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  1. #2971
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    You can even ignore the combat scenes. T'Challa had a real story arc in CW. Two scenes that to were closest to BP from the comics were: 1. The park bench scene when he is talking to widow and the vehicle ride scene when makes his warrior to warrior statement.

    Those scenes were short but they were so strong. I actually wanted to see more of that T'Challa in the BP movie. Those characters seem so different. I know he was angry and wanted revenge but he is not out of control. He is quiet, precise, and intimidating. That is the most dangerous man in the world.
    Did you also miss this entire scene?



    You know... the one where:
    1. He admits to have been deceived,
    2. Realises his emotions have been in the wrong place,
    3. And then decides to let go of said emotions and be a better man?


    Did you miss all of that?

    Wanting T'Challa to go back to being pissed off at everyone is character regression. It's regressing the entire thing you just called a story arc. That's why it's called anarc.

    Can't believe we still have to argue this.

  2. #2972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    He didn't have a tenure, his dad did. The most reasonable thing for them to do would have been to test Tchalla and make sure he was worthy. His respect should have had to have been earned rather than hereditary as it was in the movie (Mbaku being the exception).

    Btw my critics are only about the handling of Tchalla. Every thing else was good.

    A supporting cast can be fleshed out without nerfing the titular character. Bottom line is that someone looked at Tchalla and said "yeah, thats to much" and nerfed him. Taking is intelligence away to prop up Shuri (she was fine with her own capabilities) is akin to letting Pepper Pots make all of Starks suits for him while he cracks jokes and fights.
    Is there anyone here who thought Hudlins Shuri was unmarketable or lacking in attributes?
    Even with the changes they made for Shuri, they could have written an interesting sibling rivalry between the two. Think about it. Shuri challenging T'Challa about who created the best tech. I just want t BP who is more than a Wakanda copy of Captain America.

  3. #2973
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    He didn't have a tenure, his dad did. The most reasonable thing for them to do would have been to test Tchalla and make sure he was worthy. His respect should have had to have been earned rather than hereditary as it was in the movie (Mbaku being the exception).

    Btw my critics are only about the handling of Tchalla. Every thing else was good.

    A supporting cast can be fleshed out without nerfing the titular character. Bottom line is that someone looked at Tchalla and said "yeah, thats to much" and nerfed him. Taking is intelligence away to prop up Shuri (she was fine with her own capabilities) is akin to letting Pepper Pots make all of Starks suits for him while he cracks jokes and fights.
    Is there anyone here who thought Hudlins Shuri was unmarketable or lacking in attributes?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, (as I haven't bothered to watched it) but doesn't something like this happen on IM 3? I have heard something like pepper essentially kinda chumps Tony to some extent in the 3rd act?

    The thing with Shuri is that she needed a role. Nakia is the spy, Okoye is the warrior and Shuri is Q. Coogler had it known that T'Challa is a genius as he designed his habit. All that really needs to be done while keeping Shuris role is to simply have T'Challa make modifications to the habit (or give the schematics to Shuri to have her implement them due to not having time to spend in a lab) while playing on the joke from the first movie about improving things that work. Simple. Established T'Challas a super genius but has to run a country, Shuri is still in her role without anyone getting sidelined, continues the running joke and sibling banter. See how quickly I solved that issue?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    It's like watching the Cap Vs Baltroc fight and then deciding it's a poor showing for Cap because Baltroc (an un-enhanced, no-name villain) knocks him off his feet three times, actually goes toe to toe with him, Cap can't get him to stay down despite two attempts, and then fails to stop him from escaping. We all love the TWS fights, fight? And Cap is a beast in them, right?

    This is what nitpicking is like, and a lot of us do it here. Gets on my nerves.
    Also Cap doesn't beat Bucky either dude is pounding his face in at the end of their fight. Really the only T'Challa has straight up win his fight by Killing the villain in a no bullisht way. Straight dagger to the gut.

    Any movie no matter how great can be picked apart. TWS is just as vulnerable to this as BP

  4. #2974
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    Even with the changes they made for Shuri, they could have written an interesting sibling rivalry between the two. Think about it. Shuri challenging T'Challa about who created the best tech. I just want t BP who is more than a Wakanda copy of Captain America.
    There's more to him than just being Wakanda's champion. Steves a great american hero, but hes not president.

    Plus, I think there was a bit of a sibling rivalry. T'Challa apparently designed the earlier suit, and Shuri improved upon it. It's not a HUGE issue between them and it shouldn't be, but you can argue there was a small bit of rivalry there.

