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  1. #3001
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just me and my understanding of the character. To me what makes t'challa the most dangerous man alive is his mind. Not his nobility not his tenacity not his fighting prowless not his powers not his title.
    I have yet to see it to even a half of its potential in the MCU

  2. #3002
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    You ain't neva lied! Lol. Some folk don't recognize it, some won't acknowledge it, and others really don't care. I think about how in the rush to liberal progressiveness I see more commercials and social media interactions with black men that are portrayed as gay where I would straight black would be traditionally placed. Don't get me everyone should have a representation, but it seems like shenanigans are afoot with straight black males
    Straight black men haven't disappeared from media just because black gay men are slightly more prominent.

  3. #3003
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    My argument is (and will always be) how important is T'Challa's inventiveness in the comics. How many conflicts has T'Challa solved because he invented something on the spot or with prep? Almost every major feat T'Challa has in the comics comes from outsmarting or outfighting someone. If you don't believe me, check out MindofShadow's blog.

    Name me one invention of T'Challa's that actually matters in the Marvel Universe. You can't say Vibranium, because it's an element and it was laid at his feet. You can't say Wakandan technology because depending on which history you accept, T'Challa made Wakanda advanced by selling Vibranium or Wakanda was advanced before he was born. You can't say it's his suit, because even when Priest gave it to him he never stated it was his invention. Even if it is, it's hardly been considered a valuable asset to the MU the same way an Iron Man suit is. Every other invention T'Challa has to his name has been completely ignored. The closest he ever came to this was Shadow Physics, but from the get go that was a poorly defined fictional science. There's not one clear definition on whatever "quantum physics mixed with alchemy" even means or what it does. It's the very definition of a plot device. And like every other thing, it's been ignored because it never stuck.

    No matter how much writers try to write T'Challa in this way, the simple and utter truth is that T'Challa is not a scientist. Never was, and never will be. Is he intelligent? Yes, but he's not a scientist. Tony Stark is a scientist. Hank Pym is a scientist. Reed Richards is a scientist. Can T'Challa understand a conversation between them and contribute to it? Yes, and that's why he learned Western science in the first place (and mind you, MCU T'Challa has actually been shown to understand technology).

    In the same way I can read Priest's run when he had a team of scientists monitor and deplete Mephisto's energy instead of doing it himself to prove his intelligence, and not get mad about it or say he was chumped...is the same way I can watch the movie where Shuri invents the tech he uses.

  4. #3004
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Night Thrasher suit is far less impressive than T'Challa's.



    Is this about the comics or movies? Both Batman and T'Challa are equals when it comes to sciences, T'Challa began as Reed's equal. In the movies I like when they don't make characters know everything, it's bad enough when Stark does it. MCU T'Challa is more of a genius scientist than Nolan's Batman. Black Panther can lead, he's leading the Avengers right now. He just doesn't get the top spot on teams as much as he should.
    It's about the comics, beause Night Thrasher hasn't appeared in any movies. I'm talking about Night Thraser.

  5. #3005
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Now we are in a discussion about whether or not the mind that created a device capable of sustaining the destruction of all of the multiverse......... Being mentally compared to night thrasher in the movie verse (the most influential verse) is a good thing.

    We clearly like this character for different reasons

    I hope Black Panther 2 does for Tchalla what Captain America 2 did for Steve Rogers.
    honestly, Priest, Hudlin, liss, and McDuffie all showed T'Challas genius in ways that wasn't him sitting in a lab, it's was either by using his tech he carries in orthodox and unorthodox ways that showed his genius, his prep or the ability to create hyper tech using the stuff around him (like Ewing's ultimates) this whole needing to be in a lab scientist at heart thing is Coates. Other writer's have clearly shown him as a warrior nat heart who's also a super genius. That's what I want. Let Shuri tinker in the lab, I want to see his super genius in action like priest would show.

  6. #3006
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    My argument is (and will always be) how important is T'Challa's inventiveness in the comics. How many conflicts has T'Challa solved because he invented something on the spot or with prep? Almost every major feat T'Challa has in the comics comes from outsmarting or outfighting someone. If you don't believe me, check out MindofShadow's blog.

    Name me one invention of T'Challa's that actually matters in the Marvel Universe. You can't say Vibranium, because it's an element and it was laid at his feet. You can't say Wakandan technology because depending on which history you accept, T'Challa made Wakanda advanced by selling Vibranium or Wakanda was advanced before he was born. You can't say it's his suit, because even when Priest gave it to him he never stated it was his invention. Even if it is, it's hardly been considered a valuable asset to the MU the same way an Iron Man suit is. Every other invention T'Challa has to his name has been completely ignored. The closest he ever came to this was Shadow Physics, but from the get go that was a poorly defined fictional science. There's not one clear definition on whatever "quantum physics mixed with alchemy" even means or what it does. It's the very definition of a plot device. And like every other thing, it's been ignored because it never stuck.

