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  1. #7441
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly, I think a part of the reason Coogler MIGHT even consider going that direction would simply be because it's Micheal B. Jordan. A fairly big star who Coogler obviously enjoys working with. Not saying this option is a front runner by any means... but I wouldn't be 100% shocked if he opted to go in that direction.

    Given they are introducing a multiverse, MAYBE rather than resurrecting T'CHalla they somehow manage to pull a Black Panther from another reality who ends up being Killmonger. A version that might not be evil... or at least as evil. It's fiction, so options like that are always on the table.
    Coogler really needs to untether himself from Jordan every once in a while. I remember Coogler talking about he had initial concerns when coming on to direct BP because he himself didn't cast T'Challa. Well, now Mr Coogler this is your chance to show us.

  2. #7442
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    Coogler really needs to untether himself from Jordan every once in a while. I remember Coogler talking about he had initial concerns when coming on to direct BP because he himself didn't cast T'Challa. Well, now Mr Coogler this is your chance to show us.
    Course, if Coogler had the option to originally cast T'Challa one can't help but wonder if he wouldn't have chosen Jordan in the first place.

  3. #7443
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    How is the game in general?
    My early review from a week or two past launch, taken from the "Avengers" thread in the game forum. I stand by it; it's a good game that needed a little more TLC before launch but has tons of potential and, flaws and all, is still a enjoyable experience....even if it's kinda generic.

    This isn't in consideration for "game of the year" by any metric. Especially this year with FF7 Remake and Cyberpunk in the running (Cyberpunk *is* still releasing this year right, or was it delayed yet again?) but Avengers is a decent enough game. I'm a super casual gamer these days (I bought *two* games this year, more than I have in a long time!) so I'm not bothered by the fact that Avengers is kinda generic but if you have all the Destiny games and Far Cry and everything else.....the novelty of playing the Avengers will probably wear thin real quick.

    The good: The campaign story is pretty good and feels like a proper Avengers tale. The character designs don't look like the MCU actors but are still recognizable (except Hank Pym for some reason). The voice acting is pretty solid in most places, and the interactions between characters feel mostly on point. Combat is *generally* fun (Hulk requires some leveling before he's any good) and once you get some levels in you'll usually feel pretty badass. Each character has their own set of moves and powers and while you're playing Iron Man you feel like you're playing Tony, and not "generic protagonist armored guy." The marketplace doesn't really have any "pay to win" crap, it's all cosmetics you don't need for any reason other than looking shiny or some currency you can earn quickly and easily just by playing.

    The bad: The game needed some more polish and content before releasing; level layouts and bad guys are redundant and there isn't much in the way of super villains. It's a heavy gear grind with little incentive to keep playing beyond getting more gear or collectibles that provide blanket "invisible" buffs. I think I've run just about all the basic missions at this point and I already feel like there's nothing new to see and I'm just working on getting everyone to max level and getting them maxed out gear. Reports of errors and glitches and bugs are pretty high (as this thread can attest) though I myself have only come across such a problem once and that may well have been my PS4 overheating. The costume designs are pretty lackluster I think (though you'll likely find at least one costume you like for each character), and while everyone has a costume or two inspired by the comics there's usually no direct translation like we saw in Spider-Man's suits so you're still stuck with the questionable design aesthetics, only colored or tweaked slightly to look like "original sin" Iron Man or whoever. I also really loathe the cosmetic vendor; some stuff you can only find there and they rotate through a limited offering each day, so if you want that one specific, vendor-only suit for Thor.....you'll have to log in each day and hope it's available; with a dozen+ costumes for all six characters and only 2-3 offered by the vendor each day....good luck. I also really don't like the flight mechanic, it feels a little too loose to be really viable in most combat situations.

