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  1. #7456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I was responding to someone emphasizing business being a deciding factor. My response uses that same logic to ask a question.
    T'Challa has proven to be a $Billion character. Every movie he's appeared in has made nothing less. If Shuri can make bank then they can have the confidence to give her her own spinoff movie or D+ show. There's zero need for her to encroach on T'Challa who needs no assistance from any character.

  2. #7457
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    Agreed. Still, it's a small minority that will take issue with recasting. Such people are immaterial and should be ignored.
    I think it's a minority which will take issue with any choice he makes. The majority of movie goers will be cool with whatever we get as long as it's a fun super hero film. He'll get complaints no matter what he does, but odds are the movie will be successful enough to the point where Disney and Coogler really won't be swayed either way.

  3. #7458
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    A lot of y'all are sounding hella entitled right now. That's all I'm gonna say.
    I'm not casting my vote on WHO should take over, I'm just expressing my opinion that the MCU should not just move a supporting cast member to the lead of a franchise that is not their own when the title characters story is far from over. Especially when this push is coming from people who have been pushing that agenda since before Chad passed and the movie literally was in theaters for less than 24 hours and those people were calling for Shuri to replace him.

    Ultimately, we have no say in the matter, and Feige and Coogler will do what they think is best. I can just say that my personal feeling is my attachment to the MCU at this point in my life is around T'Challa abd his world and I don't particularly care about catching every marvel movie, but if Shuri takes over then I'll probably be done with the MCU for awhile. Bit because I dislike Shuri, but because Im so sick of this black men vs women and the other must be cut down to prop up the other and that was something Chad fought hard to get rid of

  4. #7459
    Fantastic Member Pulp Fiction's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Shuri does get the mantle (right now at least), it's the end of the BP franchise as a T'Challa-led series as we know it. Shuri checks more diversity boxes than him and by the end of her tenure in the MCU she'll very likely be more popular as well. Marvel goes back to the "Man Without Fear" era of her as the "real" BP and queen while T'Challa becomes a free entity.

    Shuri becomes the default BP in video games and other media and in the comics she probably becomes the BP on the main Avengers team. Who gets the solo ongoing is anyone's guess but it'll most likely be a buddy cop thing. It'll be a huge shift if they really go all in on the synergy.

    Now, we were probably gonna get to that point anyway, just not to the same degree or this quickly. I think Shuri was always going to get the mantle eventually, but at least T'Challa would've been established for a generation with the level of depth and development Tony and Steve got before getting replaced. So instead of being a short-lived predecessor to Shuri, T'Challa would be an icon unto himself.

    The comics would be forced to keep him at the head of the mythos or at least give them equal billing, because the MCU is what's been driving his push. If T'Challa is replaced with Shuri, who will go on to become this generation's BP, then Marvel could easily position her as the new face of the franchise both in and out of comics. T'Challa will be kept around, sure, but not with the same degree of prominence.

    And it's arguably because Disney/Marvel wants more prominent female characters, especially women of color, that I suspect they're leaning towards a shifting of the mantle. They already got Blade coming in, so at least for now they have a prominent solo black-male led franchise. Once his movie comes out dude will probably be kept in consistent publication.

    And as long as they keep T'Challa around in the comics, make him available in DLCs, and use him slightly in animation (which is irrelevant anyway), they still technically have a prominent black male in the BP mythos, even if it will ostensibly led by a female. I could see the appeal for them with that agenda in mind. The question is will Shuri be as successful across all mediums as T'Challa? And of course if creators even want to use her as the "true" BP.
    Yeah. That's how it would go down. Honestly I'm scared. I want tchalla to be up there with batman, Spidey, etc, but If his cinematic character is retired and replaced, that's it for tchalla. The comics side would do the same thing to create synergy in hopes of boosting sales and tchalla ends up in limbo. That's also why I think the people petitioning for shuri to take over, weren't fans of tchalla to begin with or don't understand the potential ramifications

  5. #7460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Projecting potential revenues from a course of action isn't magic. It may not be exact and factors like Covid or something similar can skew it but they can get fairly close, unless the movie bombs.
    Well it's not just the movie's box office that needs to be taken into consideration. Toy sales and other merchandise are massively important too, plus attractions and other mediums. Disney has to not just consider how much a Shuri movie would make but how profitable she is as a solo multi-media IP in the way T'Challa is. A lot of that hinges on a hypothetical movie, but there's still a lot of guesswork and risk involved.

