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  1. #3181
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The issue being if it's someone elses book, they might not be 100% keen on that.

    If marvel wanted to push Taskmaster because he's in the Black Widow movie, and he showed up in the BP book and beat T'CHalla without T'Challa getting the win back, you can't tell me this board wouldn't blow up. The good guys should beat he bad guys at the end of their own stories. THe bad guy can win at the beginning and middle (and should more often quite frankly), but the good guys should triumph in the end.

    There are of course exceptions... but 99% of the time, that's how it works and how it should work.
    ...Doomwar...!!?!?!Ahem.

  2. #3182
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    ...Doomwar...!!?!?!Ahem.
    And in Doom War, the heroes stop Doom in the end. If something like that happens in other books, it's fine. If they do something like that with Killmonger where he shows up in someone elses book, beats the hero early on, but the hero is able to stop him in the end that's probably not something anyone will object to (other than the issue of T'Challa probably being the first person to really beat him rather than some other hero in some other book).

    I think it's just a potential issue if the villain doesn't get stopped by the hero in the end.

  3. #3183
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Killmonger won't rise in value until he's given good stories and feats within his home franchise. This is the same argument we've been having with Storm fans lol. It's nice to get good showings in other characters' books but at the end of the day it doesn't mean a thing if you're not being elevated by your own office. Killmonger hasn't been written well since he died in Hudlin's run, it makes no sense from Marvel's perspective to center a line-wide event around him whooping their most popular heroes when he hasn't been shown decently for over a decade.

    The Thor books just tried that foolishness with that C-list elf and the sales were atrocious for an event of that size. What Killmonger needs is a long, complex arc(s) that involves him taking over a nation or institution while digging into his psychology and actually characterizing him. In the process they gotta give him competent underlings and let him kill other villains to set up a new status quo. Make him a character worth using in another book before expecting him to rough up Captain America (in his own book no less).

    It'd probably be easier to import a hero into the Black Panther book for an arc and have them lose a fight to KM or establish some sort of rivalry that can be explored in their own title down the line. Another way to push Killmonger would be to just give him a mini like they did with that origin story. Have it take place in the modern day and show the guy and his allies doing high level mercenary work that shows why he's able to keep up with T'Challa. There are ways to elevate Erik without doing events or immediately throwing him in other franchises.
    Yeah, that's fair.

    The most obvious and important place to really show how dangerous Killmonger can and should be is in the Black Panther book. He's a BP rogue... if he can't do it there, he won't be able to do it anywhere.

    Granted BP books have done a very good job of propping up Killmonger in the BP books... but he probably needs a BIG epic story. The Killmonger equivalent of the Killing Joke or whatever. Generally speaking I hate the idea of killing off supporting cast for no reason... but I almost think something like that might be necessarily to really level up Killmonger a bit and make this a bit more personal for T'Challa.

    I think that's what they should have done with Klaw. He's a VERY powerful character... boost him up, have him absolutely wreck T'CHalla, Wakanda and his supporting cast before he's finally defeated. That'll show people that he's not a joke. Coates did an okay showing with Klaw... he wasn't KOed in 4 panels, so it's the best showing he's had in years. But I would have liked to see a bit more from him. Klaw can be a beast if written as one.
    Last edited by XPac; 04-29-2020 at 11:07 AM.

  4. #3184
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, that's fair.

    The most obvious and important place to really show how dangerous Killmonger can and should be is in the Black Panther book. He's a BP rogue... if he can't do it there, he won't be able to do it anywhere.

    Granted BP books have done a very good job of propping up Killmonger in the BP books... but he probably needs a BIG epic story. The Killmonger equivalent of the Killing Joke or whatever. Generally speaking I hate the idea of killing off supporting cast for no reason... but I almost think something like that might be necessarily to really level up Killmonger a bit and make this a bit more personal for T'Challa.

    I think that's what they should have done with Klaw. He's a VERY powerful character... boost him up, have him absolutely wreck T'CHalla, Wakanda and his supporting cast before he's finally defeated. That'll show people that he's not a joke. Coates did an okay showing with Klaw... he wasn't KOed in 4 panels, so it's the best showing he's had in years. But I would have liked to see a bit more from him. Klaw can be a beast if written as one.
    Yeah both Klaw and Killmonger need big storylines to make them more popular. Like Loki got some major storylines and even Surtur to a degree. THe MCU made Killmonger and Klaw being used more in adaptions like Klaw had appeared in previous adaptions before but Killmonger hasn't until the mcu and since then Killmonger had been seen in more adaptions. Like Killmonger and Klaw were in video games.
    Last edited by Toxin45; 04-29-2020 at 11:14 AM.

  5. #3185
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxin45 View Post
    Yeah both Klaw and Killmonger need big storylines to make them more popular.
    Yeah, I think in hindsight making BP's first event a Doom story was a mistake. I get why they did ... Doom and T'CHalla make for a very interesting match up. Both very powerful and very intelligent kings.

    But the BP rogues probably needed the boost. Klaw or Killmonger getting a big story might have done more long term good for the BP mythos. Though Klaw did get that Klaws of the Panther mini back in the day... unfortunately I couldn't even bring myself to touch it because of the art.

