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  1. #9901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...source=twitter

    Black Panther is the number 3 film of the decade according to Hollywood Reporter.
    If they put another list together, it'll be in a different order.

    And no Captain America Winter Soldier? WTF?

  2. #9902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I mean whatever at this point, I'm over it. I like Shuri too, and for the record anyone who would of come into the mythos and took the mantle and was handled the way she was would get the same exact reaction from me. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer lol. And for the love of bast let's not dive into that again, I can't even right now lol




    Has she shown growth? Yeah, would I consider it meaningful and impactful in a way that translates into a clear path of who she is and what she's about? Absolutely not. Yes she went from princess to queen to griot but where's that moment that really makes you say, " Yeah, she's reached the next level, this is where the character needs to be and should be at, and this will set up her up as her own hero who can forge her own adventures".

    All we have of her are cameo appearances and two failed mini's. And correction she was Black Panther in the most recent Shuri book so it's been more like a year. I absolutely think her having a defined role and path would of helped Because that's how you develople legacy characters. You give them something that the OG character lacks, have them occupy a space that they have carved for themselves so that when the obvious inevitable return status quo happens, they aren't left in a vacuum needing heavy revamps like Coates did (and failed) and Nnendi tried (and also failed) to accomplish.

    Really the only place outside the MCU where Shuri has been successfully carved out a role has been Pantherjack.

    And again and I'll keep repeating this, I understand WHY Hudlin did what he did. My criticism from the get go was that he didn't set her up for success properly and the transition (due to the lack of development of her character) was mediocre at best.
    Yea Redjack did the best with Shuri's character. Younger and quippier, but competent in her own right. Intelligent, but not in a way that made T'Challa look like he barely dabbled in the lab or couldn't hold his own. Redjack is by far the best Shuri writer we've seen, outstripping the likes of Coogler, Coates, and Hudlin. That's a character that with enough push could've anchored her own show and done her own thing without feeling like a reskinned version of her brother.

    The key to ANY multimedia franchise is compartmentalization. Unless it's not a static franchise, it makes no sense to create shadow characters that can do nothing but be less capable versions of preexisting characters, with the only difference being genitalia or race. This is especially the case with lead characters in the comic medium. When making legacies the initial goal should ALWAYS be for them to carve out their own space while being a supplement to the main character.

    Then, after building enough of a following and having enough of their own mythos to draw from, they can spin-off and do their own thing under the umbrella of the lead character's IP. The idea that Shuri should spend her time being a side character or solo spin-off while lusting for the Black Panther mantle is asinine and reductive, putting a permanent cap on her potential and creating a less cohesive franchise. The fact her first solo outing put her back in the BP suit at all is a problem, even though she ends up rejecting it at the end. But to be fair, that story kinda had to be told, as T'Challa was lost in space and there does need to be a BP. Still, not a good premise for her first book. Didn't help that Nnedi Okorafor is a shit comic writer like most of the people Coates brought on.

    Shuri's on a better path now, but all you and I have been trying to say is that she could've been better conceived from the jump so the poor usage of her character from like 2018 up til 2020 didn't happen to the extent that it did. There was always going to be some retrofitting of her character due to the MCU, but the tonal whiplash and vastly different tracks she was on in 2016-2017 is a direct result of her not having much to her character before becoming BP.
    Last edited by chief12d; 12-01-2020 at 08:30 AM.

  3. #9903
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea Redjack did the best with Shuri's character. Younger and quippier, but competent in her own right. Intelligent, but not in a way that made T'Challa look like he barely dabbled in the lab or couldn't hold his own. Redjack is by far the best Shuri writer we've seen, outstripping the likes of Coogler, Coates, and Hudlin. That's a character that with enough push could've anchored her own show and done her own thing without feeling like a reskinned version of her brother.

