Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

T'Challa not blowing up the other earth was probably his greatest failure, so Coates obviously had to throw that one in there. Despite the previous BP's pleading T'Challa would refuse to compromise his principals in order to save the lives of 2 entire universes. The BP's actually had valid reason to be critical of him for that one, and since we never really had any closure on panel over that it's good that he added that here.

The betrayel of Steve in and of itself isn't a huge deal, but it highlights his later mistake with the Great Societys earth since T'challa ends up agreeing with Steve. He basically betrayed Steve for nothing, so those particular incidents dovetail well together.

AvX is an muddier issue, for the reasons you describe. Because Shuri was in charge the buck technically does stop with her. She should get the lion's share of the blame... and perhaps if she weren't dead she might have. But at the same time, I DO think you can credibly place some of the blame on T'Challa for that. Shuri at the time wasn't friends with the Avengers... she might not have risked Wakanda to protect them without T'Challa. So that's a case where there's certainly a bit of truth to the criticism... though it doesn't tell the whole story.

like I said in my original message. The things your saying were T'Challas fault weren't called out by Coates. Also sure the betrayal could maybe lead to dovetailing into not blowing up the world's and T'Challa betraying Steve for nothing... But that's not how it's presented in the Comics. Its portrayed as two separate issues. So your simply trying to speculate a reason when in truth Coates simply took all of it out of context without thought

[XPac]

like I said in my original message. The things your saying were T'Challas fault weren't called out by Coates. Also sure the betrayal could maybe lead to dovetailing into not blowing up the world's and T'Challa betraying Steve for nothing... But that's not how it's presented in the Comics. Its portrayed as two separate issues. So your simply trying to speculate a reason when in truth Coates simply took all of it out of context without thought

THe post I was responding to was asking why people were blaming T'Challa in the FIRST season, not in the last issue. And people were calling T'Challa out for the Cabal destroying Wakanda in the first season. If you read both my post and the post I was responding to, my answer makes more sense

[Cville]

Was it weird that the griots had a problem with Tchalla not blowing up a planet to save Wakanda, but had a problem with him choosing Wakanda over Storm?

Also why be concerned about Steve. He was a obstacle to saving Wakanda? If they don't mind destroying a planet, mind wiping Steve is nothing.

[butterflykyss]

Was it weird that the griots had a problem with Tchalla not blowing up a planet to save Wakanda, but had a problem with him choosing Wakanda over Storm?

Also why be concerned about Steve. He was a obstacle to saving Wakanda? If they don't mind destroying a planet, mind wiping Steve is nothing.

he didnt choose wakanda over storm. be chose the AVENGERS over her. there's a difference.

[Cville]

he didnt choose wakanda over storm. be chose the AVENGERS over her. there's a difference.

He chose Wakanda. He the vision of Wakanda being destroyed with the Phoenix overtop of the city. He chose the side that wanted to prevent it coming to Earth, thus saving Wakanda.

Just like when Priest had him say he joined the Avenger to spy on them. He does what he thinks will benefit Wakanda.

[XPac]

Was it weird that the griots had a problem with Tchalla not blowing up a planet to save Wakanda, but had a problem with him choosing Wakanda over Storm?

Also why be concerned about Steve. He was a obstacle to saving Wakanda? If they don't mind destroying a planet, mind wiping Steve is nothing.

Honestly I don't think they had a problem with T'Challa breaking up with Storm or stabbing Steve in the back... I think the point was more they knew T'Challa had problems with it. It's less about them coming to accept the choices he made and more about T'Challa himself coming to grips with it. It's the comic book equivalent of a therapy session.

Which isn't to say they didn't legit disagree with SOME of his choices (specifically the NOT blowing up a planet part) ... but a couple they probably didn't give a damn about one way or the other.

[XPac]

He chose Wakanda. He the vision of Wakanda being destroyed with the Phoenix overtop of the city. He chose the side that wanted to prevent it coming to Earth, thus saving Wakanda.

Just like when Priest had him say he joined the Avenger to spy on them. He does what he thinks will benefit Wakanda.

When you say it like that, it really does make it seem like T'Challa didn't think things through.

