Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

Bro, I wish I knew why. Maybe they're afraid to release it because the sales would bomb ever worse right now. It wasn't doing that great pre-covid.

Maybe they didn't want to compete with the big events and other new #1s being released and have some kind of promotional build up to the story of "a king who became a slave, a slave who became a rebel, a rebel who became a...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

Maybe that's why.

If I had to guess ... I think the likely explanation is marvel is publishing at a limited capacity. So they are like only publishing the books they need to publish. By need I mean books that aren't just doing their own thing like Black Panther or Runaways. They have a schedule of events to try and maintain, and not publishing say Venom throws that off. But Black Panther isn't tied to anything, so it doesn't effect the rest of the line if it's delayed.

Again, that's just a guess.

[Marvell2100]

It is not but Chadwick is so tied to the role and did so well that the next person will have a hard time. They will be people who are unable to see T'challa as anyone other than Chadwick. Then you have to find actor the caliber of Chadwick then imagine if the actor isn't good and what that will do the brand/character. The big point is this isn't easy decision and bothsides dicussion have real downsides. I am actually on the side of recast but I am fine whatever direction they go because it is a tough choice.

Now the one thing move on does is give us a chance at closure. And a well written ending to T'challa give us a chance to grieve Chadwick and Black Panther. And leave the legacy of character the actor had in tact.

Anyways there is no easy answer here and the sad part of this is Chadwick didn't get to see the outpouring of love people had for him. I get he why he didn't saying anything he was 100% in belief that he was going to beat it but I wish we could gotten to share how much he meant to us while he was alive.

Why would the next actor have a hard time? Why would people assume that the next actor won't be good? I remember a lot of people saying Chadwick wouldn't be good as T'Challa.

How can you have closure of T'Challa's story when it just started? So people are just supposed to put T'challa on a shelf and forget about it? Should they stop making movies about James Brown, Thurgood Marshall or Jackie Robinson because Chadwick is dead?

There are a lot of things people can do to honor the legacy of Chadwick. Volunteer, mentor, donate, vote, be active in their community. Killing T'Challa and putting him on a shelf is not honoring Chadwick Boseman's legacy.

[Pumbaa]

Nah the agenda is definitely at play still but I agree that Coogler/Feige didn’t make T’Challa inextricably connected with the mantle. And it’s in part because of the reasons you outlined but also because the film was simply carried by its supporting cast to a heavier degree than any other major solo film. Let’s not act like one of the major criticisms of the first film wasn’t that T’Challa felt like he lost some of his edge from Civil War and was less engaging (some would say less interesting) than most of the other (primarily female) side characters.

I’d be lying if I said I haven’t seen online polls where Shuri and Okoye actually ranked higher than T’Challa in terms of popularity and likability. I personally disagree with the notion, but the reality is a lot of people saw the first Black Panther as an ensemble film where for them they found themselves gravitating towards other characters. So when an opportunity presents itself to remove the lead and replace it with another character, well they’re gonna take it, especially since we’ve already developed this mindset of the actor and the character being linked and thus it will be awkward to see anyone else play T’Challa.

Combine that with the media’s overwhelming desire for a black female led superhero film, which can only realistically come via Shuri and there’s a lot of push for T’Challa going away and being denied the opportunity to shine on the big screen for a decade like Cap/Tony. .

Yeah, I feel you. I'm sure the agenda driven people exist, I'm just not subscribed to them on YouTube but I'm still seeing overwhelmingly that people are saying they prefer a mantle pass rather than a recast. Even some videos I saw didn't think Shuri was right for the new BP but they still didn't want a recast. There's something else going on here besides the pro-Shuri crowd.

Yeah I've heard all those same criticisms,but then again I'm also seeing people that love MCU T'challa saying they think he did such a good job that they should honor Chadwick by retiring the character. This is clearly a point of view that can't be altogether dismissed as an agenda from bad actors.

[MindofShadow]

It is not honoring him necessarily but Chadwick is so tied to the role and did so well that the next person will have a very hard time. They will be people who are unable to see T'challa as anyone other than Chadwick.

There is some huge revisionist history happening now. There was a not small contingent that did not like T'Chadwick and thought someone else could embody T'challa more. And Thought T'challa was completely overshadowed by MJB, Duke, ect. Some of them are in this very thread now.

I'm not gonna say anymore than that and I definitely was not one of them as I defended the dude from day one but it is real.