    The key to ANY multimedia franchise is compartmentalization. Unless it's not a static franchise, it makes no sense to create shadow characters that can do nothing but be less capable versions of preexisting characters, with the only difference being genitalia or race. This is especially the case with lead characters in the comic medium. When making legacies the initial goal should ALWAYS be for them to carve out their own space while being a supplement to the main character.

    Then, after building enough of a following and having enough of their own mythos to draw from, they can spin-off and do their own thing under the umbrella of the lead character's IP. The idea that Shuri should spend her time being a side character or solo spin-off while lusting for the Black Panther mantle is asinine and reductive, putting a permanent cap on her potential and creating a less cohesive franchise. The fact her first solo outing put her back in the BP suit at all is a problem, even though she ends up rejecting it at the end. But to be fair, that story kinda had to be told, as T'Challa was lost in space and there does need to be a BP. Still, not a good premise for her first book. Didn't help that Nnedi Okorafor is a shit comic writer like most of the people Coates brought on.

    Shuri's on a better path now, but all you and I have been trying to say is that she could've been better conceived from the jump so the poor usage of her character from like 2018 up til 2020 didn't happen to the extent that it did. There was always going to be some retrofitting of her character due to the MCU, but the tonal whiplash and vastly different tracks she was on in 2016-2017 is a direct result of her not having much to her character before
    becoming BP.

    Can’t be better said...

  4. #9904
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    With 12 Years a Slave right after it though lol.

    Glad Get Out was number one.
    I mean, the acting was superb and it was well written I suppose, but cotdamn what's with the obsession with Black suffering? And why would this be number 2 for best movie of the decade? People love to see Black folks suffer in hollywood.

  5. #9905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I mean, the acting was superb and it was well written I suppose, but cotdamn what's with the obsession with Black suffering? And why would this be number 2 for best movie of the decade? People love to see Black folks suffer in hollywood.
    My hope is that Black Panther sets off a wave of afrofuturism and afrofantasy projects so we get less slave movies. In the 2 years since the movie dropped we're already seeing a bunch of IPs getting bought and having projects greenlit so in 3-5 years maybe we start seeing more movies/shows that put black folks in a fantastical, idealized light.

    Or just more historical fiction that focuses on black history before chattel slavery. We existed before Europeans colonized Africa, I've always found it a bit unfortunate that Mansa Musa or Amina of Zaria haven't found any traction in Hollywood yet. Lots of black history that has nothing to do with white oppression is available for adaptation. It all depends on what TPTB want to put out and if the market is ready. I'd like to think the success of Black Panther wasn't a fluke and we won't find out until someone pulls the trigger and does another black sci-fi or historical drama film.

  6. #9906
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea Redjack did the best with Shuri's character. Younger and quippier, but competent in her own right. Intelligent, but not in a way that made T'Challa look like he barely dabbled in the lab or couldn't hold his own. Redjack is by far the best Shuri writer we've seen, outstripping the likes of Coogler, Coates, and Hudlin. That's a character that with enough push could've anchored her own show and done her own thing without feeling like a reskinned version of her brother.

    The key to ANY multimedia franchise is compartmentalization. Unless it's not a static franchise, it makes no sense to create shadow characters that can do nothing but be less capable versions of preexisting characters, with the only difference being genitalia or race. This is especially the case with lead characters in the comic medium. When making legacies the initial goal should ALWAYS be for them to carve out their own space while being a supplement to the main character.

    Then, after building enough of a following and having enough of their own mythos to draw from, they can spin-off and do their own thing under the umbrella of the lead character's IP. The idea that Shuri should spend her time being a side character or solo spin-off while lusting for the Black Panther mantle is asinine and reductive, putting a permanent cap on her potential and creating a less cohesive franchise. The fact her first solo outing put her back in the BP suit at all is a problem, even though she ends up rejecting it at the end. But to be fair, that story kinda had to be told, as T'Challa was lost in space and there does need to be a BP. Still, not a good premise for her first book. Didn't help that Nnedi Okorafor is a shit comic writer like most of the people Coates brought on.

