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  1. #9886

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    It originally started about criticism over Shuri at her creation and how she could of been her own character with a clearly defined powerset and role that we would not have the mess that is comics Shuri and MCU Shuri being so completely different which caused the weird transition in the comics.
    I guess I differ from most here then: I felt she was always her own character compared to T’Challa. Only similarities to T’Challa is being a highly trained and educated monarch that can fight. The similarities stop there imho.

    As for MCU Shuri, that is entirely the MCU’s doing. Shuri’s power set was on panel since the Coates run, where the difference really sprung out, and she was never a top tier genius at any point prior to the MCU. Filming for the BP movie happened a year later. Besides, who’s to say that MCU Shuri won’t become similar to her comic book version as she gets older? She’s only 18 years old as of Infinity War. She has a long ways to go as far as growth is concerned.

    So many folks wanted Comics Shuri to do her own thing and she’s been doing it since she came back from the dead. That was four years ago. She verbally rejected ruling Wakanda and/or the mantle twice since then. I’m not sure what else has to happen for people to finally accept she’s her own person/character/etc.

  2. #9887
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    It originally started about criticism over Shuri at her creation and how she could of been her own character with a clearly defined powerset and role that we would not have the mess that is comics Shuri and MCU Shuri being so completely different which caused the weird transition in the comics.



    If a character is the same as another but weaker and a different gender/ race then they are a lesser version of the Original with the biggest difference between a different gender or race it still holds true and it's not pointing to gender or race as the problem. Again I never said "Shuri is inferior to T'Challa BECAUSE she is female" on terms of powers, intellect, martial arts etc. She is exactly the same as T'Challa but not as capable. Your trying to find an issue where there is none. The root of the problem is that a legacy character has been created to replace the original but offers nothing unique other than being female in Shuris case, Which does nothing if there isnt substance behind it. Shuri being female has never been a problem with her being Bp. It always been the lack of development that stunted her being her own character for years and has caused the mess we have where the comics are going one way and the MCU went another and it's a cluster trying to synergize the two
    I just want you to stop saying they're exactly the same then following with a sentence detailing they are not. Because the underlined is a contradiction. While saying the biggest difference is their gender. Which taking it in as a whole would lead someone to believe that that is the cause.

  3. #9888
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    I guess I differ from most here then: I felt she was always her own character compared to T’Challa. Only similarities to T’Challa is being a highly trained and educated monarch that can fight. The similarities stop there imho.

    As for MCU Shuri, that is entirely the MCU’s doing. Shuri’s power set was on panel since the Coates run, where the difference really sprung out, and she was never a top tier genius at any point prior to the MCU. Filming for the BP movie happened a year later. Besides, who’s to say that MCU Shuri won’t become similar to her comic book version as she gets older? She’s only 18 years old as of Infinity War. She has a long ways to go as far as growth is concerned.

    So many folks wanted Comics Shuri to do her own thing and she’s been doing it since she came back from the dead. That was four years ago. She verbally rejected ruling Wakanda and/or the mantle twice since then. I’m not sure what else has to happen for people to finally accept she’s her own person/character/etc.
    I think your mistaking, we weren't talking about her being the same as T'Challa in Coates era. We were talking about when Hudlin created her and when she took the mantle, her powerset was exactly the same as T'Challas bit weaker. We were criticizing that from the jump she should of had a very clear path that allowed her to grow into her own character and not have a her development be dependent on T'Challa being out of commission as that was the only way she could become BP. Had she formed pride prior or getting the mantle and developing her own powers and tech THEN room the throne, it would of made a lot of room for her to develop into something different and not feel like T'Challa lite

  4. #9889
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I just want you to stop saying they're exactly the same then following with a sentence detailing they are not. Because the underlined is a contradiction. While saying the biggest difference is their gender. Which taking it in as a whole would lead someone to believe that that is the cause.
    What I was saying still holds true even of I were to use killmonger. If he took over and was a inferior version to T'Challa I would say he was "T'Challa but evil"..