  5. #2975
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, (as I haven't bothered to watched it) but doesn't something like this happen on IM 3? I have heard something like pepper essentially kinda chumps Tony to some extent in the 3rd act?

    The thing with Shuri is that she needed a role. Nakia is the spy, Okoye is the warrior and Shuri is Q. Coogler had it known that T'Challa is a genius as he designed his habit. All that really needs to be done while keeping Shuris role is to simply have T'Challa make modifications to the habit (or give the schematics to Shuri to have her implement them due to not having time to spend in a lab) while playing on the joke from the first movie about improving things that work. Simple. Established T'Challas a super genius but has to run a country, Shuri is still in her role without anyone getting sidelined, continues the running joke and sibling banter. See how quickly I solved that issue?




    Also Cap doesn't beat Bucky either dude is pounding his face in at the end of their fight. Really the only T'Challa has straight up win his fight by Killing the villain in a no bullisht way. Straight dagger to the gut.

    Any movie no matter how great can be picked apart. TWS is just as vulnerable to this as BP
    Pepper never creates an armor. She just gets powers and beats up the bad guy for Tony.(everyone hated it).

    I know you can fix it. Will Marvel? Because all the interviews i hear talk about her being the most intelligent person in the MCU with zero side mention of Tchalla being in the conversation.

    And when Reed Richards shows up then what? Will she be second? Or will they give Reeds intellence to Sue to make her stand out?

    Somehow i doubt they will need Reed to preserve Shuris new place...Reed not being a scary too perfect black guy and all.

  6. #2976
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, (as I haven't bothered to watched it) but doesn't something like this happen on IM 3? I have heard something like pepper essentially kinda chumps Tony to some extent in the 3rd act?
    Pepper had been infected with the Extremis virus, which suddenly turned her into a badass and she defeated the main villain when Tony couldn't.

    That's hardly even comparable to Shuri making one of T'Challa's suits. But hey let's just be mad at everything.

  7. #2977
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Pepper never creates an armor. She just gets powers and beats up the bad guy for Tony.(everyone hated it).

    I know you can fix it. Will Marvel? Because all the interviews i hear talk about her being the most intelligent person in the MCU with zero side mention of Tchalla being in the conversation.

    And when Reed Richards shows up then what? Will she be second? Or will they give Reeds intellence to Sue to make her stand out?

    Somehow i doubt they will need Reed to preserve Shuris new place...Reed not being a scary too perfect black guy and all.
    In the last FF movie, they did actually decide to make Johnny and Sue super smart in addition to Reed, instead of Reed just bring the smart one. Not that Sue needs intelligence to stand out as she arguably is the most powerful member of the FF.

    But there's always room for more than one smart person. In many Avengers stories we have multiple smart guys.

  8. #2978
    Spectacular Member XJlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, (as I haven't bothered to watched it) but doesn't something like this happen on IM 3? I have heard something like pepper essentially kinda chumps Tony to some extent in the 3rd act?

    The thing with Shuri is that she needed a role. Nakia is the spy, Okoye is the warrior and Shuri is Q. Coogler had it known that T'Challa is a genius as he designed his habit. All that really needs to be done while keeping Shuris role is to simply have T'Challa make modifications to the habit (or give the schematics to Shuri to have her implement them due to not having time to spend in a lab) while playing on the joke from the first movie about improving things that work. Simple. Established T'Challas a super genius but has to run a country, Shuri is still in her role without anyone getting sidelined, continues the running joke and sibling banter. See how quickly I solved that issue?




    Also Cap doesn't beat Bucky either dude is pounding his face in at the end of their fight. Really the only T'Challa has straight up win his fight by Killing the villain in a no bullisht way. Straight dagger to the gut.

    Any movie no matter how great can be picked apart. TWS is just as vulnerable to this as BP
    I believe there would be more chance for him to show other tech genius feats if he was put in situations where MCU Shuri is not in the vincinity or cannot simply be contacted quickly enough to solve the problem at end, since writers would probably be more inclined to write those moments for her if she was there.
    Last edited by XJlock; 04-23-2020 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #2979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Did you also miss this entire scene?



    You know... the one where:
    1. He admits to have been deceived,
    2. Realises his emotions have been in the wrong place,
    3. And then decides to let go of said emotions and be a better man?


    Did you miss all of that?

    Wanting T'Challa to go back to being pissed off at everyone is character regression. It's regressing the entire thing you just called a story arc. That's why it's called anarc.