    Shuri's on a better path now, but all you and I have been trying to say is that she could've been better conceived from the jump so the poor usage of her character from like 2018 up til 2020 didn't happen to the extent that it did. There was always going to be some retrofitting of her character due to the MCU, but the tonal whiplash and vastly different tracks she was on in 2016-2017 is a direct result of her not having much to her character before becoming BP.
    I agree with the point that Redjack did the best version even ahead of Coogler, if not just due to the fact that it didn't feel like Shuri took something away from T'Challa to have her space.

    It was hinted that T'Challa is a genius by creating his cw habit, and maaaybe we could argue he was the one who designed the kimoyo emp beads, but it's too vague to say for sure and mostly seems like he is smart but not a super genius, atleast that's the hinted vibe.

    Redjacks Shuri indeed was very much her own character and had her own path, I liked and agree with how she was field testing her latest tech as I believe that's where her niche lies, smaller scale but the latest and greatest, while T'Challa is on the fly tech and large scale big picture stuff.

    As for the part about Shuris stories being told and which ones. I dunno, I felt we had extremes to both spectrums. First story all she wanted was to be BP and that was her whole personality and when she got it, she floundered, and felt like there was this mad dash to give her something Which also to me didn't make sense how she was so blood lusted when to start she was so shaken up by killing radioactive man.

    Then we get Nnendi, who blade right into the BS that Coates and co were doing and blaming her woes and troubles on "being born the wrong gender" and acting like a child instead of a forner queen.

    I also felt this story was bad beds they were trying to but disney princess teen Shuri into adult Shuris history and it was so bad that even realdealholy was chastising it, and you know you frakked up when big supporters of a character are going "wtf is this isht??"

    Frankly it's still the issue that Shuri was so underdeveloped and without a path that we got the mess that happened. She is better now and I honestly think that the 616 and the MCU should take a note from Redjack and head that angle for T'Challa and Shuris dynamic.. and also get Redjacks Zanda into the 616 as well

  7. #9907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    lol.

    you all are going to love King in Black

    []
    Thatís a nice Vixen avatar.

  8. #9908
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    My hope is that Black Panther sets off a wave of afrofuturism and afrofantasy projects so we get less slave movies. In the 2 years since the movie dropped we're already seeing a bunch of IPs getting bought and having projects greenlit so in 3-5 years maybe we start seeing more movies/shows that put black folks in a fantastical, idealized light.

    Or just more historical fiction that focuses on black history before chattel slavery. We existed before Europeans colonized Africa, I've always found it a bit unfortunate that Mansa Musa or Amina of Zaria haven't found any traction in Hollywood yet. Lots of black history that has nothing to do with white oppression is available for adaptation. It all depends on what TPTB want to put out and if the market is ready. I'd like to think the success of Black Panther wasn't a fluke and we won't find out until someone pulls the trigger and does another black sci-fi or historical drama film.
    Bp was the rocket that shattered the supposed glass ceiling notion that black excellence can't sell and only Black suffering will turn a profit. Honestly, 12 years a slave, roots, and other movie's like that simply put me in a bad mood and fill me with rage and not in a positive way that makes you want to accomplish something great.

    I mean even underground, which had a little bit more to it as it was showing Black folks rising up and fighting back it still filled me with rage to the point that I didn't want to watch the 2nd season despite my wife wanting to (she is white) because she liked how it wasn't just another doom and gloom and they were shown to be fighting back.

    I mean Isht the last time I saw anything slave related and didn't feel like crap and anger was the boondocks episode "Catcher Freeman" and that's because Aaron is a genius and turned it into satire (I would also like to say, I think he would make for a good BP writer as well though I don't know what he is doing currently) and poked fun at it, I mean how can you not laugh at slaves mocking their slave owner and laughing at him and his whinning reply is "Aw come on guys, massa has feelings too!"

  9. #9909
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    My hope is that Black Panther sets off a wave of afrofuturism and afrofantasy projects so we get less slave movies. In the 2 years since the movie dropped we're already seeing a bunch of IPs getting bought and having projects greenlit so in 3-5 years maybe we start seeing more movies/shows that put black folks in a fantastical, idealized light.