He received a vision of the Phoenix destroying Wakanda... then hid the Avengers from the Phoenix in Wakanda. In hindsight he probably should have seen that one coming. One has to wonder if T'Challa mentioned the visions when he was getting Shuri's permission to hide the Avengers in Wakanda.

[Cville]

When you say it like that, it really does make it seem like T'Challa didn't think things through.

He received a vision of the Phoenix destroying Wakanda... then hid the Avengers from the Phoenix in Wakanda. In hindsight he probably should have seen that one coming. One has to wonder if T'Challa mentioned the visions when he was getting Shuri's permission to hide the Avengers in Wakanda.

Most people agree AvX was poorly executed. Hickman was in on the project, so he put himself into a corner making the vision he wrote come true. He had options to have it look good, but they messed it up.

[Ezyo1000]

THe post I was responding to was asking why people were blaming T'Challa in the FIRST season, not in the last issue. And people were calling T'Challa out for the Cabal destroying Wakanda in the first season. If you read both my post and the post I was responding to, my answer makes more sense

And I'm talking directly about the BPs and why this "therapy session" was bullisht. Coates is stuck on the past and has everyone else stuck band unable to move forward because everything is remember the past hey T'Challa remember the past when this happened? Like dude can't tell any thing new because all he does is deal with issues that happened last decade and have been resolved or moved on from.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Most people agree AvX was poorly executed. Hickman was in on the project, so he put himself into a corner making the vision he wrote come true. He had options to have it look good, but they messed it up.

Hickman's more about ideas than good execution, IMO

[MindofShadow]

He chose Wakanda. He the vision of Wakanda being destroyed with the Phoenix overtop of the city. He chose the side that wanted to prevent it coming to Earth, thus saving Wakanda.

Just like when Priest had him say he joined the Avenger to spy on them. He does what he thinks will benefit Wakanda.

Also, he annnuled the marriage to maintain optics in Wakanda.

the queen came in with a group of mutants and invaded Wakanda to look for Hope.

The queen got in a fist fight with the king and threw her ring at him

The queen's people/friend/ruler came in and flooded the golden city.

T'challa dumped her ass FOR wakanda. Even leaving the phoenix destroying earth thing, he had no choice.

[XPac]

And I'm talking directly about the BPs and why this "therapy session" was bullisht. Coates is stuck on the past and has everyone else stuck band unable to move forward because everything is remember the past hey T'Challa remember the past when this happened? Like dude can't tell any thing new because all he does is deal with issues that happened last decade and have been resolved or moved on from.

The stuff in Hickmans run wasn't really resolved... that's the problem. Because BP didn't have his own book at the time, there was never really the time or the space to address any of the stuff that happened. The Doras rebelling against T'Challa, Shuri's death, Wakanda being destroyed, etc ... Coates being the first BP writer post Secret Wars was left with the ball, though in theory he could have simply swept Time Runs Out and ignored it like a lot of other writers did ... the 8 month time gap gave them that flexibility. But he saw a story to tell, and ran with it instead.

[RDMXV]

Who is everyone?

The characters in the story do not think he was right. Hence them constantly bringing it up, hence the revolution, hence the loss of some o fhis kingly power.

The audience for Coates run certainly doesn't know he was right. because it has never been shown or stated in this run that T'challa was right.

Who who exactly is "everyone" ?

See this is our key difference. I understand he was right so I assume the other readers understand he was right bc even if you dont know what happened in the past we know who he is as a character (it's of course footnoted in the back of the book for anyone who wants to dig). The step by step explanation is not needed to me. That's like giving training wheels to the audience and just makes T'challa look weak to me. That type of stuff is for children. But again it's just preference and not even really the point.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Say what...

[RDMXV]

Was it weird that the griots had a problem with Tchalla not blowing up a planet to save Wakanda, but had a problem with him choosing Wakanda over Storm?

Also why be concerned about Steve. He was a obstacle to saving Wakanda? If they don't mind destroying a planet, mind wiping Steve is nothing.

I read it as they all had individual views on how they each would have handled certain things differently and they were all just piling on him and his insecurities to make sure he aint fold vs them being in agreement that he just sucks lol.