    The indifferent: Because this is a multiplayer game where you can pick from a variety of heroes with wildly different power levels, things are balanced in a way that makes high-end characters like Hulk and Thor feel less powerful than they rightfully should. The level ceiling is low; you can't fly over most buildings because Cap and Widow have to be able to access the same places, defeat the same enemies, etc. So that's kind of good and bad depending on how you look at it. If this had been a single player game, levels could have been designed with specific characters in mind, but since you can pick any hero for any mission and can play with others doing the same thing, we end up with an Iron Man who can only fly ten stories high and a Hulk who can't throw a tank with one hand. But that also means Widow and Cap are viable choices too.

    The good news is that most of the problems with the game can be fixed in future updates; new villains, minions, and levels can be added along with new heroes, more unique gear, bug fixes, etc. And I suspect that this is what will happen....but it's gonna take time.

    If they put the work in, I think by this time next year Avengers could be a really solid (if still somewhat generic) game with enough variety to make most everyone happy. But right now it's kind of....average. I'm mostly happy with the purchase, but like I said I'm a super casual player and my expectations going in were pretty low. If you're more discerning, maybe wait for a sale or wait for more content to be added. We're getting Kate Bishop next month and Clint in November, maybe see what they add with those characters and decide then.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #7444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    There are people that wanted shuri to replace tchalla when the movie was still in theatres. The same people are now saying you can't recast out of the guise of respect. It's transparent af. Websites like Wegotthiscovered are garbage. And if they do replace him in the MCU, you're kidding yourself if you don't think it will spill over into the comic side. Maybe we'll get a hank pym and tchalla mini in a couple years
    If Shuri does get the mantle (right now at least), it's the end of the BP franchise as a T'Challa-led series as we know it. Shuri checks more diversity boxes than him and by the end of her tenure in the MCU she'll very likely be more popular as well. Marvel goes back to the "Man Without Fear" era of her as the "real" BP and queen while T'Challa becomes a free entity.

    Shuri becomes the default BP in video games and other media and in the comics she probably becomes the BP on the main Avengers team. Who gets the solo ongoing is anyone's guess but it'll most likely be a buddy cop thing. It'll be a huge shift if they really go all in on the synergy.

    Now, we were probably gonna get to that point anyway, just not to the same degree or this quickly. I think Shuri was always going to get the mantle eventually, but at least T'Challa would've been established for a generation with the level of depth and development Tony and Steve got before getting replaced. So instead of being a short-lived predecessor to Shuri, T'Challa would be an icon unto himself.

    The comics would be forced to keep him at the head of the mythos or at least give them equal billing, because the MCU is what's been driving his push. If T'Challa is replaced with Shuri, who will go on to become this generation's BP, then Marvel could easily position her as the new face of the franchise both in and out of comics. T'Challa will be kept around, sure, but not with the same degree of prominence.

    And it's arguably because Disney/Marvel wants more prominent female characters, especially women of color, that I suspect they're leaning towards a shifting of the mantle. They already got Blade coming in, so at least for now they have a prominent solo black-male led franchise. Once his movie comes out dude will probably be kept in consistent publication.

    And as long as they keep T'Challa around in the comics, make him available in DLCs, and use him slightly in animation (which is irrelevant anyway), they still technically have a prominent black male in the BP mythos, even if it will ostensibly led by a female. I could see the appeal for them with that agenda in mind. The question is will Shuri be as successful across all mediums as T'Challa? And of course if creators even want to use her as the "true" BP.

  5. #7445
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    I might come of as insensitive here or maybe inconsiderate but if they decide to shift the BP mantle to Shuri for BP2 then I'm going to lose interest in the BP MCU franchsie. Its bad enough that T'Challa gets treated the way he is in his own solo and to then to this to him in the movies would be the final straw for me.

  6. #7446
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Shuri does get the mantle (right now at least), it's the end of the BP franchise as a T'Challa-led series as we know it. Shuri checks more diversity boxes than him and by the end of her tenure in the MCU she'll very likely be more popular as well. Marvel goes back to the "Man Without Fear" era of her as the "real" BP and queen while T'Challa becomes a free entity.

    Shuri becomes the default BP in video games and other media and in the comics she probably becomes the BP on the main Avengers team. Who gets the solo ongoing is anyone's guess but it'll most likely be a buddy cop thing. It'll be a huge shift if they really go all in on the synergy.