    No matter how much writers try to write T'Challa in this way, the simple and utter truth is that T'Challa is not a scientist. Never was, and never will be. Is he intelligent? Yes, but he's not a scientist. Tony Stark is a scientist. Hank Pym is a scientist. Reed Richards is a scientist. Can T'Challa understand a conversation between them and contribute to it? Yes, and that's why he learned Western science in the first place (and mind you, MCU T'Challa has actually been shown to understand technology).

    In the same way I can read Priest's run when he had a team of scientists monitor and deplete Mephisto's energy instead of doing it himself to prove his intelligence, and not get mad about it or say he was chumped...is the same way I can watch the movie where Shuri invents the tech he uses.
    T'Challa is a jack of all trades master of none type. He can tinker in a lab and create things like Reed, turn around and create destructive weapons like Tony, then turn back around and create a cure for some virus like a scientist. It's just thats not his main focus. Ironman and Reed rely heavily on their genius side in terms of creating tech to save the day. Tchalla uses tech as a way to even the playing field and put his opponents on positions where he can out fight them or put them at such a disadvantage that they have no choice but to surrender.

    Again for the movie I'm honestly fine with a scene where he simply hands Shuri detailed schematics for improving the habit, and she comments on how detailed and complex the updates are. Establishing that he understands the logistics but simply doesn't have the time to do it himself. Followed by later in the movie him pulling so e super genius on the fly tech feat. He has always been shown doing on the fly tech feats

  7. #3007
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    My argument is (and will always be) how important is T'Challa's inventiveness in the comics. How many conflicts has T'Challa solved because he invented something on the spot or with prep? Almost every major feat T'Challa has in the comics comes from outsmarting or outfighting someone. If you don't believe me, check out MindofShadow's blog.

    Name me one invention of T'Challa's that actually matters in the Marvel Universe. You can't say Vibranium, because it's an element and it was laid at his feet. You can't say Wakandan technology because depending on which history you accept, T'Challa made Wakanda advanced by selling Vibranium or Wakanda was advanced before he was born. You can't say it's his suit, because even when Priest gave it to him he never stated it was his invention. Even if it is, it's hardly been considered a valuable asset to the MU the same way an Iron Man suit is. Every other invention T'Challa has to his name has been completely ignored. The closest he ever came to this was Shadow Physics, but from the get go that was a poorly defined fictional science. There's not one clear definition on whatever "quantum physics mixed with alchemy" even means or what it does. It's the very definition of a plot device. And like every other thing, it's been ignored because it never stuck.

    No matter how much writers try to write T'Challa in this way, the simple and utter truth is that T'Challa is not a scientist. Never was, and never will be. Is he intelligent? Yes, but he's not a scientist. Tony Stark is a scientist. Hank Pym is a scientist. Reed Richards is a scientist. Can T'Challa understand a conversation between them and contribute to it? Yes, and that's why he learned Western science in the first place (and mind you, MCU T'Challa has actually been shown to understand technology).

    In the same way I can read Priest's run when he had a team of scientists monitor and deplete Mephisto's energy instead of doing it himself to prove his intelligence, and not get mad about it or say he was chumped...is the same way I can watch the movie where Shuri invents the tech he uses.
    You really can't say he's NOT scientist. It's just that it's not his defining trait.

    Guys like Reed and Pym have only one defining trait, so it stands out. For a guy like T'Challa, he's got nearly half a dozen... so the scientist aspect, while there, isn't moved to the forefront. When you're basically good at everything, that can happen.

    I'd say the same thing for Batman. He's a scientist, but that can get lost in him being one of the best at a whole bunch of other stuff.

  8. #3008
    BANNED JasmineW's Avatar
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    Been reading some arcs of the Black Panther recently and throughly enjoying it!
    Which would everyone recommend out of buying his Epic 1 or 2 if I can only get one?

  9. #3009
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasmineW View Post
    Been reading some arcs of the Black Panther recently and throughly enjoying it!
    Which would everyone recommend out of buying his Epic 1 or 2 if I can only get one?
    Neither. Those look to be the McGregor and Kirby stories. Only thing worth checking out in those is Panthers Rage.

  10. #3010
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasmineW View Post
    Been reading some arcs of the Black Panther recently and throughly enjoying it!
    Which would everyone recommend out of buying his Epic 1 or 2 if I can only get one?
    If I had to pick one, I'd say Epic 1. It's got McGregors stuff, and aside from maybe Priest I'd say McGregor is probably the most influencial BP writer.

