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  1. #5176
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    I haven't read the X-Men issue, so I'm lacking the context to give any sort of meaningful opinion on this.

    But inherently I don't believe that her identifying herself as a mutant or citizen of Krokoa would necessarily mean she's not also african. Theoretically there's no reason she can't be both. I know plenty of people who identify themselves as American for example... but they also identify themselves with their own ethnic background. Being American doesn't automatically mean someone is no longer Chinesse or Russian or whatever. And I think being a mutant would largely work the same way. Theoretically at least.

    Again, I didn't read the X-Men issue, so I'm lacking context. But the notion that she must be either/or rather than all of the above seems sort of puzzling to me. Maybe it wouldn't if I bothered reading the issue.

  2. #5177
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Folks let's limit the Storm discussion (and posting of panels, especially when T'Challa is completely absent in them) when it directly relates to T'Challa and not about what group Ororo primarily identifies with. We've got the Storm Appreciation thread over at the X-Books forum for that.

    Moving on.
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  3. #5178
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Folks let's limit the Storm discussion (and posting of panels, especially when T'Challa is completely absent in them) when it directly relates to T'Challa and not about what group Ororo primarily identifies with. We've got the Storm Appreciation thread over at the X-Books forum for that.

    Moving on.
    Thread title doesn't say Tchalla. It says Black Panther. And last I checked Storm appears in Black Panther comics. Or should conversations about Shuri, Okoye, Ramonda, and any other minor characters when Tchalla isnt in the scene have their own thread too?

  4. #5179
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    …when it directly relates to T'Challa
    Who happens to be the Black Panther we're talking about. We all know that. We're not splitting hairs about definitions here. The recent Storm discussions pertain to mutants and Krakoa and is threadjacking. Move on people.
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  5. #5180
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Thread title doesn't say Tchalla. It says Black Panther. And last I checked Storm appears in Black Panther comics. Or should conversations about Shuri, Okoye, Ramonda, and any other minor characters when Tchalla isnt in the scene have their own thread too?
    Well, the X of Swords event from what I understand will be making a pit stop in Wakanda in Mauraders 13. So we might have a better idea of exactly where Storm stands when that happens.

    Marauders-13-Cover-Vertical.jpg

  6. #5181
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not sure what ideal would really be though.

    To me he was always powerful enough as is. He's got the resources of the most advanced nation on the planet, so he can potentially upgrade himself in almost any way he wants. There's not a whole lot he could do with kotd powers that he couldn't do with his own tech anyways, so really he was fine simply returning to his regular status quo. Which for the most part KotD did.
    T'Challa isn't Tony. He doesn't use tech to enhance himself like that, he is a minimalist. Using hyper tech only when the situation calls for it, abd it's usually done in conjunction with prep. Having the kotd power in the way it was described in the FF book by Hickman, would be that he could call on the knowledge and strength of the previous BPs. So enhancing his strength, and his knowledge is a huge upgrade, and could allow for so e very cool stories that go outside the standard stuff he is involved in, with enough creativity behind the writer. The zombie thing was dumb honestly. Hickman simply failed to flesh out what the powers actually did and did not do so fans theorized and when it came time to show it we got... A weak ass showing. He didn't even control the zombies or convince them without Namors help

  7. #5182
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Folks let's limit the Storm discussion (and posting of panels, especially when T'Challa is completely absent in them) when it directly relates to T'Challa and not about what group Ororo primarily identifies with. We've got the Storm Appreciation thread over at the X-Books forum for that.

    Moving on.
    I agree, this whole thing with Storm currently does not pertain to T'Challa at all. When it does, sure we can talk about it, but it's current form? I'd like it to move to Storm's thread

  8. #5183
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    T'Challa isn't Tony. He doesn't use tech to enhance himself like that, he is a minimalist. Using hyper tech only when the situation calls for it, abd it's usually done in conjunction with prep. Having the kotd power in the way it was described in the FF book by Hickman, would be that he could call on the knowledge and strength of the previous BPs. So enhancing his strength, and his knowledge is a huge upgrade, and could allow for so e very cool stories that go outside the standard stuff he is involved in, with enough creativity behind the writer. The zombie thing was dumb honestly. Hickman simply failed to flesh out what the powers actually did and did not do so fans theorized and when it came time to show it we got... A weak ass showing. He didn't even control the zombies or convince them without Namors help
    Enhancing his strength with tech is not really different from enhancing if with kotd powers. Point being if he needs to be stronger for a given situation he can. Kotd powers not needed.

    But talking to previous BP is an okay addition. If all king if the dead did was that, it would be enough to justify it.

  9. #5184
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not sure what ideal would really be though.

