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  1. #2236
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Why the fuck do we keep talking about punching as if that's all Erik Killmonger knows how to do? This is what is annoying me. You think the guy that knows T'Challa is wearing an energy redirecting suit is gonna try punching him? Really now? The guy that's basically Evil T'Challa?

  2. #2237
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    My dear, tech is always going to replace skill. That's what it does. That's why it's technology. Saying the kinetic energy suit should be used on special occasions or that it should be taken away to highlight skill is a slippery slope. Why not take the entire vibranium suit away so we can see how good T'Challa is at dodging bullets or how durable his body is. You're acting like he needs to fight naked to prove he's the most skilled fighter.

  3. #2238
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Why the fuck do we keep talking about punching as if that's all Erik Killmonger knows how to do? This is what is annoying me. You think the guy that knows T'Challa is wearing an energy redirecting suit is gonna try punching him? Really now? The guy that's basically Evil T'Challa?
    The problem being because of the retcon in Rise T'Challa has been wearing an energy redirecting suit all this time (unless he has multiple suits) ... and YES Killmonger has both tried and sucuessfully punched him despite that many many times. So yeah... apparnetly Killmonger doesn't have a problem punching T'Challa since he knows it works.

  4. #2239
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    My dear, tech is always going to replace skill. That's what it does. That's why it's technology. Saying the kinetic energy suit should be used on special occasions or that it should be taken away to highlight skill is a slippery slope. Why not take the entire vibranium suit away so we can see how good T'Challa is at dodging bullets or how durable his body is. You're acting like he needs to fight naked to prove he's the most skilled fighter.
    I actually thought it was a pretty cool scene in Ultimates when he fought naked (or mostly unclothed at least)... because it IS actually pretty cool showing just how dangerous he is without the tech.

    But more than anything the point is the threat level he faces should be at LEAST equal to him if not a notch or two above. Otherwise, what' the point? I'm fine upgrading T'Challa in response to him fighting an upgraded M'Baku or Klaw or Killmonger. But to upgrade him when he can already beat the guys he's facing without the upgrades does the opposite of upping the threat level. It drops it. Upgrades the bad guys, then come back and talk to me about upgrading the hero. That's how I think it should work at least.

  5. #2240
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    This brings to mind Black Panther's line in Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #300 where the Tinkerer disabled all the heroes' tech, describing the Panther Habit as a shell, or even decoration, in context of it not being the be-all and end-all of his capabilities. Specifically, "Likewise, my Panther Suit is helpful -- but it is decoration. A shell."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #2241
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I agree it's about the writing and the threat level... problem being the threat level didn't increase with his increased power. Had T'Challa's gear been upgraded in response to Man Ape or Klaw being powered up, it would make more sense to me. But him being powered up against guys he already beats anyways seems pretty pointless to me. He's already beating these guys... why make it even easier for him to do it.

    David beating Goliath with a rock is a pretty amazing story. If they had a rematch and David was given a machine gun, it becomes much much less amazing. You don't improve a story by making it easier for the protagonist. If you want to power up anyone, power up M'Baku. Give him Thing level strength which makes it nearly impossible for T'Challa to beat him in a straight fight, so when T'Challa freaking beats him anyways it actually means something.
    "Hey T'Challas suit got a natural progressional upgrade that falls in line with what the resource is able to do in a logical way that also enhances his ability to fight above his weight class more efficiently."

    " But the writer didn't scale up his threats and has actually nerfed T'Challa instead of raising the threat, and the writer who created is is overusing it and replacing skill with tech what do we do?!"

    "I know! Remove the ability! Clearly This is the issue and not the writers fault he can't be bothered to be creative!"

    T'Challa gets an upgrade, so his rogue's in turn get a bigger upgrade to make it harder. You don't remove all innovation and ideas because a lack of creativity. It's not T'Challas fault his rogue's are stuck in dinosaur ages.

    Also your comparison is grossly exaggerated. The true comparison with your David vs Goliath rematch would be if David upgraded his sling shot to be more accurate or more taut for added power in each shot. Your acting like the force push has made T'Challa invincible and able to trade blows with Thanos.

