Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[DigiCom]

I like to say that on a strength scale from 1 to 10, T'Challa is an H.

(Stands for "Hell if I know")

But then again, I'm not a Rumbles Board guy.

[XPac]

I like to say that on a strength scale from 1 to 10, T'Challa is an H.

(Stands for "Hell if I know")

But then again, I'm not a Rumbles Board guy.

Above Daredevil but below Spider-Man is really all you need to know, because honestly everything in that zone performs roughly the same anyways.

[Jabare]

Peak humans didn't use to be Superhuman, but that's shifted over several years. BP is superhuman, so is Cap. MCU Bucky is, but I'm not sure about 616 Bucky.

There is an ambiguous range between the average human and mid-tier. Sometimes writers even have normal humans like Daredevil and members of the Batfamily performing ridiculous feats. Peak human is the level above that. Cap surviving/beating the Hulk. BP beating werewolf type monsters in h2h and other characters like Black Dwarf.

Then you have another tier slightly above that with Spider-Man, Blade, Dark Hawk, etc. These aren't mid-tiers, but they have feats that put them in a higher range of strength. Even then, it's ambiguous you have characters like Spider-Man struggling against mere humans in h2h sometimes. Tom Brevoort also talked about stat drift a few years back on his blog. He said Battle Boarders tend to apply upper limits of strength as baselines for characters when those are more extreme moments of life and death like Spider-Man lifting that contraption on his back in that iconic scene.


I don't think Marvel makes handbooks anymore, but those were traditionally the indexes for these types of debates.

[Mekk80s]

Speaking of super humans and what not, i wish tchalla had the ability to turn into an unstoppable werepanther like creature in canon. That be dope also meta humans in DC are more of they're play on "mutants" while also doubling as a term for any rando with powers

[Jabare]

there are some alternate universe versions that can do that. Also in the Ultimate Avengers 2 cartoon, the Black Panther could change partially. I think it was just his head if I remember correctly.


Those movies weren't that good imo

[Ekie]

Terrax fight was off panel, and he had the help of the entire Illuminati. Including guys like Namor, Black Bolt, and Iron Man who are physically as strong or stronger than Terrax. It's not like BP was standing there slugging it out with Terrax solo.

And with Namor he was clearly prepped for he fight and using his gear.

Black Swan I'll give you. He straight up knocked her out. But I'm doubtful she's anywhere close to class 100.

I don't believe black panthers moved up to 100 class I don't even believe he's moved up to 50. But i do believe he is now faster than spiderman without question and his physical strength has increased To something slightly below Spider-Man. I've seen more and more websites and handbooks describe him as superhuman. It's unfortunate the writers have been unable to properly portray it and left it up to inference. Especially with coats being the writer of the solo (That is the biggest reason its not been set in stone).
Imo according to the writters

Peak Tchalla is Tchalla without the herb (David Loss)

Enhanced is with the herb ( all of his older feats)

Low superhuman is Tchalla personally empowered by Bast (The Tchalla we are waiting for the new writer to give us and define) personally the one I want to see expressed in video games and movies with a defined unique powers set unencumbered by peak human limitations.

[Ekie]

I agree entirely. Wakanda only needs as much mythology as needed in order to tell superhero stories about T'Challa. So basic info like the origin of vibranium and key Wakandan gods are necessary, but we don't need data pages about the achievements of a Black Panther from the era of the Mali Empire unless it's relevant to the plot. It's a balance, one that I think writers like Priest and McGregor did a decent enough job with. Wakanda is a setting to tell superhero stories in, not a DnD location. I think there are ways to explore more about Wakandan history and culture, but I think that's nearly as important as nailing T'Challa's characterization or giving him great villains.

I would have agreed before the MCU. Wakandan's concept has taken off in the non-comics fandom so much that it's a character all unto itself. Its in a different category than any setting for any hero.

[XPac]

I don't believe black panthers moved up to 100 class I don't even believe he's moved up to 50. But i do believe he is now faster than spiderman without question and his physical strength has increased To something slightly below Spider-Man. I've seen more and more websites and handbooks describe him as superhuman. It's unfortunate the writers have been unable to properly portray it and left it up to inference. Especially with coats being the writer of the solo (That is the biggest reason its not been set in stone).
Imo according to the writters

Peak Tchalla is Tchalla without the herb (David Loss)

Enhanced is with the herb ( all of his older feats)

Low superhuman is Tchalla personally empowered by Bast (The Tchalla we are waiting for the new writer to give us and define) personally the one I want to see expressed in video games and movies with a defined unique powers set unencumbered by peak human limitations.