Well yea, I've been saying this for months. The Russos unintentionally did some damage to the Black Panther mythos with the changes they made to his origin for Civil War, and how they handled the fallout of the events of Infinity War in Endgame for Wakanda. Even taking Wakanda out of it, the five year gap was completely unnecessary to that story and the only person it benefitted was Tony Stark who could have a daughter young enough to be adorable but old enough to not be a baby. All of this is stuff Coogler is/was forced to worked with because he has to abide by continuity and I never liked that.

Russo's don't care about T'challa lol. He was a means to an end. He was an afterthought. "****, we lost spider-man, who else can we add in? Let's just expand T'challas role."

"Yes, we got spider-man back, lets shoe horn him into the conflict in a way that makes no narrative sense at all and accomplishes nothing to the story!"

The hard on for certain characters isn't just a comics issue.

There was literally no reason to snap T'challa. He could have easily taken Okoye's roll in the film and you could have snapped Okoye, Mbaku, Nakia, Shuri, Ramonda and left T'challa in isolation without his support. He could have still showed up in the end with Wakanda's army.

Instead of Endgame starting with more Hawkeye dick riding (Ronin made no fucking sense and was a waste of time in the movie), imagine T'challa frantically running back to the golden city to see that his sister, mom, and nakia were snapped out of existence after just watching Okoye, Mabku, and half his army disappear.

But watching Hawkeye's crappy choreograpy in Japan was cool!

[Marvell2100]

If I had to guess ... I think the likely explanation is marvel is publishing at a limited capacity. So they are like only publishing the books they need to publish. By need I mean books that aren't just doing their own thing like Black Panther or Runaways. They have a schedule of events to try and maintain, and not publishing say Venom throws that off. But Black Panther isn't tied to anything, so it doesn't effect the rest of the line if it's delayed.

Again, that's just a guess.

Books that are doing their own thing and not tied to an event:

Captain America
Black Widow
Spider-Woman
Daredevil
Thor
Shang-Chi

Just to name a few. So that should apply to them as well.

[Marvell2100]

In case some people were wondering what Michael B. Jordan and Evan Narcisse are up to:

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/mic...ve-1234770134/

[XPac]

Yeah, I feel you. I'm sure the agenda driven people exist, I'm just not subscribed to them on YouTube but I'm still seeing overwhelmingly that people are saying they prefer a mantle pass rather than a recast. Even some videos I saw didn't think Shuri was right for the new BP but they still didn't want a recast. There's something else going on here besides the pro-Shuri crowd.

Yeah I've heard all those same criticisms,but then again I'm also seeing people that love MCU T'challa saying they think he did such a good job that they should honor Chadwick by retiring the character. This is clearly a point of view that can't be altogether dismissed as an agenda from bad actors.

Yeah, the push to see Shuri become BP is probably the coincidental culmination of 2 or 3 completely independent agendas.

There are people probably just trolling because Twitter is twitter. And there are people who I honestly do believe don't want to see another character as Tchalla ... it just feels somehow wrong ( though people arguing its disrespect take it too far). And I dam well know people are pushing for a minority female lead ... I hear that noise everyday.

Lot of differing agendas and perspectives sort of conveniently dovetail into that idea of Shuri being BP. Probably why its louder than some might expect it to be.

[XPac]

Books that are doing their own thing and not tied to an event:

Captain America
Black Widow
Spider-Woman
Daredevil
Thor
Shang-Chi

Just to name a few. So that should apply to them as well.

Those books still might tie into future events, but you are 100% certain Coates BP books aren't because his book is ending anyways so it doesn't matter when they are released.

Of course, if they could launch the new BP creative team, which likewise potentially could be important to or at least tie into the greater MU, but that means launching the new BP book in the middle of a pandemic. That might be something they want to avoid.

Again, I don't know ... just speculating.

[Marvell2100]

Those books still might tie into future events, but you are 100% certain Coates BP books aren't because his book is ending anyways so it doesn't matter when they are released.

Of course, if they could launch the new BP creative team, which likewise potentially could be important to or at least tie into the greater MU, but that means launching the new BP book in the middle of a pandemic. That might be something they want to avoid.

Again, I don't know ... just speculating.

If it doesn't matter then they should release the issues so that the future BP book could tie into an upcoming event.

[XPac]

If it doesn't matter then they should release the issues so that the future BP book could tie into an upcoming event.

