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  1. #8821
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Ewing had Wolverine chastise She-Hulk about mutant oppression and the need for Krakoa. In her own book. He's almost definitely a bigger X-fan than he is a BP fan so I'm fully expecting the shit characterization and contrived writing that we've gotten from Vita Ayala and writers like them. If we don't, then great but I'm over DOX increasing the X-office's use of Black Panther and his supporting characters. It always ends up hurting the brand and making T'Challa look bad. But we'll see.
    I pretty much don't care what they do. It's like a pre-requisite for the X-books to dump on BP/Wakanda. They dump on just about everyone.

    If Ewing does it, I won't be mad, it's just par for the course. Only thing I want is for the last of Coates run to be released and for a new ongoing next year.

  2. #8822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I pretty much don't care what they do. It's like a pre-requisite for the X-books to dump on BP/Wakanda. They dump on just about everyone.

    If Ewing does it, I won't be mad, it's just par for the course. Only thing I want is for the last of Coates run to be released and for a new ongoing next year.
    I get the general sentiment of ignoring bad portrayals in the X-books but there are branding concerns if certain narratives are pushed when T'Challa/his mythos appears outside his solo. Look at Tony Stark, in his solos he's a pretty virtuous guy even if he has a big ego, but all too often when he makes guest appearances his arrogance and assholery are turned up x10 to make whoever he's put with look better. That hurts his marketability and turns off some people to reading his books.

    T'Challa is a straight black male so mischaracterization and bad writing are more likely to stick and permanently burn bridges for him than someone like Tony or even Carol. So I think pushing any kind of narrative that casts his supporting cast/citizens as mutant haters or turns him into an enemy of a more popular franchise needs to be avoided. Trying to force a rivalry/relationship he has no chance at being dominant in increases fan animosity towards the franchise and increases the chances these narratives get adapted in more important mediums.

  3. #8823
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That was my basic idea for the Princess Shuri & the PRIDE idea I floated a while back. It'd be an ensemble but with her as the lead, going on high-octane sci-fi adventures with other young Wakandans like Vibraxas, Queen Divine Justice, and Muti. Something with a tone similar to Batgirl, aiming for that YA audience. Shuri's a great character for that type of direction and I think she'd succeed with someone like you or Eve Ewing at the helm.



    It's not like a huge thing for me, but it'd be nice if she had a codename or tagline that was more than just princess (though I'd like it under certain circumstances). I don't think it's saying "she's not good enough" but that she's carved out her own niche and going forward with her own brand of heroism. She'd still be called Shuri in regular conversation but I don't think having a formal superhero name hurts or confuses the audience, it only signals her independence. Though I agree since she'll likely always be in that amorphous late teens-early 20s age range I guess a superhero ID isn't absolutely necessary.
    I agree I donít think she necessarily needs a code name I think he will be better served long-term to have some type of code name..

  4. #8824
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I get the general sentiment of ignoring bad portrayals in the X-books but there are branding concerns if certain narratives are pushed when T'Challa/his mythos appears outside his solo. Look at Tony Stark, in his solos he's a pretty virtuous guy even if he has a big ego, but all too often when he makes guest appearances his arrogance and assholery are turned up x10 to make whoever he's put with look better. That hurts his marketability and turns off some people to reading his books.

    T'Challa is a straight black male so mischaracterization and bad writing are more likely to stick and permanently burn bridges for him than someone like Tony or even Carol. So I think pushing any kind of narrative that casts his supporting cast/citizens as mutant haters or turns him into an enemy of a more popular franchise needs to be avoided. Trying to force a rivalry/relationship he has no chance at being dominant in increases fan animosity towards the franchise and increases the chances these narratives get adapted in more important mediums.
    If BP has a solo then it really shouldn't matter what they do in an X-book because BP's writer will be the one to drive the narrative. The X-books are notorious for giving a holier-than-thou attitude when mutants are dealing with other superhuman heroes. They do it with Cap, Iron Man, BP and just about anybody else they can use to further their victimhood agenda. Even when BP is an ally to mutants, they go back to playing their victim cards. When was the last time you saw gentle? I haven't seen him in BP or any X-book in some time. Now Manifest is on an X-team, how long do you think before they have him spout some dribble about BP or his time in Wakanda? Broo was on Agents Wakanda but that won't matter in the grand scheme of the agenda.

    So to me, it's just the usual nonsense that they X-books will put out. Only X-book I follow is Marauders for Bishop but he's slowly fading into the background.

  5. #8825
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Though I disagree that there was a substantial difference in personality between the two, which is another issue with the Shuri character. By the time Hickman got ahold of her she was basically T'Challa-lite, but more bloodthirsty and less informed lol. Most writers probably would've probably preferred to use her brother so more often than not they gave her the same stoic personality that T'Challa was known for, but with a hint of hotheadedness to represent her youth. Her solo series was a different story but in outside appearances she was very much just "female T'Challa but not as good".