    Now, we were probably gonna get to that point anyway, just not to the same degree or this quickly. I think Shuri was always going to get the mantle eventually, but at least T'Challa would've been established for a generation with the level of depth and development Tony and Steve got before getting replaced. So instead of being a short-lived predecessor to Shuri, T'Challa would be an icon unto himself.

    The comics would be forced to keep him at the head of the mythos or at least give them equal billing, because the MCU is what's been driving his push. If T'Challa is replaced with Shuri, who will go on to become this generation's BP, then Marvel could easily position her as the new face of the franchise both in and out of comics. T'Challa will be kept around, sure, but not with the same degree of prominence.

    And it's arguably because Disney/Marvel wants more prominent female characters, especially women of color, that I suspect they're leaning towards a shifting of the mantle. They already got Blade coming in, so at least for now they have a prominent solo black-male led franchise. Once his movie comes out dude will probably be kept in consistent publication.

    And as long as they keep T'Challa around in the comics, make him available in DLCs, and use him slightly in animation (which is irrelevant anyway), they still technically have a prominent black male in the BP mythos, even if it will ostensibly led by a female. I could see the appeal for them with that agenda in mind. The question is will Shuri be as successful across all mediums as T'Challa? And of course if creators even want to use her as the "true" BP.
    All this is meaningless if T'Challa isn't sat at the prominent table (The movies). Comics and cartoons are great but those mediums aren't what made T'Challa or Black Panther a household name or facilitate a global cultural movement that generated $1.3Billion and 3 Oscars. Black Panther as a mantle isn't that special or unique; it's the individual carrying that responsibility and that individual is and should ALWAYS be T'Challa. T'Challa isn't his sister, nor is he T'Chaka, Azuri, Bashenga etc al. T'Challa himself is the most unique of any Wakandan ruler or mantle holder of Black Panther. It's this character that has done the heavy lifting and taken all the crap since his inception...was able to stand out like a star player in a movie with fan favourites in IM, Cap and Spidey (making his MCU debut), was responsible for a cinematic phenomena and now because of a tragic situation which could easily be resolved with a recast that has to be thrown away or the character resigned to mediums he occasionally gets to shine in in favour of a new character? No thanks! I want MY King smack-dab up on the movie screen where he belongs. With T'Challa and the mediums he appears in it should be a top to bottom approach and no the other way round or with him just at the bottom where he's been for so long.
    Last edited by Chesterfield; 09-28-2020 at 08:15 AM.

  7. #7447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    I might come of as insensitive here or maybe inconsiderate but if they decide to shift the BP mantle to Shuri for BP2 then I'm going to lose interest in the BP MCU franchsie. Its bad enough that T'Challa gets treated the way he is in his own solo and to then to this to him in the movies would be the final straw for me.
    Screw sounding incentive. It is what it is. We're all here for T'Challa and anything less is just unacceptable. They give T'Challa the shaft then I'm done.

  8. #7448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    All this is meaningless if T'Challa isn't sat at the prominent table (The movies). Comics and cartoons are great but those mediums aren't what made T'Challa or Black Panther a household name or facilitate a global cultural movement that generated $1.3Billion and 3 Oscars. Black Panther as a mantle isn't that special or unique; it's the individual carrying that responsibility and that individual is and should ALWAYS be T'Challa. T'Challa isn't his sister, nor is he T'Chaka, Azuri, Bashenga etc al. T'Challa himself is the most unique of any Wakandan ruler or mantle holder of Black Panther. It's this character that has done the heavy lifting and taken all the crap since his inception...was able to stand out like a star player in a movie with fan favourites in IM, Cap and Spidey (making his MCU debut), was responsible for a cinematic phenomena and now because of a tragic situation which could easily be resolved with a recast that has to be thrown away or the character resigned to mediums he occasionally gets to shine in in favour of a new character? No thanks! I want MY King smack-dab up on the movie screen where he belongs. With T'Challa and the mediums he appears in it should be a top to bottom approach and no the other way round or with him just at the bottom where he's been for so long.
    I agree entirely, I'm just laying out a possible trajectory for the franchise if he's phased out in favor of Shuri. As disappointed as I would be for T'Challa to be killed off again in the MCU, it's important that we know the motivations and implications. T'Challa won't simply stop being used in other mediums, but he'll evolve into being the secondary BP while Shuri, who checks more boxes and would be more popular, gets top billing.