Yeah but again, they might not want to relaunch the future BP book in the middle of a pandemic . It might be similar reasoning to holding off certain movies in theaters .. wait until the circumstances are more favorable.

Of course there could be dozens of other reasons we don't know about. We're just speculating.

[Killerbee911]

Why would the next actor have a hard time? Why would people assume that the next actor won't be good? I remember a lot of people saying Chadwick wouldn't be good as T'Challa.

How can you have closure of T'Challa's story when it just started? So people are just supposed to put T'challa on a shelf and forget about it? Should they stop making movies about James Brown, Thurgood Marshall or Jackie Robinson because Chadwick is dead?

There are a lot of things people can do to honor the legacy of Chadwick. Volunteer, mentor, donate, vote, be active in their community. Killing T'Challa and putting him on a shelf is not honoring Chadwick Boseman's legacy.

Anybody following after Hugh Jackman, RDJ, Chris Evans and Chadwick is going to have a hard time they embodied the part everything is going to be comparison that will negatively effect things. Heath Ledger was murked by the fanbase, Robert Patterson as batman has to be amazing or he is going to be destroyed. Following in a role won't be easy thing and yes you can get a dud for follow up actor.

Anyways I am not going back forth with people, You don't agree fine with my perspective fine. I know it won't be easy decision and I am fine with whatever direction they go I can see both direction working and I can either one failing. I think they are valid reasons for either choice.

[Marvell2100]

Yeah but again, they might not want to relaunch the future BP book in the middle of a pandemic . It might be similar reasoning to holding off certain movies in theaters .. wait until the circumstances are more favorable.

Of course there could be dozens of other reasons we don't know about. We're just speculating.

Books relaunched in the middle of the pandemic:

Iron Man
Spider-Woman
Black Widow

[Marvell2100]

Anybody following after Hugh Jackman, RDJ, Chris Evans and Chadwick is going to have a hard time they embodied the part everything is going to be comparison that will negatively effect things. Heath Ledger was murked by the fanbase, Robert Patterson as batman has to be amazing or he is going to be destroyed. Following in a role won't be easy thing and yes you can get a dud for follow up actor.

Anyways I am not going back forth with people, You don't agree fine with my perspective fine. I know it won't be easy decision and I am fine with whatever direction they go I can see both direction working and I can either one failing. I think they are valid reasons for either choice.

Yeah I don't agree but it's all good, no harm no foul.

Iron Man and Cap had their character arcs completed within the MCU. T'Challa hasn't.

[MindofShadow]

Iron Man and Cap had their character arcs completed within the MCU. T'Challa hasn't.

T'challa's arc didn't start until he opened the country at the end of the movie. That is when T'challa truly became T'challa.

Until then he was just another Wakandan king and Black panther.

[dkrook]

There is some huge revisionist history happening now. There was a not small contingent that did not like T'Chadwick and thought someone else could embody T'challa more. And Thought T'challa was completely overshadowed by MJB, Duke, ect. Some of them are in this very thread now.

I'm not gonna say anymore than that and I definitely was not one of them as I defended the dude from day one but it is real.



Russo's don't care about T'challa lol. He was a means to an end. He was an afterthought. "****, we lost spider-man, who else can we add in? Let's just expand T'challas role."

"Yes, we got spider-man back, lets shoe horn him into the conflict in a way that makes no narrative sense at all and accomplishes nothing to the story!"

The hard on for certain characters isn't just a comics issue.

There was literally no reason to snap T'challa. He could have easily taken Okoye's roll in the film and you could have snapped Okoye, Mbaku, Nakia, Shuri, Ramonda and left T'challa in isolation without his support. He could have still showed up in the end with Wakanda's army.

Instead of Endgame starting with more Hawkeye dick riding (Ronin made no fucking sense and was a waste of time in the movie), imagine T'challa frantically running back to the golden city to see that his sister, mom, and nakia were snapped out of existence after just watching Okoye, Mabku, and half his army disappear.

But watching Hawkeye's crappy choreograpy in Japan was cool!

MoS lol, you a good one! I never thought about it in that way, but that Hawkeye tribute roll was janky to watch. If ever there was a misstep from Marvel it had to be the decision to dust T'Challa after all the momentum that was building. They definitely weren't attentive to fan enthusiasm. Then again the movies were made so close together and it would've been hard for them to know.