    Her only real distinguishing feature was her Wakanda First mentality which pretty much means nothing now that she's back in a supporting role, where damn near everyone around T'Challa has the same perspective. I'd actually argue that aspect of her character unnecessarily holds her back. Coates tends to give every Wakandan the same voice but Shuri and T'Challa are virtually the same character in his run, Shuri just uses magic and is more competent lol. Thankfully, the MCU is forcing a distinction to be made slowly but surely.
    I always thought of Shuri as being more impetuous. T'Challa was generally very calculating and patient. But, since the Griot thing, she seems much wiser and all-knowing, which does make her closer to T'Challa but basically T'Challa with the wisdom of Ramonda.
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  6. #8826
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/26/2...-abigail-brand

    Looks like the X-Office is gonna have some more fun with the Black Panther mythos lol. The upcoming cosmic X-book SWORD will have a Wakandan ambassador as part of its supporting cast.
    Until the book comes out Iím assuming it just this character appearing in the background around again..

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/A%27di_(Earth-616)

  7. #8827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    If BP has a solo then it really shouldn't matter what they do in an X-book because BP's writer will be the one to drive the narrative. The X-books are notorious for giving a holier-than-thou attitude when mutants are dealing with other superhuman heroes. They do it with Cap, Iron Man, BP and just about anybody else they can use to further their victimhood agenda. Even when BP is an ally to mutants, they go back to playing their victim cards. When was the last time you saw gentle? I haven't seen him in BP or any X-book in some time. Now Manifest is on an X-team, how long do you think before they have him spout some dribble about BP or his time in Wakanda? Broo was on Agents Wakanda but that won't matter in the grand scheme of the agenda.
    Here is the thing-books like X-Men reach FAR more folks than Black Panther.

    Remember X-Men like Batman, Superman & Spider-Man get tons of books ordered. They also leave large piles of UNSOLD books. Books that sniff discount bins and way to many clearance sales. These books end up in more folks hands because of those lower prices.

    Black Panther does not do that or does it as much. To the normal comic book fan who is not reading Black Panther but gets a hold of those X-books see that Panther chumping.

    Tony Stark survives because his book is on that level as Batman and X-Men. He can chumped in Avengers and folks still get access to his book.

    So the X-Office needs to be told to stop that nonsense. Stop it with Panther, Storm and black in general. Because it's making Marvel's job harder to sell a guy that one of your top franchises does not respect.

  8. #8828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    If BP has a solo then it really shouldn't matter what they do in an X-book because BP's writer will be the one to drive the narrative. The X-books are notorious for giving a holier-than-thou attitude when mutants are dealing with other superhuman heroes. They do it with Cap, Iron Man, BP and just about anybody else they can use to further their victimhood agenda. Even when BP is an ally to mutants, they go back to playing their victim cards. When was the last time you saw gentle? I haven't seen him in BP or any X-book in some time. Now Manifest is on an X-team, how long do you think before they have him spout some dribble about BP or his time in Wakanda? Broo was on Agents Wakanda but that won't matter in the grand scheme of the agenda.

    So to me, it's just the usual nonsense that they X-books will put out. Only X-book I follow is Marauders for Bishop but he's slowly fading into the background.
    The thing is pretty much what skyvolt said. The X-books (as far as the comics are concerned at least) has a much wider audience than the Black Panther solo. Imagine if in the pages of Hickman's X-Men he doubled down on that BS retconning of Wakanda's founding from Vita Ayala. Or he decides to reveal T'Challa's been secretly funding ORCHIS. It doesn't matter how much worldbuilding and acts of heroism that T'Challa does in his own book, that's burning bridges/spreading misinformation to a larger number of potential fans who've seen his mythos poorly represented.

    T'Challa isn't like Iron Man or Cap, who've become pop cultural icons for years due to the MCU and have a revitalized base of support. He's also not a white male so he doesn't get the defense of "He was written out of character!" He's a black character that only recently got brought taken out of obscurity who to even casual fans is a relative unknown. He can't afford having his franchise painted as anti-mutant or somehow in opposition to one of Marvel's biggest franchises.

    He's not beefing with a C-lister like Namor, but an IP with the kind of legacy and fanbase that makes such a rivalry a one-sided stomp every single time. Wakanda-Krakoa tension/warfare is the last thing the franchise needs right now but that's what'll dominate the way the IP is perceived in the comics, whether or not his solo is great. So yea, I don't want Manifold on his soapbox talking about how "the Wakandans were disgusted to look at me" or Hickman pulling out a datapage of how much money T'Challa's been funneling to ORCHIS. That type of shit messes with the branding. It already does mess with the branding, the two most requested characters for BP2 are damn mutants lol.

  9. #8829
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Here is the thing-books like X-Men reach FAR more folks than Black Panther.

    Remember X-Men like Batman, Superman & Spider-Man get tons of books ordered. They also leave large piles of UNSOLD books. Books that sniff discount bins and way to many clearance sales. These books end up in more folks hands because of those lower prices.

    Black Panther does not do that or does it as much. To the normal comic book fan who is not reading Black Panther but gets a hold of those X-books see that Panther chumping.

    Tony Stark survives because his book is on that level as Batman and X-Men. He can chumped in Avengers and folks still get access to his book.