  6. #7461
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    These are the same conversations the house of Mouse is or will have.

    Disney wants another billion and no Blue Marvel movie (who unfans want) is going to do that.
    Nah, there's a difference between having this discussion like a sensible person, and having this discussion without taking your fanboy goggles off.

    Immediately demanding a recast barely a month after an actual human being and the actor involved has died is entitled. Saying that actors who might not want to replace said actor out of respect, potential discomfort or backlash, or controversy "need to man up" or are "cowards" is entitled. We talk about giving black men the same as white men. Why don't we allow black men access to the same emotions and self expression? Having emotions makes you less of a man now?

    And a lot of this comparisons don't make sense. Sean Connery is very much alive and did everything he wanted to do with James Bond and left. Christopher Reeve completed four Superman movies long before he had the horse riding accident and later died. His Superman was only recast 19 years after. Heath Ledger was never slated to be a major part of the Nolan Batman trilogy (and the Joker wasn't an aspirational character). Terrence Howard and Edward Norton were simply actors that had disagreements with the studio. Replacing them was easily, especially since those roles were supporting and didn't have a particular impact with anybody.

    The closest hypothetical examples I can think of would be if Heaven forbid, Chris Evans passed after Age of Ultron or if Tom Holland passed after Endgame. I can guarantee you that many people would call for Bucky and Miles Morales to take up the mantle. It will suck for Cap and Peter fans but it's not too farfetched or even wrong to have that idea. The closest real example to this is Paul Walker, who died while the Fast & Furious franchise was still going on and was becoming a global phenomenon. Yet, Brian wasn't recast. His character was written off.

    Yet none of these examples have the cultural significance Black Panther had for what it meant to an underrepresented racial minority. That is a lot of pressure to put on a new person.

    Some of y'all are acting like recasting is the easiest thing in the world. Who are the choices then? John David Washington? Probably would be hesitant to accept it, for obvious reasons, but also because of who his father is and the link he had with Chadwick. Personally, he's not proven himself as an actor to me yet (let's not pretend like he got a lead role in a Spike Lee and Christopher Nolan movie purely out of merit). Aldis Hodge? Good choice that's no longer available. Mahershala Ali? The perfect choice in my opinion but isn't available either (unless he somehow quits Blade). Every other actor aside from these isn't available, is a downgrade or would be miscast. So what exactly are the options right now?

  7. #7462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    Agreed. Still, it's a small minority that will take issue with recasting. Such people are immaterial and should be ignored.
    Dude, that's pretty harsh to make that statement and you really don't have an idea what that number actually is.

  8. #7463
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Shuri does get the mantle (right now at least), it's the end of the BP franchise as a T'Challa-led series as we know it.
    This fear mongering is almost hilarious. You guys realise that down the line almost everything in the MCU will get rebooted at some point, right?

    T'Challa isn't going anywhere because the MCU rights him off.

  9. #7464
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    The issue of what Marvel Studios does regarding T'Challa isn't a topic that can be ignored whether people want to talk about it or not. Demonizing people for having the conversation is straight up bogus.

    Marvel isn't making any decisions anytime soon so it's not like they'll make an announcement tomorrow of what their plans are. But people are going to voice their opinion. It's no disrespect to Chadwick Bosemen if they do.

  10. #7465
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Dude, that's pretty harsh to make that statement and you really don't have an idea what that number actually is.
    Exactly. You guys are really underestimating this shit.

    And you know what? I think I know the real reason why some are so quick and adamant with this recasting business but I won't speak.

  11. #7466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    I was being facetious. However, based on available statistics that can be extrapolated it would prove a greater ROI to recast the role. Films with a black male lead outperform those with a black female lead and if you look at the demographic stats for the first BP, the film appealed to more males than females then factor in the story arc being continued from the 1st film and that its of course a Marvel Studios film; it won't fail. The best option would be for them to have their cake and eat it too. Coogler gets to cast his T'Challa that pics up where Chadwick left off, an opportunity to cast younger so you can get more mileage out of the character and oh yeah, they get to focus on the character the franchise is actually built on and around. No one wants to see a batman movie that's not Bruce Wayne.
    Something people need to remember is Chad and Coogler both made sure that the movie gave everyone agency and that little Black girls saw themselves as more than damsels in distress. They had: a badass LI who was also a secret agent and had the right thinking from the start thst T'Challa eventually went with (lesser extent influenced by Erik).