  6. #3186
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think in hindsight making BP's first event a Doom story was a mistake. I get why they did ... Doom and T'CHalla make for a very interesting match up. Both very powerful and very intelligent kings.

    But the BP rogues probably needed the boost. Klaw or Killmonger getting a big story might have done more long term good for the BP mythos. Though Klaw did get that Klaws of the Panther mini back in the day... unfortunately I couldn't even bring myself to touch it because of the art.
    like Klaw and Killmonger are both the arch-enimies of Black Panther they deserve more love.

  7. #3187
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Black Panther #22 13,894

    BP: AoW #7 9,103

  8. #3188
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Black Panther #22 13,894

    BP: AoW #7 9,103
    Don't worry. Movie version of Shuri is about to get a comic....

  9. #3189
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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  10. #3190
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Killmonger won't rise in value until he's given good stories and feats within his home franchise. This is the same argument we've been having with Storm fans lol. It's nice to get good showings in other characters' books but at the end of the day it doesn't mean a thing if you're not being elevated by your own office. Killmonger hasn't been written well since he died in Hudlin's run, it makes no sense from Marvel's perspective to center a line-wide event around him whooping their most popular heroes when he hasn't been shown decently for over a decade.

    The Thor books just tried that foolishness with that C-list elf and the sales were atrocious for an event of that size. What Killmonger needs is a long, complex arc(s) that involves him taking over a nation or institution while digging into his psychology and actually characterizing him. In the process they gotta give him competent underlings and let him kill other villains to set up a new status quo. Make him a character worth using in another book before expecting him to rough up Captain America (in his own book no less).

    It'd probably be easier to import a hero into the Black Panther book for an arc and have them lose a fight to KM or establish some sort of rivalry that can be explored in their own title down the line. Another way to push Killmonger would be to just give him a mini like they did with that origin story. Have it take place in the modern day and show the guy and his allies doing high level mercenary work that shows why he's able to keep up with T'Challa. There are ways to elevate Erik without doing events or immediately throwing him in other franchises.
    To be clear i wasn't simply stating that he needs to just show up in other heroes books, but rather have him appearing in BP, mainly and other books (a couple, doesn't need oversaturation) and kick something off with him. Hell if marvel reigned Coates in and had some oversight this intergalactic Wakanda could of been the perfect set-up for exactly what i am talking about to elevate killmonger. Done away with the Spiderman and x men crap and just powered him up using the rich mythos he hails from and establish this empire as a super threat that it should be, and a fight earth can't hope to win without the help of T'Challa. Basically, what needs to happen to Erik is whst Priest did to deathstroke

  11. #3191
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think in hindsight making BP's first event a Doom story was a mistake. I get why they did ... Doom and T'CHalla make for a very interesting match up. Both very powerful and very intelligent kings.

    But the BP rogues probably needed the boost. Klaw or Killmonger getting a big story might have done more long term good for the BP mythos. Though Klaw did get that Klaws of the Panther mini back in the day... unfortunately I couldn't even bring myself to touch it because of the art.
    No, it was a mistake on Marvel for not letting Hudlin finish his story and giving it to Mayberry. Hudlins version would of ended with the most Savage beating deservedly handed by T'Challa and then segued into a BP centric event. World war Wakanda.

  12. #3192
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Read a snippet, it's loading slow so i will check later.. seems like they are trying to merge the MCU version with the comics.. in the MCU it makes sense to give Shuri a role aka Q while T'Challa would ve able to showcase his genius outside the lab. But this whole deal trying to integrate that elsewhere needs to be met with care. Just like the MCU, don't take qualities away to give to another character and not highlight them on T'Challa

  13. #3193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Read a snippet, it's loading slow so i will check later.. seems like they are trying to merge the MCU version with the comics.. in the MCU it makes sense to give Shuri a role aka Q while T'Challa would ve able to showcase his genius outside the lab. But this whole deal trying to integrate that elsewhere needs to be met with care. Just like the MCU, don't take qualities away to give to another character and not highlight them on T'Challa
    That is feminism and pandering for you. Can't show black males being intelligent or you offered certain folks.

  14. #3194
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    No, it was a mistake on Marvel for not letting Hudlin finish his story and giving it to Mayberry. Hudlins version would of ended with the most Savage beating deservedly handed by T'Challa and then segued into a BP centric event. World war Wakanda.
    Hudlin talked about his plans? Do you have a link or anything, I would love to know more.

  15. #3195
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is feminism and pandering for you. Can't show black males being intelligent or you offered certain folks.
    At the risk of pissing off people here, black men do indeed get a bad rap from society and media, but that's no reason to be dumping on attempts at uplifting black girls and women. Granted, those attempts shouldn't also come at the expense of black boys and men, though I frankly blame that on certain (kinds of) people trying to divide black people and set them against each other so they can't present a unified front against the many faces and facets of racism in our society. Dismissing that as just "pandering to feminists" or whatever plays into the division those people want to create in the black community, and make no mistake --- they want us divided. Black men against black women, black women against black men . . . that won't be solved by downing on black female achievement or denigrating black male excellence, but making room for black women and men to be excellent and achieve together, to complement each other's strengths and compensate for each other's weaknesses. That is what we should be striving toward as a community.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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