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  1. #4336
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    You're right, it makes more sense for me to say it depends. When T'Challa fought Iron Man at the XCon headquarters he had the massive advantage of terrain. Tony was within pouncing range and was indoors so he couldn't get any distance, which made it easy for T'Challa's energy daggers to make contact and make him vulnerable to close quarters. But if we're talking tournament style combat where they start a few dozen feet apart with few vantage points to hide or jump from I'm not sure T'Challa's equipment lets him get close enough to finish him off. But assuming prep is allowed T'Challa wins. I'm not arguing that T'Challa isn't deadlier and more versatile than Tony any day of the week, but in a straight up fight at a certain distance I think Tony wins due to flight and heavier weaponry.

    Wolverine potentially wins due to his healing factor. They've fought a handful of times but in the most notable where T'Challa decisively won, it was when Wolverine was nerfed and couldn't soak damage the way he normally does. Under regular circumstances while I'm certain T'Challa would win the majority (especially with the force push in play) it comes down to whether he can do enough damage to kill him before Logan cuts deep enough into his armor. I'm not saying that Wolverine definitively wins every match, just that he has a fighting chance that someone like Elektra or Moonknight don't.

    Iron Fist is much the same. In his case, he's received some upgrades since they last fought (and even in their Priest-era fight he was technically amped up lol). His chi manipulation abilities should allow him to go toe to toe with T'Challa physically so in some matchups I could see him straight up knocking/choking T'Challa out under the right circumstances. Once again, I'm not saying every fight between these two should end up with Iron Fist winning, just that out of 10 fights I could see him winning a handful. But like with Wolverine I expect it to be hard fought and respectful of each combatant.

    I don't think the standard suit elevates T'Challa to Iron Man level nor should it. He's a martial artist first so he should be able to have convincing fights with other top tier martial artists under regular circumstances like Priest was able to demonstrate imo. So having that vulnerability to potentially lose to Iron Fist or Wolverine makes sense, otherwise he's truly being carried by tech and not skill.
    I'm not saying T'Challa wins without breaking a sweat. But in both Priest and Hudlins runs T'Challa beat Tony, and yeah of Tony can get distance it becomes alot harder for T'Challa to get I. Close abd won but I would say T'Challa takes the majority in these Match ups. With wolverine though one thing people seem to forget os that T'Challa has a way to get through and kill Logan. The energy daggers phase through adamantium. This was confirmed when T'Challa was able to hurt Ultron and damage his circuits.

    All of these fights would be close. Abd they wouldn't be easy fights. They shouldn't be as to not punk anyone. But T'Challa in these should take the majority of it's only slightly due to his methods of fighting. And I'm saying the the force push adds another massive hurdle for those three to get around, especially given the amount of uses for it mixed with hos already top tier martial arts prowess

  2. #4337
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJlock View Post
    Flight may not be such an advantage for Tony if T'Challa uses his wings.

    If Tchalla gets prep, and can get outside his standard gear, he wins. He's the best at that.

  3. #4338
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    The trick to defeating any adversary is NEVER to beat them at their own game, but instead to attack them in a way they cannot defend against, either because they don't know it is a weakness, or because they aren't expecting an attack from that direction.

    Since Priest, T'Challa has often been depicted as a master at that. I mean, he defeated Tony's newest armor with WINDOW CLEANER.

  4. #4339
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    You're right, it makes more sense for me to say it depends. When T'Challa fought Iron Man at the XCon headquarters he had the massive advantage of terrain. Tony was within pouncing range and was indoors so he couldn't get any distance, which made it easy for T'Challa's energy daggers to make contact and make him vulnerable to close quarters. But if we're talking tournament style combat where they start a few dozen feet apart with few vantage points to hide or jump from I'm not sure T'Challa's equipment lets him get close enough to finish him off. But assuming prep is allowed T'Challa wins. I'm not arguing that T'Challa isn't deadlier and more versatile than Tony any day of the week, but in a straight up fight at a certain distance I think Tony wins due to flight and heavier weaponry.

    Wolverine potentially wins due to his healing factor. They've fought a handful of times but in the most notable where T'Challa decisively won, it was when Wolverine was nerfed and couldn't soak damage the way he normally does. Under regular circumstances while I'm certain T'Challa would win the majority (especially with the force push in play) it comes down to whether he can do enough damage to kill him before Logan cuts deep enough into his armor. I'm not saying that Wolverine definitively wins every match, just that he has a fighting chance that someone like Elektra or Moonknight don't.

    Iron Fist is much the same. In his case, he's received some upgrades since they last fought (and even in their Priest-era fight he was technically amped up lol). His chi manipulation abilities should allow him to go toe to toe with T'Challa physically so in some matchups I could see him straight up knocking/choking T'Challa out under the right circumstances. Once again, I'm not saying every fight between these two should end up with Iron Fist winning, just that out of 10 fights I could see him winning a handful. But like with Wolverine I expect it to be hard fought and respectful of each combatant.

