Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Mike_Murdock]

Yes, but...

The actual STORY isn't an adaptation of Kirby, McGregor, Priest, or Hudlin. Other than some aesthetic choices and character backstories, I can't point to one thing that happened in the movie because "That's the way it happened in the comics".

Did you miss the part where Killmonger threw T'Challa off a waterfall?

Even if Namor shows up, it'll probably be as much a tie as that was.

[Blind Wedjat]

Did you miss the part where Killmonger threw T'Challa off a waterfall?

Even if Namor shows up, it'll probably be as much a tie as that was.

I think what DigiCom is trying to get at is that in this instance, Killmonger doesn't throw T'Challa off Warrior Falls due to the same story, circumstances and reasons in the comics. That moment then serves as more as a reference to those iconic panels, rather than being the same story of that comic.

It's kinda like how in BvS, the titular fight is inspired by The Dark Knight Returns but Superman and Batman don't fight for the same reasons and the story and circumstances leading to the fight are very different.

[MindofShadow]

If you're referring to the first Black Panther film, I disagree with this. I don't think that movie ignored almost all of the comics. One of the things I loved is its ability to reference and blend different parts of continuity together seamlessly in a way that worked for a cohesive new whole. It felt like Hudlin meets McGregor meets Priest with some Lee and Kirby thrown in for good measure.

I swear, my initial viewing was just me going




over and over and over again lol

[DigiCom]

I think what DigiCom is trying to get at is that in this instance, Killmonger doesn't throw T'Challa off Warrior Falls due to the same story, circumstances and reasons in the comics. That moment then serves as more as a reference to those iconic panels, rather than being the same story of that comic.

It's kinda like how in BvS, the titular fight is inspired by The Dark Knight Returns but Superman and Batman don't fight for the same reasons and the story and circumstances leading to the fight are very different.

Yes, this is what I was going for. Homaging a particular scene is not the same as retelling it. And the examples I gave were more than just "Oooh! Wouldn't it be cool if Coogler homaged that first scene in The Client?" People want the movies to retell the comics, and for some reason, BP gets more of this than others. I don't think I've seen ANYONE say that Doctor Strange should be depowered and turned into a veterinarian or some isht like that...

[BushidoBlade2]

While understand why people want to see it. I myself can't see MCU Shuri being the Black Panther. She hasn't shown any knowledge of hand to hand combat in the films. I thought that was the reason why Ramonda & Shuri told Nakia to eat the last heart shaped herb. Because Nakia is a martial artist and Shuri is not.

[MindofShadow]

While understand why people want to see it. I myself can't see MCU Shuri being the Black Panther. She hasn't shown any knowledge of hand to hand combat in the films. I thought that was the reason why Ramonda & Shuri told Nakia to eat the last heart shaped herb. Because Nakia is a martial artist and Shuri is not.

IMO, they specifically gave Shuri a thing (a non comic thing) JUST to set her apart from T'challa so she just isn't mini female T'challa so she cna have a totally different arc in the movies.

Yet people just wanna drag her back to mini female T'challa.

So far in the movies, it seems the Heir becomes Black Panther and eventually king, while the brothers/sisters go do something else. For N'jobobobbobobobo it was a War Dog. For Shuri, it was run the tech lab.

MCU Shuri is basically a whole new character. Just let her be Shuri.

[XPac]

While understand why people want to see it. I myself can't see MCU Shuri being the Black Panther. She hasn't shown any knowledge of hand to hand combat in the films. I thought that was the reason why Ramonda & Shuri told Nakia to eat the last heart shaped herb. Because Nakia is a martial artist and Shuri is not.

MCU Shuri becoming Black Panther is a MUCH different story than T'Challa... she's younger, and nowhere near as prepared. But I think in a lot of ways that's a good thing. While T'Challa is mostly ready to go right out of the gate (apart from dealing with a fair amount of emotional baggage), Shuri will have a long character arc to get her to where she needs to go She's going to have to grow into the role right before the audences eyes. It's an underdog story of a young girl defying expectations and overcoming the odds. It works in a different way than it did with T'Challa.