    Also your BP vs DP bit. That is again, poor writing and that doesn't even have to do with the Force push either. That same exact way the story went would of happened in Priest gear too, know why? Because the writer. Wrote it that way. The only way it would of been different would of been if T'Challa was literally back to jungle action days, that's the fault of the writer downplaying T'Challa and nothing to do with his tech.

    Also, since I doubt you have been in a fight, but dodging attacks is more ideal then blocking, and blocking is better than tanking a hit. So this whole deal of T'Challa standing there and getting hit is stupid. A Knight in full clad armor can still be hurt but a weapon. Even if your holding a shield and block an attack there can be enough force to break your arm still, and the combatant doesn't have to be some hulking dude. So again, laziness of the writer.

    And finally the force push doesn't mean he is able to blast goonslam garys with enough force to knockout the hulk or namor, in in theory it simply scales with how much energy is absorbed us his own strength of he uses a physical attack. So he is not going to be hitting everyone with hulk smashing strength.

    It should be used just like in the solo. That was the perfect use of the ability

  7. #2242
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    Part of my ideal space adventure for T'Challa, in my head at least, is having him stranded on a hostile planet without gear or suit and through skill and brain power managing to get off of the planet and continue with his quest for the source of vibranium.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  8. #2243
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    "Hey T'Challas suit got a natural progressional upgrade that falls in line with what the resource is able to do in a logical way that also enhances his ability to fight above his weight class more efficiently."

    " But the writer didn't scale up his threats and has actually nerfed T'Challa instead of raising the threat, and the writer who created is is overusing it and replacing skill with tech what do we do?!"

    "I know! Remove the ability! Clearly This is the issue and not the writers fault he can't be bothered to be creative!"

    T'Challa gets an upgrade, so his rogue's in turn get a bigger upgrade to make it harder. You don't remove all innovation and ideas because a lack of creativity. It's not T'Challas fault his rogue's are stuck in dinosaur ages.

    Also your comparison is grossly exaggerated. The true comparison with your David vs Goliath rematch would be if David upgraded his sling shot to be more accurate or more taut for added power in each shot. Your acting like the force push has made T'Challa invincible and able to trade blows with Thanos.

    Also your BP vs DP bit. That is again, poor writing and that doesn't even have to do with the Force push either. That same exact way the story went would of happened in Priest gear too, know why? Because the writer. Wrote it that way. The only way it would of been different would of been if T'Challa was literally back to jungle action days, that's the fault of the writer downplaying T'Challa and nothing to do with his tech.

    Also, since I doubt you have been in a fight, but dodging attacks is more ideal then blocking, and blocking is better than tanking a hit. So this whole deal of T'Challa standing there and getting hit is stupid. A Knight in full clad armor can still be hurt but a weapon. Even if your holding a shield and block an attack there can be enough force to break your arm still, and the combatant doesn't have to be some hulking dude. So again, laziness of the writer.

    And finally the force push doesn't mean he is able to blast goonslam garys with enough force to knockout the hulk or namor, in in theory it simply scales with how much energy is absorbed us his own strength of he uses a physical attack. So he is not going to be hitting everyone with hulk smashing strength.

    It should be used just like in the solo. That was the perfect use of the ability
    I'm not acting like the force push made him invinsible. I'm merely saying the point should be to make it HARDER for the hero, not easier. Don't bother upgrading the hero until the threats he deals with are upgraded first. Give me a reason to actually care that he can beat the same guys he's able to beat in the past without the upgrades. So yeah, I guess we can agree to disagree here. It's not like I'm going to get my way here, so it's moot. Merely expressing a preference that likely won't see the light of day. Except with Killmonger I suppose, since he likely will be far more powerful next time he faces T'Challa... so that at least works.

  9. #2244
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    And this is why I have never been part of the Rumbles crowd.

    When all the focus is on physical feats, you almost always get power creep in one direction or another.

    When it's a question of outthinking your opponent (a much harder thing to write, but also more rewarding) none of that matters.

