Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

Yeah... I wouldn't take anything gentle had to say, given he is an x creation with the sole purpose of being created to isht on Wakanda

I still can't understand that if Wakanda was so isolationist and shunned outsiders, how did a Wakandan woman not only meet a Russian man, but managed to get herself pregnant in the first place.

But what is even more funny is that Krakoa has now followed the Wakandan model, i.e. isolationist, shuns outsiders.

[XPac]

Yeah... I wouldn't take anything gentle had to say, given he is an x creation with the sole purpose of being created to isht on Wakanda

Wakanda was established as xenophobic towards outsiders long before Gentle.

That said, it has also had queens who were outsiders. So really, it's only an issue if a writer wants it to be. And obviously there no more a hive mind in Wakanda than anywhere else, so you'll get good and bad apples in every batch, justifying some degree of varience.

[Besouro]

Wakanda was established as xenophobic towards outsiders long before Gentle.

That said, it has also had queens who were outsiders. So really, it's only an issue if a writer wants it to be. And obviously there no more a hive mind in Wakanda than anywhere else, so you'll get good and bad apples in every batch, justifying some degree of varience.

Fact remains.....judging by how the x-faction has treated BP n Wakanda.....Gentle was created PRIMARILY to **** on BP. Period!

The x-faction use BP lore as they see fit creating unnecessary random relics and characters that have nothing to do with and did not originate from core BP lore.

Easily infiltrating Wakanda, "saving" Wakanda, simp-igying n cuckery of Tchalla, creating random wakandan x-characters on a whim, accessing, acquiring or having Vibranium on a whim, etc , etc.

BP lore being disrespected, used and spat out REPEATEDLY!!!

BP has never and a STRONGLY suspect not allowed to create any faux mutants to diss on X-Men

BP has never and I STRONGLY suspect not allowed created faux lore to diss on X-Men mythos

BP hardly ever and I STRONGLY suspect not allowed to have stories or plots were BP "saves" the X-Men, easily infiltrate their HQ and so forth.

[Besouro]

He's writing a Batman mini series for Future State. It's rumor to star Luke Fox.

Will definitely check it out.

Maaaan, I miss the BATWING series, it was crazy awesome.

[Vanguard]

Class is still in session...

Amazing drawing. Id like to see more detail in the mask, and maybe change the forearms. I never like those horizontal lines everyone uses there. But like I said, amazing work.

[Besouro]

You can't be wrong or right about how you enjoy art. If you hated BPQ, you hated it and that's just as legit as every fan who loves it.

Other creators will say things like "i'm sorry you didn't like it." I have too in the past. That's politics.

Here's the truth.

I was not asked to recreate the MCU Black Panther because that film did not exist when we started making the show. We could not recreate the version of the Panther shown in the comics at the time because that was Coates' version and it was way too dark for a tween and teen audience. Also, I wouldn't have taken the job if that had been the job. No chance. We were also told not to worry about matching BPQ to previous seasons of Avengers Assemble, hence the re-title to go with the new focus.

So, if anyone's disappointed we didn't make versions of those other Panthers, that's on them. We never said we were trying to do that because we weren't trying to do that.

The Black Panther in BPQ was close to "my version" of the Panther in many ways but even that was nowhere near what I'd do were I driving the 616 book. There are a million things you can't do on the Disney Channel that you can easily do in a comic book. You have no idea the stories you just can't tell.

Right now, in this convo, we're all fans.

I step back a lot in the forums (i never used to step back at all) because my pro-writer status gives some of my comments more weight in the minds of some but, right now, we're all just in the audience and I'm no bigger or smaller than any other fan. I have my own ideas about what makes a good Black Panther and they have nothing to do with gadgets or BP and Wakanda kicking the s**t out of everybody they meet. That is not only boring to me, it's weak, writing-wise.

We disagree on what makes the Panther interesting.

So, if I ever get to drive the 616 Panther, it's probably a good bet that you will not like my version there, even if it's nothing like BPQ (and it wouldn't be like BPQ). When I work as a writer, we are not in a conversation. I'm not trying to "convince" you of anything or "prove myself" in any way. I'm telling a story. That's it. Either you like it or you don't. That is also it.