That's of course assuming Shuri ever becomes Black Panther. We're of course speaking hypothetically.

[Blind Wedjat]

While understand why people want to see it. I myself can't see MCU Shuri being the Black Panther. She hasn't shown any knowledge of hand to hand combat in the films. I thought that was the reason why Ramonda & Shuri told Nakia to eat the last heart shaped herb. Because Nakia is a martial artist and Shuri is not.

So-called 'scoopers' and dedicated websites for speculating and running rumours about the next big superhero film only push these things forward based on comic book history. There has been no set-up for Shuri to become the Black Panther in the three MCU films she's appeared in. Of course, things can change but as for now there's no evidence to suggest that being the plan. It's why I don't get so bothered when people on here claim the MCU is contributing to T'Challa erasure. Even beyond Coogler, Kevin Feige has shown to be the kind of guy that isn't too reactionary and has a plan (unless there are changes beyond his control). He isn't the kind of guy to just make Shuri the Black Panther just because he saw the reception she got. If anything, he's more likely to give the character her own space besides that.

Shuri's characterisation in the MCU feels like a deliberate attempt to separate her from her comic book counterpart who wanted to be BP more than anything, which is why it made sense when she finally got it. MCU Shuri would essentially be given a mantle she doesn't want/hasn't shown any interest in, or a role she would wildly reinvent to fit her persona and abilities.

[XPac]

IMO, they specifically gave Shuri a thing (a non comic thing) JUST to set her apart from T'challa so she just isn't mini female T'challa so she cna have a totally different arc in the movies.

Yet people just wanna drag her back to mini female T'challa.

So far in the movies, it seems the Heir becomes Black Panther and eventually king, while the brothers/sisters go do something else. For N'jobobobbobobobo it was a War Dog. For Shuri, it was run the tech lab.

MCU Shuri is basically a whole new character. Just let her be Shuri.

And that perspective works perfectly so long as you have Boseman. Just like you don't need Sam becoming Captain American as long as Chris Evans is still under contract. But movies work differently than comics, in that actors grow old and move on. A movie studio needs to be able to get ahead of that if they want to retain a valuable IP. MCU isn't even really hiding the fact that they've got a spare Thor and a spare Captain America all ready to go. Pretty sure there's another Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Iron Man coming down the pike too. I believe they are even making a She-Hulk TV series. Shuri being a replacement Black Panther I think just goes along with that sort of mentality. These are billion dollar franchises, and Disney obviously doesn't want that to just vanish into thin air once an actor is ready to walk off into the sunset if they can help it.

[Overhazard]

The impression that I got from MCU Shuri is that she doesn't even want to be in charge. She's more than happy being in her lab making stuff. She loves being part of the royal family, she loves her mom and her brother, but she doesn't want to be a superhero or a queen. How are they going to get more heart shaped herb anyway? Would it even be a thing or just a handwave-y "We genetically engineered a new crop." line.

[XPac]

The impression that I got from MCU Shuri is that she doesn't even want to be in charge. She's more than happy being in her lab making stuff. She loves being part of the royal family, she loves her mom and her brother, but she doesn't want to be a superhero or a queen. How are they going to get more heart shaped herb anyway? Would it even be a thing or just a handwave-y "We genetically engineered a new crop." line.

The thing with Shuri is she doesn't even need the heart shaped herb. She can go the Iron Man route if need be and become one of the most powerful heroes with gear alone ... which would make her a completely different BP. But that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

[MindofShadow]

How are they going to get more heart shaped herb anyway? Would it even be a thing or just a handwave-y "We genetically engineered a new crop." line.

I mean, people burn certain crops/plants all the time on purpose.

OR, a better idea, you can start BP2 with T'challa having to scale a mountain filled with various McGregor/Hudlin type creatures to get the wild variant to restart it. Ala from comic book BP worthiness trials. That would be cool AF lol

[Ezyo1000]

MCU Shuri becoming Black Panther is a MUCH different story than T'Challa... she's younger, and nowhere near as prepared. But I think in a lot of ways that's a good thing. While T'Challa is mostly ready to go right out of the gate (apart from dealing with a fair amount of emotional baggage), Shuri will have a long character arc to get her to where she needs to go She's going to have to grow into the role right before the audences eyes. It's an underdog story of a young girl defying expectations and overcoming the odds. It works in a different way than it did with T'Challa.