    But how's this: when Shuri took the mantle, she was a weaker, inferior version to T'Challa, she didn't provide anything unique that set apart from T'Challa as a different ruler or bring a specialty to the role of ruler and BP that T'Challa didn't already posses. In terms of what was different, Shuri being the first female BP in recent tome in Wakanda was what was different. So I terms of us as readers this is NOT a good way to develop a legacy character, because they haven't added anything new to the franchise that allows it to grow further. This holds true regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race religious believes etc. Of the legacy character adds nothing new except for a weaker powerset then the writer had failed the character. The end.
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 11-30-2020 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #9890
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    how's this: when Shuri took the mantle, she was a weaker, inferior version to T'Challa, she didn't provide anything unique that set apart from T'Challa as a different ruler or bring a specialty to the role of ruler and BP that T'Challa didn't already posses. In terms of what was different, Shuri being the first female BP in recent tome in Wakanda was what was different. So I terms of us as readers this is NOT a good way to develop a legacy character, because they haven't added anything new to the franchise that allows it to grow further. This holds true regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race religious believes etc. Of the legacy character adds nothing new except for a weaker powerset then the writer had failed the character. The end.
    All you need is the underlined part. That establishes that they are different. Her gender would have nothing to do with that statement. So the phrase would not be needed anymore. But I'd swap the word "versions" with "BP compared to"
    Last edited by Cville; 11-30-2020 at 10:06 PM.

  6. #9891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    What I was saying still holds true even of I were to use killmonger. If he took over and was a inferior version to T'Challa I would say he was "T'Challa but evil"..

    But how's this: when Shuri took the mantle, she was a weaker, inferior version to T'Challa, she didn't provide anything unique that set apart from T'Challa as a different ruler or bring a specialty to the role of ruler and BP that T'Challa didn't already posses. In terms of what was different, Shuri being the first female BP in recent tome in Wakanda was what was different. So I terms of us as readers this is NOT a good way to develop a legacy character, because they haven't added anything new to the franchise that allows it to grow further. This holds true regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race religious believes etc. Of the legacy character adds nothing new except for a weaker powerset then the writer had failed the character. The end.
    Itís crazy that this much explaining has to go into explaining why poor conceptual groundwork for a supporting character is bad and ultimately drags down a franchise...

    Anyways, I like Shuri and look forward to the streamlining of her character so she can be the supporting character she was designed to be. In the hopes she catches on and can be a badass solo lead with her own franchise in the future. Hopefully the MCU doesnít adapt her time as BP before TíChallaís story is complete but weíll cross that bridge when we get there lol.

  7. #9892

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think your mistaking, we weren't talking about her being the same as T'Challa in Coates era. We were talking about when Hudlin created her and when she took the mantle, her powerset was exactly the same as T'Challas bit weaker. We were criticizing that from the jump she should of had a very clear path that allowed her to grow into her own character and not have a her development be dependent on T'Challa being out of commission as that was the only way she could become BP. Had she formed pride prior or getting the mantle and developing her own powers and tech THEN room the throne, it would of made a lot of room for her to develop into something different and not feel like T'Challa lite
    You don’t think Shuri has shown growth in her 15 year existence? From Princess to Queen to Griot (with the smarts added later via the MCU)? Again we differ on her being T’Challa lite. She was her own thing from the start, imho

    I also doubt her having a more defined path would’ve done much to avoid the ire of some of the fan base. Many think she’s taking something away from T’Challa right now and she hasn’t been the Queen/BP in 6 years. Add the fact that she was a BP/ Queen (despite it not being permanent), and well, here we are.

    Hudlin could’ve done a better job with Shuri but him making her a BP ensured her survival (all the Hudlin stuff is gone, save her). And T’Challa is King and BP anyway. So what was lost, really?
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 11-30-2020 at 10:41 PM.

  8. #9893
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    It’s crazy that this much explaining has to go into explaining why poor conceptual groundwork for a supporting character is bad and ultimately drags down a franchise...