I come up with a story I like. I pitch that story to Company X. If they like it too, they hire me to write it. And then i write it. The way I want, according to my own tastes and the company's notes. If, at some point, the company wants me to, I dunno, make T'Challa white or have him marry his sister or start talking like a Woke American From Detroit, well, that's when i walk away.

Somebody else can do that.

I write T'Challa as a hero as I see heroes. Heroes who just come in and win every fight are boring as f**k. Heroes with a special gadget in their belt that just happens to be able to take out this villain they've never met before are a joke.

MY T'Challa will make mistakes, he will sometimes fail and he will need assistance from time to time. He has no reason to like or dislike white people as a group. ALL my Wakandans think of ALL non-Wakandans as barbarians. And rightly so. From their POV Wakanda is the only example of civilization that exists on Earth. MY heroes take hits that they feel, they carry every loss. They don't pose. They don't gloat. They are heroes. And, yes, some of my heroes die. If you don't like that, you will not like my super-heroes because they will never be anything other than that.

I built T'Challa's Rogues Gallery for the show the way I wanted. I modified and selected them from what was available and did what I wanted with them. I remade Zanda the way I wanted. I invented Yemandi out of whole cloth because I wanted to.

Because that's what writers do when they get the chance. We hope MOST in the audience dig it but, if they don't? Oh, well. Moving on. You can't please everyone. Best not to try.

I've been on these boards a long time and a lot of writers won't engage fans when they come at them this way. I'm not that guy.

BPQ was the best version of T'Challa that has appeared on TV thus far, as far as I'm concerned.

But I'd be THRILLED if someone would come in and do something better. I hope they will. I'd LOVE to see that show.

I'm just here for the good stories. That's it.

I appreciate the response Mr.RJ.

I just don't see BP like spiderman... the everyman archetype. I am Not saying he should be unbeatable or never making mistakes but it shouldn't be in a manner that makes BP seem pedestrian for a character that is amongst the smartest top 10 in the MU in addition to being amongst the top10 fighters....so any loss or misteps and supervillains (why TigerShark??) should equate to the character profile of BP.

I don't know who would ever want BP to hate white people ...that's very wrong.....however BP is the last bastion on black love in mainstream comics especially when BLs family aspect was stripped away over in DC and given the over-abundance of interracial relationships on black men with white women like Bishop, Luke Cage, falcon, warmachine/Rhodey etc, etc which is fine and ok...its cool to have at least ONE leading black superhero with a divine appreciation for the sistaz.

Regarding BPs character....there are many reasons why Priest's version has the leading iconic status for BP solo runs. This characterisation that re-defined BP which also seriously catapulted BP into super-cool territory...but it seems (I do not know for sure) that this characterisation is not your preference.



I understand you had to write BP your way in a manner that you and Disney mutually preferred....did a great job on Zanda however Klaw was given the reverse treatment and BP was stripped of his cool gear(shapeshifting daggers and wall/water running/walking boots).

I don't know man.

Well, as you said.....we mutually disagree on aspects of BP despite we both being fans of the character. It happens.

If you do get to write BP, I will read it and would love to see those ideas you would do in the comics which you couldn't do in BPQ. You might surprise me like with Mosaic (dull powers but I liked the writing and characterisation which made me keep getting the next issues)

Looking forward to your GL John Stewart future state.....and man, BL really need to give BL his own solo already. The character has his own live action series for goodness sake.

[Marvell2100]

Amazing......

Thanks bro, appreciate it very much!

[Paul Muad'Dib]

RJ is the man, but he’s still selling you “the illusion of separation”.

Can individuals on this thread write a BP series? Can you write a BP series as well as RJ?

I’m not sayin’ we don’t appreciate RJ. We do.

Guys c’mon. there is only one real choice for BP.



Wouldn't THE REAL BP be two steps ahead of everyone else?

[Ezyo1000]

Gentle was such a missed opportunity. You got this xenophobic African civilization home to some of the greatest warriors on planet Earth, this over 10,000 year old kingdom with some of the greatest tech in the MU. And your representative of this nation is a passive, scrawny ass sick kid? Who's biracial because the X-office didn't have the balls to say Wakanda was anti-mutant? Who turns into a weird black Hulk with damn near no martial arts skill or advanced tech? Gentle should've been a young Namor, the opposite of Storm when she got on the X-Men lol. But he's so nondescript and disconnected from the badassery Wakanda is known for that he honestly should've just come from somewhere else in Africa.