    Or just more historical fiction that focuses on black history before chattel slavery. We existed before Europeans colonized Africa, I've always found it a bit unfortunate that Mansa Musa or Amina of Zaria haven't found any traction in Hollywood yet. Lots of black history that has nothing to do with white oppression is available for adaptation. It all depends on what TPTB want to put out and if the market is ready. I'd like to think the success of Black Panther wasn't a fluke and we won't find out until someone pulls the trigger and does another black sci-fi or historical drama film.
    Bruh, we can barely get comics to show Black heroes without them being enabled by white peers. X-MEN office that is gutless to admit the trash treatment black male characters get. DC is just now making a push to place a black man in a prominent role as their marquee hero Batman. I agree with your insights on overlooked concepts and storylines that for some reason are never in the mix. Its a shame that we have never seen what should be an obvious slam dunk of the intersection of ancient Africa, Bast, Apocalypse and Wakanda....?? You mean nobody is the ounce of creativity to blend and craft these elements together and allow new heroes and villains to come out of this mined material. Hell you could even tie in Mansua.

  10. #9910
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruh, we can barely get comics to show Black heroes without them being enabled by white peers. X-MEN office that is gutless to admit the trash treatment black male characters get. DC is just now making a push to place a black man in a prominent role as their marquee hero Batman. I agree with your insights on overlooked concepts and storylines that for some reason are never in the mix. Its a shame that we have never seen what should be an obvious slam dunk of the intersection of ancient Africa, Bast, Apocalypse and Wakanda....?? You mean nobody is the ounce of creativity to blend and craft these elements together and allow new heroes and villains to come out of this mined material. Hell you could even tie in Mansua.
    That's a story I want to do a fan fiction on. Apocalypse hears about WK through travelers coming from the south, or his Celestial tech picks up on Vb radiation signature. Culminating to a 12 issue maxi series about him trying to invade, but never getting past the Jabari lands. I was thinking of using the Panther called "The Wall" mentioned in Hickmans new Avengers.

  11. #9911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Bp was the rocket that shattered the supposed glass ceiling notion that black excellence can't sell and only Black suffering will turn a profit. Honestly, 12 years a slave, roots, and other movie's like that simply put me in a bad mood and fill me with rage and not in a positive way that makes you want to accomplish something great.

    I mean even underground, which had a little bit more to it as it was showing Black folks rising up and fighting back it still filled me with rage to the point that I didn't want to watch the 2nd season despite my wife wanting to (she is white) because she liked how it wasn't just another doom and gloom and they were shown to be fighting back.

    I mean Isht the last time I saw anything slave related and didn't feel like crap and anger was the boondocks episode "Catcher Freeman" and that's because Aaron is a genius and turned it into satire (I would also like to say, I think he would make for a good BP writer as well though I don't know what he is doing currently) and poked fun at it, I mean how can you not laugh at slaves mocking their slave owner and laughing at him and his whinning reply is "Aw come on guys, massa has feelings too!"
    There's a place for slave movies in the culture no doubt, but I agree wholeheartedly that there does need to be space for black stories on the big and small screen that aren't framed in terms of racial struggle. All too often, slave movies tend to feel like tragedy porn for the Oscars that miss out on the nuances and more intimate stories that defined the era. They play the same old emotional beats, feature the same tropes, and add nothing new more often than they meaningfully update the conversation.

    Their dominance in the cultural conversation also implicitly defines and hyperfocuses black history on the fight against white oppression, which doesn't do justice to the breadth of black experience and creativity that can be offered to those within the community and outside of it. Black boys and girls deserve more projects that aren't about the hood and Jim Crow, they deserve to be the face of their own fantasy franchises while still remembering where they come from, the same way white kids do.

