Titans Appreciation 2020

[Godlike13]

Ok so how does Dick already being close with his friends in the original Teen Titans matter as why her and Vic became close then if she isn’t talking about when her and Vic were Titans living in the Tower?

[Dred]

How does Dick already being close with his friends in the original Teen Titans matter as why her and Vic became close then if she isn’t talking about when her and Vic were Titans living in the Tower?

She is talking about how Dick was ALREADY FRIENDS with the listed people before her and Vic were friends. She is acknowledging Dick's long list of friends whereas Cyborg and Starfire didn't have many people beside each other (and, likely, the other NTT members) when the NTT started. She is talking about how Dick already had many friends and many different places he could call home if he needed to because of those friends, where she and Cyborg ONLY had the tower.

I legitimately don't even know how you're reading the scene any other way. Like, what in this context is making you think she's somehow implying Roy is part of the NTT when they only part she mentions Roy is talking about how in the early days of the Teen Titans Roy was Dick's friend? Which is perfectly in line with the idea of an original Teen Titans and a later iteration that wouldn't be the early days.

[lgcruz]

I guess it's lack of prounons that is throwing me off. "early days of being teen tittans" should be "early days when we were the teen titans" or "early days of me being in the teen titans" if she was making a reference to the ntt. Maybe they were omitted for spacing, like frontier said.

[Dred]

But that's explicitly the opposite of what she is saying. If she said "of me being in the Teen Titans" it would be an entirely different statement that would include her. She is saying that Dick has previous history of the Teen Titans and making friends before her and Cyborg. No extra pronouns are needed. The entire point of the statement is Starfire stating "Hey Dick you already had a bunch of friends from the original Fab Five team and all of you, as sidekicks/proteges, had homes to go to outside of the Teen Titans tower. Whereas Cyborg and I were in the tower all the time as we had no other home. This caused us too become close!"

[SanityOrMadness]

Pretending like continuity is an argument at all is preposterous because Cyborg and Wally were friends as recently as Flash War and they only knew each other from NTT times.

Cyborg shouldn't even have remembered Wally except as a guy he'd been told about and/or met for the first time in the recent past. Only the Rebirth Titans, Barry, Iris, maybe Superman (but probably not post-Reborn) and (as of the Flash War Annual) Magenta remembered him from Wally's Titans days at that point. [And Superman & Iris remembered pre-FP Wally, not N52 Abra Kadabra'd Wally]

Meanwhile, Wally remembered Cyborg from pre-Flashpoint continuity.

Cyborg was never a Titan during Rebirth, she’s clearly talking about NTT, and Dick is just finishing her point.

I mean really think about what Starfire is saying here. So Dick and Roy were already close, how does that matter as to why her and Vic became close. It doesn’t follow. He wasn’t around when they shared a Tower. So what if Dick was close to someone that wasn’t even around when they came into the Titans. She is saying when I was a Titan you original Titan already had a bond, so use newbies bonded.

Exactly.

[Godlike13]

She is talking about how Dick was ALREADY FRIENDS with the listed people before her and Vic were friends. She is acknowledging Dick's long list of friends whereas Cyborg and Starfire didn't have many people beside each other (and, likely, the other NTT members) when the NTT started. She is talking about how Dick already had many friends and many different places he could call home if he needed to because of those friends, where she and Cyborg ONLY had the tower.

I legitimately don't even know how you're reading the scene any other way. Like, what in this context is making you think she's somehow implying Roy is part of the NTT when they only part she mentions Roy is talking about how in the early days of the Teen Titans Roy was Dick's friend? Which is perfectly in line with the idea of an original Teen Titans and a later iteration that wouldn't be the early days.

She isn’t acknowledging Dick's long list of friends, she talking about her early days of being a Teen Titan to remind Dick why her and Vic were close. Explaining to him how Dick, Donna, Wally, and Roy were already friends, and how he had other homes (Batman). While Her and Vic didn’t know anyone before hand and lived in the Tower together as their only home. The error here is that Roy wasn’t around during her early days of being a Teen Titan, not that she left Garth out.

[lgcruz]

Yeah they should have gone with "early days of the teen titans" if the intent was to make clear she was talking about the fab 5, so while what they printed doesn't imply the ntt, it ends up just being confusing. Though the dumb thing is that she isnt saying that they were close since they were living in the same place, she is saying that what really got them close was the experience in the ghost sector and that what happened before is irrelevant by comparison.

I guess this is just a bad script.

[Dred]

She was talking about the Fab Five because she freaking listed them.

You guys are making absolutely no sense and are just plain not comprehending the words on the page. I can't explain it any clearer and you seem dedicated to misinterpreting it. You are assuming she is including herself with the rest of the list of people when she never does. At no point! And I don't know why you are trying to force that perspective in there.

Like seriously. How could he already be friends with Donna, Roy, and Wally when they met if the Fab Five didn't precede Starfire and Cyborg on the Teen Titans? Why IN THE WORLD do you think she's saying Roy was part of the NTT and Dick became friends with him, Donna, and Roy instead of Starfire and Cyborg? Her statement is that Dick's friendship with the Fab Five was already established by the time her early days in the Teen Titans started.