    To me he was always powerful enough as is. He's got the resources of the most advanced nation on the planet, so he can potentially upgrade himself in almost any way he wants. There's not a whole lot he could do with kotd powers that he couldn't do with his own tech anyways, so really he was fine simply returning to his regular status quo. Which for the most part KotD did.
    Well, if having the "strength of every Black Panther that came before him" was accurate, his increased strength level would not be the result of technology. If another writer decided to explore this, it could really show Black Panther as being superhuman and not "heart-shaped herb peak human" strength level.

    Also, increasing his strength through the various strength levels of all previous Black Panthers could theoretically make him stronger than he would be if he tried to increase his strength through technological methods. Especially since we don't know exactly how strong some of the previous Black Panthers were. Some of them could have been BEASTS in terms of strength, theoretically. Imagine if Black Panther somehow managed to "stack" their strength levels. Unfortunately we don't know if he can even do that because Hickman left that "strength" thing vague. But I guess since it is vague, other writers can take the wheel and turn it into something awesome.
    Last edited by MoneySpider; 08-01-2020 at 04:07 PM.
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  10. #5185
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Enhancing his strength with tech is not really different from enhancing if with kotd powers. Point being if he needs to be stronger for a given situation he can. Kotd powers not needed.

    But talking to previous BP is an okay addition. If all king if the dead did was that, it would be enough to justify it.
    Your casually forgetting the knowledge and experience of previous BPs as well. Again it's not simply a strength boost, it boosts all of his stats, genius, prep, skills of any kind etc. It's a power with massive potential based on basts words.

    Unfortunately it didn't come to fruitation

  11. #5186
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    Well, if having the "strength of every Black Panther that came before him" was accurate, his increased strength level would not be the result of technology. If another writer decided to explore this, it could really show Black Panther as being superhuman and not "heart-shaped herb peak human" strength level.
    I think the point though is that pretty much every writer, Hickman included, took that line as hyperbole.

    He's in that peak human to slightly meta human ball park... which again for him is fine. He's got all sorts of gear to battle physically stronger opponents if he needs to.

    Really, I think the only element of KotD which has any value at this point is the ability to talk to previous BP's. THough the spear Coates added potentially is handy. I sort of wish he explained it better though.

  12. #5187
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Your casually forgetting the knowledge and experience of previous BPs as well. Again it's not simply a strength boost, it boosts all of his stats, genius, prep, skills of any kind etc. It's a power with massive potential based on basts words.

    Unfortunately it didn't come to fruitation
    Oh, trust me... I didn't casually forget the wisdom and knowledge they attempted to impart on T'Challa. I WISH I could forget, as I found it a little annoying after a point... but I didn't.

    Because T'Challa was clearly the smartest of the BP's by far, there was little to no gain from accessing their knowledge. Griot powers worked better for Shuri than T'CHalla since pre-movie synergy she wasnt super intelligent, so I could buy her powers helping her figure out what do it. BUt T'Challa didn't need it. He could figure stuff out without outside help.

    Though in all fairness, they TECHNICALLY were right when they got on his case about not blowing up the Great Societys earth. So I'll give them that. They were a bit annoying... but they weren't wrong.
    Last edited by XPac; 08-01-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  13. #5188
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think the point though is that pretty much every writer, Hickman included, took that line as hyperbole.

    He's in that peak human to slightly meta human ball park... which again for him is fine. He's got all sorts of gear to battle physically stronger opponents if he needs to.

    Really, I think the only element of KotD which has any value at this point is the ability to talk to previous BP's. THough the spear Coates added potentially is handy. I sort of wish he explained it better though.
    Are meta-human and superhuman the same thing? Because Hickman clearly indicated that Black Panther was superhuman with the KOTD upgrade. He didn't say anything about Black Panther still being peak human.
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  14. #5189
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Well, the X of Swords event from what I understand will be making a pit stop in Wakanda in Mauraders 13. So we might have a better idea of exactly where Storm stands when that happens.

    Marauders-13-Cover-Vertical.jpg
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  15. #5190
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    Are meta-human and superhuman the same thing? Because Hickman clearly indicated that Black Panther was superhuman with the KOTD upgrade. He didn't say anything about Black Panther still being peak human.
    Sure he might be slightly superhuman instead of peak... but I think the overall point being that he's ROUGHLY the same. If you didn't read his formspring (and really 99.99% of the comic book readers didn't), you probably would have no idea that he was any stronger as no writers, Hickman included, really bothered writing him any different.

    Like I said, the line about him having the strength of the previous BP's was probably hyperbole in hindsight. I don't think he was meant to be taken literally. Or at least no one seemed to as far as I can tell.

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