    That's why Black Panther was such a moment in pop culture history and why other properties like Blade have made such profound impacts as well. I'm hopeful for the contributions they've made and think we're gonna start seeing films and shows like them in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruh, we can barely get comics to show Black heroes without them being enabled by white peers. X-MEN office that is gutless to admit the trash treatment black male characters get. DC is just now making a push to place a black man in a prominent role as their marquee hero Batman. I agree with your insights on overlooked concepts and storylines that for some reason are never in the mix. Its a shame that we have never seen what should be an obvious slam dunk of the intersection of ancient Africa, Bast, Apocalypse and Wakanda....?? You mean nobody is the ounce of creativity to blend and craft these elements together and allow new heroes and villains to come out of this mined material. Hell you could even tie in Mansua.
    And that's exactly why comics can't be the only material studios draw from for adaptations. The Big 2 throughout their history were designed to appeal to white men and that's more or less what they do now. It's just modern market pressures and new consumers demand a bit more diversification than in the past. It is what it is and likely will be the case until they eventually die out in their current form. Though the indie stuff is promising.

    Thankfully the self-publishing boom for novels and more opportunities for black creators at large are creating an easier environment where black stories can be told and get turned into legitimate projects. Tau of Rage of Dragons could be a bigger hit than Killmonger if his novel got a proper big budget adaptation. Black girls won't be starved for Shuri to get a spin-off because Children of Blood and Bone's Zelie will be a bigger character when her movie by Lucasfilm comes out. The world of fiction has always been bigger than just comics and that's where the future of black sci-fi, fantasy, and historical drama lies imo. But learning about the ancient history between Wakanda and the one non-Wakandan mutant I could tolerate, Apocalypse, would be interesting lol.
    Last edited by chief12d; 12-01-2020 at 01:53 PM.

  12. #9912
    Spectacular Member Paul Muad'Dib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruh, we can barely get comics to show Black heroes without them being enabled by white peers. X-MEN office that is gutless to admit the trash treatment black male characters get. DC is just now making a push to place a black man in a prominent role as their marquee hero Batman. I agree with your insights on overlooked concepts and storylines that for some reason are never in the mix. Its a shame that we have never seen what should be an obvious slam dunk of the intersection of ancient Africa, Bast, Apocalypse and Wakanda....?? You mean nobody is the ounce of creativity to blend and craft these elements together and allow new heroes and villains to come out of this mined material. Hell you could even tie in Mansua.
    Yep, nope… no slam dunks! But a lot of good game. I still give props to the many great talents that have graced my favorite comics. Bravo.

  13. #9913
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    Hey that's Bone Collector in the Captain America suit shooting hoops!


    I filmed a couple of his mixtape features and have appeared in a few of his ankle breaking moves as a Goon Slam Gary victim!


    He sometimes teams up with The Professor who dresses as Spiderman so I'm trying to get my son to dress up as Black Panther and go on tour with them!


    You have not lived until you had someone bounce a basketball off your head and then cross you over through your own legs!


    Last edited by FLEX HECTIC; 12-01-2020 at 02:28 PM.
    Get Hectic!

  14. #9914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    lol.

    you all are going to love King in Black

    That's one of my top 5 Panther stories. Can't wait.
    Last edited by TrooperCameron; 12-01-2020 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #9915
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruh, we can barely get comics to show Black heroes without them being enabled by white peers. X-MEN office that is gutless to admit the trash treatment black male characters get. DC is just now making a push to place a black man in a prominent role as their marquee hero Batman. I agree with your insights on overlooked concepts and storylines that for some reason are never in the mix. Its a shame that we have never seen what should be an obvious slam dunk of the intersection of ancient Africa, Bast, Apocalypse and Wakanda....?? You mean nobody is the ounce of creativity to blend and craft these elements together and allow new heroes and villains to come out of this mined material. Hell you could even tie in Mansua.
    DC isn't puttig a effor on a black Batman, they are doing it out of continuity for now. They have a black Superman and never did anything with tht and only now they are doing a book with Vixen

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