Key word here already. As in it was something that had happened in the past before her and Cyborg became friends. Please, please understand the reading comprehension here instead of trying to force this weird New 52 status quo into it.

I can't do this anymore. I am beating my head against a wall and I don't even know why I'm trying so hard to explain a basic conversation.

[Dred]

Cyborg shouldn't even have remembered Wally except as a guy he'd been told about and/or met for the first time in the recent past. Only the Rebirth Titans, Barry, Iris, maybe Superman (but probably not post-Reborn) and (as of the Flash War Annual) Magenta remembered him from Wally's Titans days at that point. [And Superman & Iris remembered pre-FP Wally, not N52 Abra Kadabra'd Wally]

Meanwhile, Wally remembered Cyborg from pre-Flashpoint continuity.


Exactly.

I do not know why you think there's some consistent continuity in DC Comics right now. You have to be absolutely out of your mind to believe there is any coherency or consistency. Cyborg's NTT time has been referenced. At other times it's treated like it hasn't happened. Both are true.

[Restingvoice]

I'm not reading all of that, I'm just gonna remind people that the New 52 to Early Rebirth version of NTT is Dick, Kori and Roy

I don't know which team they refer here, the Fab Five, the Classic NTT, The Titans Hunt version, the New 52 version of NTT, or a mix of classic NTT and New 52 NTT therefore Roy and Cyborg are on the same team as Dick and Kori... and Donna and the others... I just know that Snyder lore is everything's canon so for all I know it could be all that

[Marilee]

There’s one big problem with all of this... which is that Kory did have a home away from the tower... She shared Donna’s apartment with her. And Vic also had his own place. They had rooms at the Tower... all the NTT did, but the only one who lived there consistently early on was Raven. Of course, with DC completely screwing up anything with regard to history (NTT specifically, but overall history in general), none of what they write makes any sense anyways.

[Midnighter]

I'm not reading all of that, I'm just gonna remind people that the New 52 to Early Rebirth version of NTT is Dick, Kori and Roy

I don't know which team they refer here, the Fab Five, the Classic NTT, The Titans Hunt version, the New 52 version of NTT, or a mix of classic NTT and New 52 NTT therefore Roy and Cyborg are on the same team as Dick and Kori... and Donna and the others... I just know that Snyder lore is everything's canon so for all I know it could be all that

When was there ever a New52 version of NTT? Up until just before Rebirth with 'Titans hunt" Tim's team were the first Titans.

[HandofPrometheus]

This one issue of JL was so good. Vic, Kory and Dick together again is just everything.

I think Kory's basically saying that Dick, Wally, Roy and Donna were already friends and had each other before even forming the team. I believe she then says that they had Superhero families to go back to most likely to relate with while Cyborg and Kory really only had each other to relate with. They couldn't go back home because they had none in that sense. It's weird because Cyborg still had his family but I don't think he lived with them. I believe he moved out, I don't remember. He did visit them from time to time though.

I don't think she's referencing NTT in particular because her comment was mostly about the Fab 5. I think Kory saying "the early days" is a reference to the Fab 5 days.

[Restingvoice]

When was there ever a New52 version of NTT? Up until just before Rebirth with 'Titans hunt" Tim's team were the first Titans.

The unnamed team that only has Dick, Kori, and Roy that became the back story of Red Hood and The Outlaws.

Roy also mentioned Lilith and Garth now that I remember, but New 52 decided to retcon Lilith into a villain, and Garth was an off-screen child until Titans Hunt retcons them back to be forgotten allies. So only Kori and Roy remained as part of that team.

[Godlike13]

She was talking about the Fab Five because she freaking listed them.

You guys are making absolutely no sense and are just plain not comprehending the words on the page. I can't explain it any clearer and you seem dedicated to misinterpreting it. You are assuming she is including herself with the rest of the list of people when she never does. At no point! And I don't know why you are trying to force that perspective in there.

Like seriously. How could he already be friends with Donna, Roy, and Wally when they met if the Fab Five didn't precede Starfire and Cyborg on the Teen Titans? Why IN THE WORLD do you think she's saying Roy was part of the NTT and Dick became friends with him, Donna, and Roy instead of Starfire and Cyborg? Her statement is that Dick's friendship with the Fab Five was already established by the time her early days in the Teen Titans started.

Key word here already. As in it was something that had happened in the past before her and Cyborg became friends. Please, please understand the reading comprehension here instead of trying to force this weird New 52 status quo into it.

I can't do this anymore. I am beating my head against a wall and I don't even know why I'm trying so hard to explain a basic conversation.

Again she is talking about her and Vic’s early days of being Teen Titans, not the early days of the Teen Titans. Her early days of being a Titan where Dick was already friends with the other Fab 5 members on team, and had his Bat family, while her and Vic were new and just lived in the Tower.
How could Dick already have deep bonds with the Fab 5 in the early days of the Fab 5, that doesn’t make sense. No one is saying the Fab Five didn’t exist, or Dick became friends with Wally, Donna, and Roy instead of Starfire and Cyborg. I don’t even know where your getting this from.