    So the X-Office needs to be told to stop that nonsense. Stop it with Panther, Storm and black in general. Because it's making Marvel's job harder to sell a guy that one of your top franchises does not respect.
    Yup, do people really think that if this rumored (and increasingly likely) war with Krakoa happens, T'Challa won't get the short end of the stick, especially if it's written by a hack like Vita Ayala, with his terrible ex-wife at the center? More people will read those issues than who read the entire Coates run and whatever retcons, mischaracterizations, and Ls that happen against T'Challa are going to be taken as gospel by the majority of fans. An IP still in its growing phases shouldn't have to deal with that baggage, it kills interest in T'Challa as a character when done poorly.

  10. #8830
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Here is the thing-books like X-Men reach FAR more folks than Black Panther.

    Remember X-Men like Batman, Superman & Spider-Man get tons of books ordered. They also leave large piles of UNSOLD books. Books that sniff discount bins and way to many clearance sales. These books end up in more folks hands because of those lower prices.

    Black Panther does not do that or does it as much. To the normal comic book fan who is not reading Black Panther but gets a hold of those X-books see that Panther chumping.

    Tony Stark survives because his book is on that level as Batman and X-Men. He can chumped in Avengers and folks still get access to his book.

    So the X-Office needs to be told to stop that nonsense. Stop it with Panther, Storm and black in general. Because it's making Marvel's job harder to sell a guy that one of your top franchises does not respect.
    X-Books have been screwing over other heroes for decades. Anyone who reads X-Men for a perspective on other heroes is already biased. People have claimed that BP was a mary sue/gary stu without ever reading his book.

    If they have any genuine interest about BP then they would read about BP in his own book and learn for themselves

  11. #8831
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The thing is pretty much what skyvolt said. The X-books (as far as the comics are concerned at least) has a much wider audience than the Black Panther solo. Imagine if in the pages of Hickman's X-Men he doubled down on that BS retconning of Wakanda's founding from Vita Ayala. Or he decides to reveal T'Challa's been secretly funding ORCHIS. It doesn't matter how much worldbuilding and acts of heroism that T'Challa does in his own book, that's burning bridges/spreading misinformation to a larger number of potential fans who've seen his mythos poorly represented.

    T'Challa isn't like Iron Man or Cap, who've become pop cultural icons for years due to the MCU and have a revitalized base of support. He's also not a white male so he doesn't get the defense of "He was written out of character!" He's a black character that only recently got brought taken out of obscurity who to even casual fans is a relative unknown. He can't afford having his franchise painted as anti-mutant or somehow in opposition to one of Marvel's biggest franchises.

    He's not beefing with a C-lister like Namor, but an IP with the kind of legacy and fanbase that makes such a rivalry a one-sided stomp every single time. Wakanda-Krakoa tension/warfare is the last thing the franchise needs right now but that's what'll dominate the way the IP is perceived in the comics, whether or not his solo is great. So yea, I don't want Manifold on his soapbox talking about how "the Wakandans were disgusted to look at me" or Hickman pulling out a datapage of how much money T'Challa's been funneling to ORCHIS. That type of shit messes with the branding. It already does mess with the branding, the two most requested characters for BP2 are damn mutants lol.
    What's hurting BP far greater than anything an X-book can do is what's happening in his own solo or lack thereof.

    BP survived AvX and got a movie, a bad ass run in the animated Avengers: BP's Quest, leads the Avengers and had a decent spin-off in Agents of Wakanda. Dudes got toy's out the wazoo(old school).

    BP has a solo that has made him look ineffectual and idiotic, propped up other characters, led to disastrous spin-offs and can't even get the last two issues of a failing series printed to put it out of it's misery.

    So, who has done more to hurt BP and tarnish the brand?

  12. #8832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    What's hurting BP far greater than anything an X-book can do is what's happening in his own solo or lack thereof.

    BP survived AvX and got a movie, a bad ass run in the animated Avengers: BP's Quest, leads the Avengers and had a decent spin-off in Agents of Wakanda. Dudes got toy's out the wazoo(old school).

    BP has a solo that has made him look ineffectual and idiotic, propped up other characters, led to disastrous spin-offs and can't even get the last two issues of a failing series printed to put it out of it's misery.

    So, who has done more to hurt BP and tarnish the brand?
    Wow. They really need to wrap up what Coates has done, I’m ready to see someone else takeover bad.

  13. #8833
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    I read an article today that said that a Wakandan ambassador will be part of the cast of Al Ewing's SWORD book.

    Given that much of the cast are mutants, am I the only one thinking Gentle?

  14. #8834
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    in my youth I once spent way too much time trying to figure out howmuch this ice block would weigh before giving up lol



    Btw I was looking at this feat here of TChalla kicking open vault doors. Probably one of his best for strength. I think this is Doomwar TChalla, but I canít remember if he was any different than current TChalla.


  15. #8835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Wow. They really need to wrap up what Coates has done, I’m ready to see someone else takeover bad.
    It's just mind-boggling that they just can't publish 2 issues.

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