    I don't think the standard suit elevates T'Challa to Iron Man level nor should it. He's a martial artist first so he should be able to have convincing fights with other top tier martial artists under regular circumstances like Priest was able to demonstrate imo. So having that vulnerability to potentially lose to Iron Fist or Wolverine makes sense, otherwise he's truly being carried by tech and not skill.
    The tricky thing with Wolverine is his insane damage soak. I do believe BP is faster, stronger, more skilled, and has a lot more range. But it's also very possible that anything BP does to put him down, Logan can take and get back up again. He regularly has taken shots from the Hulk in fights and has gotten up for more. Conversely Logan can theoretically win a fight with 1-2 clean shots since bladed weaponry can get through BPs suit as Killmonger has shown. BP needs to do a lot more damage while Logan needs one lucky hit.

    Iron Fist fight comes down to whether it not the Iron Fist can overcome the kinetic absorbing abilities of the suit or not. His power has increased to the point where he once 1 hit KOed a helicarrier. So he has a punchers chance. But Tchalla has better defenses, better range, and far more versatility. I'd give BP 9 out of 10 unless the suit can't tank the IF. But even if the suit were to overload it would probably explode and take Danny out with it.

  5. #4340
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The tricky thing with Wolverine is his insane damage soak. I do believe BP is faster, stronger, more skilled, and has a lot more range. But it's also very possible that anything BP does to put him down, Logan can take and get back up again. He regularly has taken shots from the Hulk in fights and has gotten up for more. Conversely Logan can theoretically win a fight with 1-2 clean shots since bladed weaponry can get through BPs suit as Killmonger has shown. BP needs to do a lot more damage while Logan needs one lucky hit.

    Iron Fist fight comes down to whether it not the Iron Fist can overcome the kinetic absorbing abilities of the suit or not. His power has increased to the point where he once 1 hit KOed a helicarrier. So he has a punchers chance. But Tchalla has better defenses, better range, and far more versatility. I'd give BP 9 out of 10 unless the suit can't tank the IF. But even if the suit were to overload it would probably explode and take Danny out with it.
    two words. Energy Daggers. Wolverines entire defense is now useless.

  6. #4341
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    two words. Energy Daggers. Wolverines entire defense is now useless.
    His main defense in this case isn't actually his adamantium skeleton but rather his healing factor. I have no doubt that the energy daggers can cut Logan. Problem being he can potentially heal from the damage and just keep going. His damage soak is ridiculously high in some instances.

    That's the real question here. Tchalla with standard gear likely can't deliver a single decisive knock out blow. He just has to reign hit after hit after hit. But whether it's being kicked or punched or force pushed or hit with energy daggers, I'm not sure standard BP gear has anything which can keep him down. Not a guy who at times can take multiple Hulk shots and keep getting up.

    But because Tchallas defenses can be cut, Logan can theoretically win with 1-2 solid hits. So he has to hit Logan over and over while basically not getting hit at all. Possible but very hard, as Logan is no slouch.

  7. #4342
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    His main defense in this case isn't actually his adamantium skeleton but rather his healing factor. I have no doubt that the energy daggers can cut Logan. Problem being he can potentially heal from the damage and just keep going. His damage soak is ridiculously high in some instances.

    That's the real question here. Tchalla with standard gear likely can't deliver a single decisive knock out blow. He just has to reign hit after hit after hit. But whether it's being kicked or punched or force pushed or hit with energy daggers, I'm not sure standard BP gear has anything which can keep him down. Not a guy who at times can take multiple Hulk shots and keep getting up.

    But because Tchallas defenses can be cut, Logan can theoretically win with 1-2 solid hits. So he has to hit Logan over and over while basically not getting hit at all. Possible but very hard, as Logan is no slouch.
    Couldn't he just cut his head off? BP can probably make the blade precise enough that he can slice between the vertebrae.

  8. #4343
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Tchalla can beat multiple wolverines.

  9. #4344
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Couldn't he just cut his head off? BP can probably make the blade precise enough that he can slice between the vertebrae.
    I think being that precise would be kinda hard if you can't see his vertebrae. Plus he's obviously a moving target. But if you can pull it off, beheading should work.

  10. #4345
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    This sounds a lot more like a rumbles thread.

  11. #4346
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    His main defense in this case isn't actually his adamantium skeleton but rather his healing factor. I have no doubt that the energy daggers can cut Logan. Problem being he can potentially heal from the damage and just keep going. His damage soak is ridiculously high in some instances.

    That's the real question here. Tchalla with standard gear likely can't deliver a single decisive knock out blow. He just has to reign hit after hit after hit. But whether it's being kicked or punched or force pushed or hit with energy daggers, I'm not sure standard BP gear has anything which can keep him down. Not a guy who at times can take multiple Hulk shots and keep getting up.