  10. #2245
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not acting like the force push made him invinsible. I'm merely saying the point should be to make it HARDER for the hero, not easier. Don't bother upgrading the hero until the threats he deals with are upgraded first. Give me a reason to actually care that he can beat the same guys he's able to beat in the past without the upgrades. So yeah, I guess we can agree to disagree here. It's not like I'm going to get my way here, so it's moot. Merely expressing a preference that likely won't see the light of day. Except with Killmonger I suppose, since he likely will be far more powerful next time he faces T'Challa... so that at least works.
    Then upgrade the villain. Simple. This is the fault of Coates, blame him not the upgrade. There should be a 2/3- 1 adjustment. For every 1 upgrade the hero gets their villains get a 2-3 upgrades to compensate.

    Also this upgrade really in the grand scheme of potential upgrades, is pretty minor compared to other tech we have seen him get over the years.

    Hickman had him using purple boxing gloves to literally go blow for blow with namor, tech to cut through vibranium and drain herald's of their power and he has tech that literally turns someone immortal. Force push is a minor upgrade that isn't making or breaking anything

  11. #2246
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    And this is why I have never been part of the Rumbles crowd.

    When all the focus is on physical feats, you almost always get power creep in one direction or another.

    When it's a question of outthinking your opponent (a much harder thing to write, but also more rewarding) none of that matters.
    I mean, this isn't a huge power creep really but some people are acting like T'Challa just went from street level to cosmic level power or something.

    The out thinking requires a writer to actually try, and focus on something other than their agenda .

    Hell in rise we saw a unique way to use the force push when Narcisse had T'Challa force namor to stand down by threatening to blow up his ship with the kinetic energy, and that isn't super complicated critical thinking either

  12. #2247
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Then upgrade the villain. Simple. This is the fault of Coates, blame him not the upgrade. There should be a 2/3- 1 adjustment. For every 1 upgrade the hero gets their villains get a 2-3 upgrades to compensate.

    Also this upgrade really in the grand scheme of potential upgrades, is pretty minor compared to other tech we have seen him get over the years.

    Hickman had him using purple boxing gloves to literally go blow for blow with namor, tech to cut through vibranium and drain herald's of their power and he has tech that literally turns someone immortal. Force push is a minor upgrade that isn't making or breaking anything
    I'd argue the force push MIGHT be the first upgrade since the vibranium suit which isn't minor. Other upgrades like thrice blessed armor, the ebony blade, shadow physics, the boxing gloves, the force field, etc pretty much came and went with the author. Aaron throws out a lot of new stuff too, but I'd be surprised if any of it sticks around.

    But I think this is the first upgrade since Priest which will actually become a permanent fixture for the character. THat's obviously just speculation since Coates run isn't over yet... but it made it into the movies, which probably cements it into the mythos. We'll see.

  13. #2248
    Incredible Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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  14. #2249
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'd argue the force push MIGHT be the first upgrade since the vibranium suit which isn't minor. Other upgrades like thrice blessed armor, the ebony blade, shadow physics, the boxing gloves, the force field, etc pretty much came and went with the author. Aaron throws out a lot of new stuff too, but I'd be surprised if any of it sticks around.

    But I think this is the first upgrade since Priest which will actually become a permanent fixture for the character. THat's obviously just speculation since Coates run isn't over yet... but it made it into the movies, which probably cements it into the mythos. We'll see.
    When I say minor, I mean in the sense that it's not some overpowered ability that all of a sudden raises his power beyond what he could do anyways. He can still fight from street level all the way up to cosmic level beings, and yeah, the MCU kinda needed to add something other then just claws because he is more than that. And it's a natural progression of what vibranium can do.

    But the upgrade itself is a minor upgrade that, like the daggers, kimoyo, and energy damp boots, can be used in orthodox and unorthodox ways if the writer is creative. And so far for the comics we have seen some writers be creative with it while Coates hasn't. So again blame the writer not the upgrade

  15. #2250
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    People worried about the stupid suit when it is the stupid writer.

    Dude used the suit to beat up NON POWERED GOONS for christsake.

    The suit isn't the problem

    Narcisse didn't have a problem using the suit. Oh and imagine that, his Killmonger came prepared for the suit and worked around it just fine.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

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