    Anyways, I like Shuri and look forward to the streamlining of her character so she can be the supporting character she was designed to be. In the hopes she catches on and can be a badass solo lead with her own franchise in the future. Hopefully the MCU doesn’t adapt her time as BP before T’Challa’s story is complete but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there lol.
    I mean whatever at this point, I'm over it. I like Shuri too, and for the record anyone who would of come into the mythos and took the mantle and was handled the way she was would get the same exact reaction from me. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer lol. And for the love of bast let's not dive into that again, I can't even right now lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    You don’t think Shuri has shown growth in her 15 year existence? From Princess to Queen to Griot (with the smarts added later via the MCU)? Again we differ on her being T’Challa lite. She was her own thing from the start, imho

    I also doubt her having a more defined path would’ve done much to avoid the ire of some of the fan base. Many think she’s taking something away from T’Challa right now and she hasn’t been the Queen/BP in 6 years. Add the fact that she was a BP/ Queen (despite it not being permanent), and well, here we are.

    Hudlin could’ve done a better job with Shuri but him making her a BP ensured her survival (all the Hudlin stuff is gone, save her). And T’Challa is King and BP anyway. So what was lost, really?
    Has she shown growth? Yeah, would I consider it meaningful and impactful in a way that translates into a clear path of who she is and what she's about? Absolutely not. Yes she went from princess to queen to griot but where's that moment that really makes you say, " Yeah, she's reached the next level, this is where the character needs to be and should be at, and this will set up her up as her own hero who can forge her own adventures".

    All we have of her are cameo appearances and two failed mini's. And correction she was Black Panther in the most recent Shuri book so it's been more like a year. I absolutely think her having a defined role and path would of helped Because that's how you develople legacy characters. You give them something that the OG character lacks, have them occupy a space that they have carved for themselves so that when the obvious inevitable return status quo happens, they aren't left in a vacuum needing heavy revamps like Coates did (and failed) and Nnendi tried (and also failed) to accomplish.

    Really the only place outside the MCU where Shuri has been successfully carved out a role has been Pantherjack.

    And again and I'll keep repeating this, I understand WHY Hudlin did what he did. My criticism from the get go was that he didn't set her up for success properly and the transition (due to the lack of development of her character) was mediocre at best.

  9. #9894
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    To be honest I think saying Shuri was just a female version of T'Challa is a little bit of stretch. She definitely had a very different personality and approach than T'Challa. Yes she envied him a little and wanted to be BP, and also had a similar set of skills, I can agree with that.

    However it was Hudlin himself that did imply she was a lesser BP than T'Challa though. He even had the Panther God say as such to her face. She was also frequently shown to be impulsive and not as good as T'Challa in many regards.

  10. #9895
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    To be honest I think saying Shuri was just a female version of T'Challa is a little bit of stretch. She definitely had a very different personality and approach than T'Challa. Yes she envied him a little and wanted to be BP, and also had a similar set of skills, I can agree with that.

    However it was Hudlin himself that did imply she was a lesser BP than T'Challa though. He even had the Panther God say as such to her face. She was also frequently shown to be impulsive and not as good as T'Challa in many regards.
    lol.

    you all are going to love King in Black


  11. #9896
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...source=twitter

    Black Panther is the number 3 film of the decade according to Hollywood Reporter.

  12. #9897
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...source=twitter

    Black Panther is the number 3 film of the decade according to Hollywood Reporter.
    With 12 Years a Slave right after it though lol.

    Glad Get Out was number one.

  13. #9898
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    With 12 Years a Slave right after it though lol.

    Glad Get Out was number one.
    Lol.

    Oh well, maybe BP 2 will be number one in the next decade.

  14. #9899
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...source=twitter

    Black Panther is the number 3 film of the decade according to Hollywood Reporter.
    WW? Hunger Games?

    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  15. #9900
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    WW? Hunger Games?

    What's the complaint? Those two are lower than BP.

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