  11. #3011
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    It's like watching the Cap Vs Baltroc fight and then deciding it's a poor showing for Cap because Baltroc (an un-enhanced, no-name villain) knocks him off his feet three times, actually goes toe to toe with him, Cap can't get him to stay down despite two attempts, and then fails to stop him from escaping. We all love the TWS fights, fight? And Cap is a beast in them, right?

    This is what nitpicking is like, and a lot of us do it here. Gets on my nerves.
    Feel like I am going crazy sometimes man.

    We can use tony as an example too. How many main bosses did he beat by himself? Zero... the answer is zero.

    1. couldn't beat Iron Monger, had Pepper blow the roof to kill him after Tony was toast.

    2. couldn't beat whiplash version 2, needed Rhodey's help to have chance.

    3. Extremis pepper magically shows up after Stark couldn't finish off Killian.


    I guess Tony sucks too right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Did you also miss this entire scene?



    You know... the one where:
    1. He admits to have been deceived,
    2. Realises his emotions have been in the wrong place,
    3. And then decides to let go of said emotions and be a better man?


    Did you miss all of that?

    Wanting T'Challa to go back to being pissed off at everyone is character regression. It's regressing the entire thing you just called a story arc. That's why it's called anarc.

    Can't believe we still have to argue this.
    shits wild

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    My argument is (and will always be) how important is T'Challa's inventiveness in the comics. How many conflicts has T'Challa solved because he invented something on the spot or with prep? Almost every major feat T'Challa has in the comics comes from outsmarting or outfighting someone. If you don't believe me, check out MindofShadow's blog.

    Name me one invention of T'Challa's that actually matters in the Marvel Universe. You can't say Vibranium, because it's an element and it was laid at his feet. You can't say Wakandan technology because depending on which history you accept, T'Challa made Wakanda advanced by selling Vibranium or Wakanda was advanced before he was born. You can't say it's his suit, because even when Priest gave it to him he never stated it was his invention. Even if it is, it's hardly been considered a valuable asset to the MU the same way an Iron Man suit is. Every other invention T'Challa has to his name has been completely ignored. The closest he ever came to this was Shadow Physics, but from the get go that was a poorly defined fictional science. There's not one clear definition on whatever "quantum physics mixed with alchemy" even means or what it does. It's the very definition of a plot device. And like every other thing, it's been ignored because it never stuck.

    No matter how much writers try to write T'Challa in this way, the simple and utter truth is that T'Challa is not a scientist. Never was, and never will be. Is he intelligent? Yes, but he's not a scientist. Tony Stark is a scientist. Hank Pym is a scientist. Reed Richards is a scientist. Can T'Challa understand a conversation between them and contribute to it? Yes, and that's why he learned Western science in the first place (and mind you, MCU T'Challa has actually been shown to understand technology).

    In the same way I can read Priest's run when he had a team of scientists monitor and deplete Mephisto's energy instead of doing it himself to prove his intelligence, and not get mad about it or say he was chumped...is the same way I can watch the movie where Shuri invents the tech he uses.
    He. Is. Not. A. Scientist.

    Is he a polymath genius? Absolutely.

    But he is not a scientist.

    Hickman wanted T'challa to be Reeds best black friend so he put them together and made them do tech shit together. Then Coates double down on it. But that isn't T'challa.

    T'challa's genius brain is long term prep strategy along with in the moment think on his feet strategic genius.

    T'challa is a warrior king that happens to be a genius. Not a scientist that happens to good at fighting too.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  12. #3012
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Straight black men haven't disappeared from media just because black gay men are slightly more prominent.
    I was very intentional to not say disappeared for a reason.

  13. #3013
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I was very intentional to not say disappeared for a reason.
    Just saying, if you want to talk about how poorly black men are treated in media there are far better examples to point out than gay black men having more of a prominence.

  14. #3014
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Civil War is easily one of my favorite movies, and this is one reason why. I keep getting annoyed by people who insist that T'Challa should have killed Zemo, despite how it would have gone against the basics of the movie itself
    I agree with you. T'Challa watches and sees how revenge can destroy and change a friendship with the Avengers. He does not want it to consume him. But that is the man that killed his father and his king? Maybe he deserved to die? Those are grey areas that make that decision very interesting.

  15. #3015
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    I agree with you. T'Challa watches and sees how revenge can destroy and change a friendship with the Avengers. He does not want it to consume him. But that is the man that killed his father and his king? Maybe he deserved to die? Those are grey areas that make that decision very interesting.
    Civil War was a text book example of why a lot of heroes don't kill. T'Challa spent the entire movie trying to kill Bucky, and Bucky ended up being completely innocent of his fathers death. Not saying the same can necessarily be applied to Zemo, but the moral of the story being the ability to act as judge, jury and executioner should not be taken lightly.

    One has to wonder if he would have been less merciful towards Klaw and Killmonger if Civil War didn't happen the way it did.

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