had BART ALLEN and JAY GARRICK, without Wally and Barry right?

    But what I dont like about the list:

    Bombshell shouldnt join, because of her being evil/hero, but Terra should join???
    I would rather see Bombshell joining instead of Terra...because I think it will only repeat the Terra story of the Comics and Anime Film..
    Last edited by Masterff; 04-13-2020 at 08:49 AM.

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