That's of course assuming Shuri ever becomes Black Panther. We're of course speaking hypothetically.

except its not defying expectations and overcoming odds because as clearly shown in the movie, anyone can be a warrior, they wanted nakia tontake the HSH, nakia said okoye was the greatest warrior in Wakanda (and before any tried to jump onto this, the only reason she said she was the greatest was because at this point its assumed that T'Challa is dead) so no, there isn't something for her to overcome on the sense of what's expected of her. What she would likely have to overcome would be her rather staying on her lab. Basically MCU Shuri is more inline with how Coates tried to portray T'Challa. She's more a scientist at heart where T'Challa is the warrior, king, genius, superhero at heart.

That's the big difference and that's what people need to get into their heads. MCU Shuri has not been groomed to take the thrown or the mantle. You can see it when mbaku and Erik were challenging, she wanted none of that.

She shouldn't become BP, she should go her own path that fits her character

[Ezyo1000]

I mean, people burn certain crops/plants all the time on purpose.

OR, a better idea, you can start BP2 with T'challa having to scale a mountain filled with various McGregor/Hudlin type creatures to get the wild variant to restart it. Ala from comic book BP worthiness trials. That would be cool AF lol

There's two things I want (well 3 but one is a alternative) either thr start of a beautiful wedding between T'Challa and Nakia that gives us that love letter scene we got in the first when being introduced to Wakanda, or what you mentioned above (maybe both I dunno) abd then for T'Challa to call back to the joke about improving something that works perfectly to Shuri, that is seriously a
easy running joke that is light-hearted and playful enough to show the familiarity between the siblings and establishing his super genius skk ib one go without actually having him need to DO anything other then give her the updated schematics

[XPac]

except its not defying expectations and overcoming odds because as clearly shown in the movie, anyone can be a warrior, they wanted nakia tontake the HSH, nakia said okoye was the greatest warrior in Wakanda (and before any tried to jump onto this, the only reason she said she was the greatest was because at this point its assumed that T'Challa is dead) so no, there isn't something for her to overcome on the sense of what's expected of her. What she would likely have to overcome would be her rather staying on her lab. Basically MCU Shuri is more inline with how Coates tried to portray T'Challa. She's more a scientist at heart where T'Challa is the warrior, king, genius, superhero at heart.

That's the big difference and that's what people need to get into their heads. MCU Shuri has not been groomed to take the thrown or the mantle. You can see it when mbaku and Erik were challenging, she wanted none of that.

She shouldn't become BP, she should go her own path that fits her character

The thing is, Shuri isn't Nakia or Okoye. They're already fighters...which is something that hasn't yet been established for Shuri. She MIGHT be and we just haven't seen it yet... or it's something they can develop overtime. But at this point, I think the fact that Shuri was overlooked in the discussion of who to give the heart shaped herb is a descent indicator that being a warrior probably isn't her strong point yet. But of course things change.

But I do agree she doesn't want to become Black Panther. And I think that's what gives her a character arc here. I don't think Sam or Jane expressed any interest in becoming Thor or Cap either, but they'll be walking around carrying a shield and a hammer pretty soon.

The thing is marvel is basically setting up almost every single character to have a replacement. We know Captain America and Thor have one all set ... that's confirmed. There's good reason to beleive that Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Iron Man might as well. She-Hulk is getting a TV show, and a teenage Cassie Lang now exists who can potentially take over for Ant-Man. Disney isn't stupid... they know that unlike in the comics actors age and decide to move on. Unless Disney wants to abandon a potentially billion dollar IP, they're not just going to let it die once an actor is ready to walk off into the sunset. They are going to want to keep it going because the IP has potential value even without the actor. In this regard BP is no different than Cap or Thor or the rest.

You can argue it doesn't HAVE to be Shuri. She's the most logical choice (given she's still fairly young and it would be a move consistant with the source material), but obviously they can do a different route if they want to. But I think it would be a mistake to completely discount her entirely.