    I want T'Challa to be immortalized on the big screen in the way Steve and Tony were before anyone else takes the mantle in the MCU. And it's not just about T'Challa maintaining his top spot within the mythos across all mediums. I don't see how Boseman's legacy is done justice by keeping his character off the table for a decade, but people are free to have their own perspectives on the matter.

  9. #7449
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    What does Jordan being alive have to do with it? His character is dead. From the logic parameters within the movie, if T'Challa was dead they'd bring him back to life a million times over before Killmonger. However, the character of T'Challa is ALIVE. The most sensible thing to do is bring in a new actor to inhabit the role. This is the movie businesses; emphasis on business. That's the reality.
    As for different Bond actors and none of them dying, the narrative being given the most galactic of pushes is, "no one else can do the role justice". It's nonsense. Most of the clowns spewing this garbage never knew who T'Challa was prior to 2016. How do you know Chadwick was the only actor to pull off this role? Where's your evidence? Have you seen another actor in the role because the rest of the world hasn't? Give a black actor this opportunity to continue the legacy of a character that is still very much alive!

    So if there finance people told them that they'd make more money with Shuri as BP, then that's what they should do right?

  10. #7450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    So if there finance people told them that they'd make more money with Shuri as BP, then that's what they should do right?
    Why bother? They'd need to have a magic crystal ball to make such conclusions so they'd be in a very different line of business or better yet they would have foreseen Chadwick's illness and gone with a different actor from the get go.

  11. #7451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    Why bother? They'd need to have a magic crystal ball to make such conclusions so they'd be in a very different line of business or better yet they would have foreseen Chadwick's illness and gone with a different actor from the get go.
    Projecting potential revenues from a course of action isn't magic. It may not be exact and factors like Covid or something similar can skew it but they can get fairly close, unless the movie bombs.

  12. #7452
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    So if there finance people told them that they'd make more money with Shuri as BP, then that's what they should do right?
    I'm pretty sure business wise the next BP movie will do well (or at least as well as can be expected) no matter what they do, so I don't think that will be the deciding factor. I think it's just a matter of Coogler doing what he wants. It'll work no matter what and it will make money no matter what.

  13. #7453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Projecting potential revenues from a course of action isn't magic. It may not be exact and factors like Covid or something similar can skew it but they can get fairly close, unless the movie bombs.
    I was being facetious. However, based on available statistics that can be extrapolated it would prove a greater ROI to recast the role. Films with a black male lead outperform those with a black female lead and if you look at the demographic stats for the first BP, the film appealed to more males than females then factor in the story arc being continued from the 1st film and that its of course a Marvel Studios film; it won't fail. The best option would be for them to have their cake and eat it too. Coogler gets to cast his T'Challa that pics up where Chadwick left off, an opportunity to cast younger so you can get more mileage out of the character and oh yeah, they get to focus on the character the franchise is actually built on and around. No one wants to see a batman movie that's not Bruce Wayne.

  14. #7454
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm pretty sure business wise the next BP movie will do well (or at least as well as can be expected) no matter what they do, so I don't think that will be the deciding factor. I think it's just a matter of Coogler doing what he wants. It'll work no matter what and it will make money no matter what.
    I was responding to someone emphasizing business being a deciding factor. My response uses that same logic to ask a question.

  15. #7455
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm pretty sure business wise the next BP movie will do well (or at least as well as can be expected) no matter what they do, so I don't think that will be the deciding factor. I think it's just a matter of Coogler doing what he wants. It'll work no matter what and it will make money no matter what.
    Agreed. Still, it's a small minority that will take issue with recasting. Such people are immaterial and should be ignored.

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