    A genius disney princess who is quippy and fun.

    A badass warrior who is leader of an elite all female fighting group and the general of the Wakandan army, best warrior in Wakanda second only to T'Challa..

    Yet this isn't enough. They want then to take over and what, have. Little boys have a traitor and M'Baku? M'Baku is cool but he isn't T'Challa. And it's his world. Chad introduced us to it and the character and that character needs to continue to be explored. Not shelved for a agenda. Especially when it had done more for it's supporting cast than any other super hero solo movie, rivalling even ensemble hero movie's

  12. #7467
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    The issue of what Marvel Studios does regarding T'Challa isn't a topic that can be ignored whether people want to talk about it or not. Demonizing people for having the conversation is straight up bogus.

    Marvel isn't making any decisions anytime soon so it's not like they'll make an announcement tomorrow of what their plans are. But people are going to voice their opinion. It's no disrespect to Chadwick Bosemen if they do.
    I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it. My problem is how we're choosing too. I don't think a lot of us are actually considering what anyone else aside from the fanbase would want, especially what Coogler and the cast would want or feel comfortable with. That's why I'm calling it entitlement. Like, Black Panther isn't just ours anymore.

    It's easy for us to say the role should be recast is at the end of the day, all we want are more T'Challa stories. That's the most important thing to us. But what about the actual people that worked on the film? What about the people who were Chadwick's friends? Coogler knew him for real, unlike us who was just the guy playing our favourite character. We should consider how they feel about this too, instead of just spewing what we want.

    Why else do you think I've been saying I don't think Letitia Wright would be comfortable stepping into the mantle either? I'm not advocating for her to do it either, and the people saying Shuri should take over are forgetting that there's a real person behind that character who might be apprehensive, and it's not fair onto her either for her mentions to be filled with that.

    That's my point: look beyond what you want when discussing it. And stop acting like any decision that isn't yours is wrong.

  13. #7468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    Yeah. That's how it would go down. Honestly I'm scared. I want tchalla to be up there with batman, Spidey, etc, but If his cinematic character is retired and replaced, that's it for tchalla. The comics side would do the same thing to create synergy in hopes of boosting sales and tchalla ends up in limbo. That's also why I think the people petitioning for shuri to take over, weren't fans of tchalla to begin with or don't understand the potential ramifications
    Absolutely, T'Challa being written out at this point pretty much kills any possibility of him being elevated into the A-list like Spider-Man and Batman for a decade at minimum. A single solo film and 3 guest appearances will momentarily put T'Challa's foot through the door. But with all due respect, after a decade of Shuri, T'Challa will be more known for the noble circumstances surrounding Boseman's death and Shuri's ascension than anything he actually did in the MCU.

    I doubt he ends up in limbo, but he probably won't be pushed as the face of the franchise. Which is very likely what many wanted before or after they saw the first film. People were clamoring for Shuri to take the mantle a few weeks after it came out in 2018, T'Challa has for some people always been a means to an end.

    They didn't look at BP like a standard solo superhero property, they looked at it like an ensemble. So anyone (especially) the main hero is replaceable as the lead. Add in the fact the replacement is a woman of color? Is it any surprise Twitter and most of the major trades are campaigning for Shuri?

  14. #7469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    This fear mongering is almost hilarious. You guys realise that down the line almost everything in the MCU will get rebooted at some point, right?

    T'Challa isn't going anywhere because the MCU rights him off.
    If you want to deny the existence of MCU synergy that's up to you. I'm speaking on how the comics and other mediums will be affected if T'Challa isn't present in the MCU, one of the biggest pop culture phenomena of the 21st century.

    I've said multiple times he won't be killed off or go into limbo in any medium. He just won't be the only face in the franchise and will likely play second fiddle to Shuri until there is a reboot where he can get a full arc. The shift will be more dramatic for him because unlike Thor or Steve, he won't have been baked into the public's consciousness to the same extent if he's written out early. I'm not fearmongering, I'm having a discussion.

  15. #7470
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    TBF, if t'challa isn't in the MCU, you might as well write him off because he sucks everywhere else lol

    Not like it takes a major shift for him ot disappear. "oh no, T'challa won't be a DLC in a video game every 4 years"
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

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