    But because Tchallas defenses can be cut, Logan can theoretically win with 1-2 solid hits. So he has to hit Logan over and over while basically not getting hit at all. Possible but very hard, as Logan is no slouch.
    Thing is, energy Daggers phase through adamantium, the difference between T'Challa and the hulk is that hulk is trying to smash Logan. His healing factor isn't like Deadpool's where he is still alive with his head disconnected from his body. Plus he has to cut along the grains of the habit (assuming that the new habit even has that weakness still) so it's not as though Logan only had to hit him once or twice to win. Either way, it's been shown that T'Challa can and has tangled with Logan and won, plus he has an effective tool in his standard gear to out him down. It's not as stacked against T'Challa as your making it out to be.

    Hell Digi just posted how T'Challa would beat Logan above.

  12. #4347
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Thing is, energy Daggers phase through adamantium, the difference between T'Challa and the hulk is that hulk is trying to smash Logan. His healing factor isn't like Deadpool's where he is still alive with his head disconnected from his body. Plus he has to cut along the grains of the habit (assuming that the new habit even has that weakness still) so it's not as though Logan only had to hit him once or twice to win. Either way, it's been shown that T'Challa can and has tangled with Logan and won, plus he has an effective tool in his standard gear to out him down. It's not as stacked against T'Challa as your making it out to be.

    Hell Digi just posted how T'Challa would beat Logan above.
    The non physical energy dagger are intangible, which is why they can penetrate adamantium. Problem being an intangible knife isn't going to decapitate anyone. It was shock him, but its unlikely to actually put him down.

    But yes, Tchalla has successfully tangled with Logan. I do believe he's faster, stronger, more versatile, and more skilled. I'm just not sure anything in his standard toolset can actually keep Logan down.

  13. #4348
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    T'Challa can definitely win more than 5 fights against Wolverine in a best of 10 scenario. More focused fighting ability and the tech to match Wolvie's abilities. Logan can definitely beat him in the right ways but I say overall T'Challa has more of a potential to win.

    Iron Fist has got great power output, greater than anything T'Challa can put out on his own. And on paper he's arguably the better martial artist. His chi abilities can honestly put him above T'Challa when it comes to speed, probably durability as well, and on equal terms when it comes to senses. What he lacks is armour. He can take a beating but his gear offers little protection so a well placed strike from T'Challa could do the trick. I'm gonna say T'Challa wins 5 out of 10 times.

    Iron Man, I don't know. Tony in the right armour is short of being pretty god-like in what he's capable of, and I'm not talking about a Hulkbuster. T'Challa is outclassed in every level except maybe in fighting ability and combat strategy, which is debatable considering Tony's AIs and their ability to predict someone's moves or even simulate them. It'll be interesting, because I think T'Challa's tech and gear work like a scalpel as opposed to Tony's being like a sledgehammer. You're talking about a guy who's pretty much perfected combat armour versus a guy who has extremely advanced tech but in much smaller amounts and relies more on his innate abilities. Tough one to call. I'm gonna say 5 out of 10 to be on the safe side.

  14. #4349
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The non physical energy dagger are intangible, which is why they can penetrate adamantium. Problem being an intangible knife isn't going to decapitate anyone. It was shock him, but its unlikely to actually put him down.

    But yes, Tchalla has successfully tangled with Logan. I do believe he's faster, stronger, more versatile, and more skilled. I'm just not sure anything in his standard toolset can actually keep Logan down.
    You don't Think a powerful shocked directly to the bran or heart will put him down? That and ya know, anti metal claws? Daggers even if you wanted to use the argument they couldn't decapitate Logan it would still be more than enough to out him down for T'Challa to then use his claws to finish it

  15. #4350
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    T'Challa can definitely win more than 5 fights against Wolverine in a best of 10 scenario. More focused fighting ability and the tech to match Wolvie's abilities. Logan can definitely beat him in the right ways but I say overall T'Challa has more of a potential to win.

    Iron Fist has got great power output, greater than anything T'Challa can put out on his own. And on paper he's arguably the better martial artist. His chi abilities can honestly put him above T'Challa when it comes to speed, probably durability as well, and on equal terms when it comes to senses. What he lacks is armour. He can take a beating but his gear offers little protection so a well placed strike from T'Challa could do the trick. I'm gonna say T'Challa wins 5 out of 10 times.

    Iron Man, I don't know. Tony in the right armour is short of being pretty god-like in what he's capable of, and I'm not talking about a Hulkbuster. T'Challa is outclassed in every level except maybe in fighting ability and combat strategy, which is debatable considering Tony's AIs and their ability to predict someone's moves or even simulate them. It'll be interesting, because I think T'Challa's tech and gear work like a scalpel as opposed to Tony's being like a sledgehammer. You're talking about a guy who's pretty much perfected combat armour versus a guy who has extremely advanced tech but in much smaller amounts and relies more on his innate abilities. Tough one to call. I'm gonna say 5 out of 10 to be on the safe side.
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