Isht you could retcon it to say that why he wasn't "accepted" his mother wasn't actually Wakandan at all, she and her lover/husband/ whatever, were spies or something trying to get in and they were captured, she was pregnant at the time do they took care of her, but when gentle was born they kicked them out, and gabe him the Vibranium because they realized he was a mutant and thst was the only way to prevent him from dying. Boom weak ass is no longer an insult to Wakanda

[Paul Muad'Dib]

He Would. He would be way ahead... looking back @ all the thieves. Who created The New Era BP?

The person that has been in the lead...



Brilliant design (Metalla?), Besouro! thanks for posting the webpage.

Lashley & Rocafort on BP all day!

Videos of cats that look like BP (Black Cat - Blender 2.9 Timelapse)? How original.

[Ezyo1000]

Wakanda was established as xenophobic towards outsiders long before Gentle.

That said, it has also had queens who were outsiders. So really, it's only an issue if a writer wants it to be. And obviously there no more a hive mind in Wakanda than anywhere else, so you'll get good and bad apples in every batch, justifying some degree of varience.

Except we are going off of x office logic and not BP logic. Yes they are xenophobic, and yes there have been queens who weren't Wakandan either. And then there's Hunter who is white. So tell me, how is it gentle is going to be banished because his mother (somehow) met and had a baby with a non-Wakandan? X office will make up all types of isht to sling at the BP mythos thst goes against it's continuity all for the sake of... Slinging isht

[XPac]

Except we are going off of x office logic and not BP logic. Yes they are xenophobic, and yes there have been queens who weren't Wakandan either. And then there's Hunter who is white. So tell me, how is it gentle is going to be banished because his mother (somehow) met and had a baby with a non-Wakandan? X office will make up all types of isht to sling at the BP mythos thst goes against it's continuity all for the sake of... Slinging isht

You're less likely to be ostracized when you're the king of Wakanda.

Again, it's not the X office that made up the idea that Wakandans were xenophobic towards outsides. THat was established long before Gentle. But certainly there have been progressive elements in Wakandan culture like T'Chaka and T'Challa who have challeged that notion. But that won't automatically mean the isolationist xenophobic elements are magically going to be completely wiped out of Wakandan culture overnight. Just like it is in the real world, it can take time. You'll always get a few bad apples in every bunch.

But thats why it was probably a good thing that both T'Chaka and T'Challa got queens outside Wakanda. It probably did a lot as far as helping to generate greater acceptance to outsiders in their culture.

[chief12d]

Isht you could retcon it to say that why he wasn't "accepted" his mother wasn't actually Wakandan at all, she and her lover/husband/ whatever, were spies or something trying to get in and they were captured, she was pregnant at the time do they took care of her, but when gentle was born they kicked them out, and gabe him the Vibranium because they realized he was a mutant and thst was the only way to prevent him from dying. Boom weak ass is no longer an insult to Wakanda

I wouldn't be mad at that. I also like the idea that maybe his mother was a War Dog sent overseas to investigate the Russian mob and in the process of trying to get closer to her target faked a romance with a Russian criminal. She ends up giving birth to Gentle during a critical moment in her mission, resulting in failure. She comes back having shamed her father, a high-ranking chieftain, and with a new half-Wakandan baby she never intended to keep.

So she projects her anger on Nezhno because she thinks he's the reason her career and social life went so badly lol. Idk, having her willingly sleep with a foreigner then getting mad when her xenophobic culture rejects her is kinda stupid. As long as Gentle chooses to be loyal to Wakanda I'd accept him though, stupid backstory and all.

[chief12d]

You're less likely to be ostracized when you're the king of Wakanda.

Again, it's not the X office that made up the idea that Wakandans were xenophobic towards outsides. THat was established long before Gentle. But certainly there have been progressive elements in Wakandan culture like T'Chaka and T'Challa who have challeged that notion. But that won't automatically mean the isolationist xenophobic elements are magically going to be completely wiped out of Wakandan culture overnight. Just like it is in the real world, it can take time. You'll always get a few bad apples in every bunch.

But thats why it was probably a good thing that both T'Chaka and T'Challa got queens outside Wakanda. It probably did a lot as far as helping to generate greater acceptance to outsiders in their culture.