    Can't believe we still have to argue this.
    I totally did not miss that scene. And guess what? That is a clear character arc. Did T'Challa have a clear arc in BP? Is his arc just breaking with Wakanda tradition and not remain hidden? I do not think he stated that he was against Wakanda's coming out of hiding. He just says it has not been the Wakandan way. That is why I said in a earlier post that he is a cypher for Wakanda. A more defined arc would have been him being totally against Wakanda and remaining with tradition and then changing his mind. Usually movies have a plot arch and the protagonist has a character arc. That defining arc does not happen with T'Challa?

  10. #2980
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There's more to him than just being Wakanda's champion. Steves a great american hero, but hes not president.

    Plus, I think there was a bit of a sibling rivalry. T'Challa apparently designed the earlier suit, and Shuri improved upon it. It's not a HUGE issue between them and it shouldn't be, but you can argue there was a small bit of rivalry there.
    I was thinking that Shuri would be the main one always trying to do more that T'Challa. Like the scene when she says she is smarter than him. I just thought it would be fun for them to challenge one another with their tech designs. Shuri is always doing things to him like when she had him kick the new suit and it sent him flying. Sure he is King but she is the annoying little sister whose brilliant. I guess I want my BP to be brilliant also. To be in the top 10 smartest characters in the Marvel Universe. So far the MCU BP has not been. He is more of a super soldier who happens now to be king.

  11. #2981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Did you also miss this entire scene?



    You know... the one where:
    1. He admits to have been deceived,
    2. Realises his emotions have been in the wrong place,
    3. And then decides to let go of said emotions and be a better man?


    Did you miss all of that?

    Wanting T'Challa to go back to being pissed off at everyone is character regression. It's regressing the entire thing you just called a story arc. That's why it's called anarc.

    Can't believe we still have to argue this.
    Civil War is easily one of my favorite movies, and this is one reason why. I keep getting annoyed by people who insist that T'Challa should have killed Zemo, despite how it would have gone against the basics of the movie itself

  12. #2982
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    I was thinking that Shuri would be the main one always trying to do more that T'Challa. Like the scene when she says she is smarter than him. I just thought it would be fun for them to challenge one another with their tech designs. Shuri is always doing things to him like when she had him kick the new suit and it sent him flying. Sure he is King but she is the annoying little sister whose brilliant. I guess I want my BP to be brilliant also. To be in the top 10 smartest characters in the Marvel Universe. So far the MCU BP has not been. He is more of a super soldier who happens now to be king.
    I think the fact that the movie goes out of its way to state that he designed the earlier suit is their way of saying he is brilliant also. It's not like any run of the mill soldier can design one of those. They're BOTH smart... it just so happens she's the smartest person in the MCU.

  13. #2983
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Civil War is easily one of my favorite movies, and this is one reason why. I keep getting annoyed by people who insist that T'Challa should have killed Zemo, despite how it would have gone against the basics of the movie itself
    Killing Zemo would have been lame. Firstly because it essentially flies in the face of the entire moral of the story as far as being blinded by vengeance goes. There was a character arc taking place for those that didn't notice.

    And secondly, Zemo is a potentially very useful character to have around if there's a Bucky show coming down the line, and possibly even a Thurderbolts movie. If he had tried killing Zemo he likely would have just failed because I think the MCU wants the guy around.

    So him sparing Zemo all around was the best choice for the movie, the characters, and th MCU going foreward.

  14. #2984
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    I totally did not miss that scene. And guess what? That is a clear character arc. Did T'Challa have a clear arc in BP? Is his arc just breaking with Wakanda tradition and not remain hidden? I do not think he stated that he was against Wakanda's coming out of hiding. He just says it has not been the Wakandan way. That is why I said in a earlier post that he is a cypher for Wakanda. A more defined arc would have been him being totally against Wakanda and remaining with tradition and then changing his mind. Usually movies have a plot arch and the protagonist has a character arc. That defining arc does not happen with T'Challa?
    T'Challa's arc in Black Panther is clear as day. All you have to do is watch his two Ancestral Plane scenes. His arc is about learning it's more important to be a good man than be a great king. That is also tied to embracing progress instead of tradition, and opening Wakanda instead of keeping it closed.

  15. #2985
    Get Hectic! FLEX HECTIC's Avatar
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    To whom it may concern...


    How do you like your Black Panther... Rare... Medium... Or well done?


    Get Hectic!

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