I don't think the issue is Gentle being rejected. That makes perfect sense, he's not royalty so there's a lot less social pressure to respect him and his family for things they've done that are culturally undesirable. Shuri is half-South African but the status of the throne insulates her from the backlash she otherwise would've gotten if she were the daughter of a random vibranium miner. This double standard applies in the real world too. Rich and powerful people can do things that'll only get slight pushback whereas if a regular person did it they'd be socially ostracized.

The issue is the illogical way he was conceived lol. Gentle's mother likely grew up a xenophobe or at the very least knew that Wakandan culture wasn't all that nice to foreigners. And yet she decided to get knocked up by a foreigner and now she's projecting her anger and frustrations onto a child she willingly had. It doesn't make sense.

[Redjack]

I appreciate the response Mr.RJ.

I just don't see BP like spiderman... the everyman archetype.

Nor do I. Which is why I didn't write him that way and never will.

I am Not saying he should be unbeatable or never making mistakes but it shouldn't be in a manner that makes BP seem pedestrian for a character that is amongst the smartest top 10 in the MU in addition to being amongst the top10 fighters....so any loss or misteps and supervillains (why TigerShark??) should equate to the character profile of BP.

Find me a better enemy set for T'Challa than my Shadow Council. I'll wait. There isn't one. And, it's interesting nobody ever bitches about the fact that we never used Everett Ross at all. Even though Priest himself says he was the focus of his first couple arcs and was necessary to the book. We never heard a PEEP about that. Odd.

My Tigershark isn't the one form the comics. The 616 Tigershark is a mutated human and not an Atlantean. There is no Namor in BPQ just like there are no mutants or Fantastic Four. I chose to make TS that way. We wanted to create friction between Africa and Atlantis that went back tens of thousands of years. My M'Baku is neither the one from the movies NOR from the comics. Not an accident. Etc. After the movie did come out and people saw how popular MCU M'Baku was, SOME of the execs wanted us to change our version to match but it as too late by then. I was against it anyway.

BP is the last bastion on black love in mainstream comics especially when BLs family aspect was stripped away over in DC and given the over-abundance of interracial relationships on black men with white women like Bishop, Luke Cage, falcon, warmachine/Rhodey etc, etc which is fine and ok...its cool to have at least ONE leading black superhero with a divine appreciation for the sistaz.

All I've ever said about T'Challa's love life is that Storm was the wrong choice for him. I stand by that. Personally, I'm not reading most superhero comics to see who's [redact]ing who. That holds almost zero interest for me. LOVE interests, paramours, sexy sizzle with enemies and competitors? I'm all in for that. But, again, you won't see my BP paired off with one woman unless it's someone from his EXISTING cast of characters. That's not what the book's about. it's called BLACK PANTHER, not BLACK PANTHER AND STORM.

Regarding BPs character....there are many reasons why Priest's version has the leading iconic status for BP solo runs. This characterisation that re-defined BP which also seriously catapulted BP into super-cool territory...but it seems (I do not know for sure) that this characterisation is not your preference.

Except, of course, BPQ Panther is absolutely in line with Priest's and Lee's and Kirby's. It's almost as if I did that on purpose. I've been reading comics a LONG time. My references go back to Day One.

I understand you had to write BP your way in a manner that you and Disney mutually preferred....did a great job on Zanda however Klaw was given the reverse treatment and BP was stripped of his cool gear(shapeshifting daggers and wall/water running/walking boots).

He ran on walls several times; how do you think he did that? How do you think he jumped off the side of a skyscraper and just landed in the street? I've never liked the daggers so, no, they won't show up in any version of the Panther I write. T'Challa is not his gear; that's Iron Man. T'Challais his mind and his body. The gear he uses is the same as you or me using a knife and fork to eat. He is not Batman. He gears up as necessary but baseline T'Challa is him in his habit (which is also not where his coolness comes from). He is cool, in himself, or there's no point.

If you do get to write BP, I will read it and would love to see those ideas you would do in the comics which you couldn't do in BPQ. You might surprise me like with Mosaic (dull powers but I liked the writing and characterisation which made me keep getting the next issues)

we never got to show all of Mosaic's powers. just like nobody knows how Zanda's powers work but me. Nothing I write is boring.

[DC]really need to give BL his own solo already. The character has his own live action series for goodness sake.

I have no interest in writing Black Lightning in any venue. Never have.