The thing is, with the force push he doesn't even really need super human strength at least in the context of actual combat. Within limits, he can take super human blows and deliver that force right back. So up to a point at least, his gear allows him to take and deliver as much force as he needs. So the gear he got from Coates run effectively renders any slight strength or durability enhancements moot anyways. We may never gain a good idea of how strong and durable he is now as the suit from this point on will be doing a good share of the work.

[Ekie]

I think the bigger problem is the discrepancy due to plot. When T'Challa faced rider, he should of wrecked him. However, this was all a Homage to when Cap abd Batman fought but in reverse, really it should of ended with T'Challa beating him by knock out or seriously injuring him.

But then he dies stuff like going against terrax, knocking the isht out of swan and she isn't weak, and going in a straight up fight against Namor then beating back dwarf and makes you question where he is at, especially when the writer says something about it as well.

I would just say he is bast champion, the kotd gives him the knowledge a d skills of precious Panthers and have it manifest sometimes, fro. Different martial arts to experience with mystical power etc

Exactly! Fully co-sign.
Infact Panthers new powers should fluctuate. You know that silly prayer power up Coats gave Storm. Tell me why Panther can't get that? He is basts Avitar fully now his power levels come from her and hers from the faith of the wakandan ppl. The more inspired the Wakandan people are in Bast/Tchalla the more powerful Tchalla becomes.
That would properly explain away ALL power level fluctuations over history as well release him from any limitations. Make it a family secret that only Killmonger knows (which will help explain his victories as being smart and enough and well planed enough to always challenge Tchalla at his weaker points)

[Ekie]

Peak human traditionally is Cap. He's the peak of human perfection ... though later writers sometimes called him super human.

Hawkeye is just a human. A very athletic human, but not the peak of human perfection.

My understanding of power levels is

Low "peak human" (Vlad the implaer)
High peak. (Cap)
Enhanced (Hsh Tchalla)
Low super (Bast Tchalla or Gorgon)
Superhuman
Meta

[Mekk80s]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Tchalla get a boost in power overall. Not that he needs it but i'd like to see homeboy level up beyond street level, I wonder if that be possible without divine intervention from bast, probably not. Personally he deserves it, some vicious apex predator type stuff.

[MindofShadow]

I don't think Marvel makes handbooks anymore, but those were traditionally the indexes for these types of debates.

Once the internet became huge, these stopped being useful. In regards to battle board conversations anyway.

He said Battle Boarders tend to apply upper limits of strength as baselines for characters when those are more extreme moments of life and death like Spider-Man lifting that contraption on his back in that iconic scene.

Eh, kinda. Battle boarders use CONSISTENT high end feats. It has to happen a few times to be consistent.

That is why say... daredevil, despite being "human" is a bullet timer on battle boards. Because the dude consistently swats bullets with ease. Not in "extreme moments in life." But on Tuesday lol.

Consistent high end feats make the most sense because you can back them up with stuff that happened on panel. Instead of conjecture and made up tier lists.

It is the writers own fault for the mess. Stuff like daredevil and Bat family doing stuff that isn't human at all because they don't know how to write a human in a comic world. By feats, Batman is not fucking human lol. Dude is in the same comic book peak human as T'challa despite the "only a man" bullshit they use for him.

I used to hang on battle boards, that is why the blog started. T'challa was getting major disrespected and without evidence, you can't argue for a character. So I created the freaking evidence and kept it all in one place to pull it up as needed.

Sadly... what I found is that T'challa's feats kinda fucking sucking tbh lol. He was still disrespected but based on on panel actual stuff... he isn't super impressive. His nerve strikes are actually the one thing that people forget about them and he's done it enough to make it a thing (like Batman).

Cartoons and movies do a much better job with him

[MindofShadow]

I wouldn't hate T'challa at spider-man levels. And I wouldn't hate something where he gets periodic power ups while in Wakanda. Either the closer he is to Necropolis/Golden City the stronger he gets, via prayers, or via rare secret alchemy practices Wakandan kings can partake in for a temporary power boost.

But staying that...


Of all the other comic book peak human types, T'challa has a few potential innate things that allows him to "level up" already.

- a genius brain and a genius brain that allows him to form plan on plans AND adapt to any situation instantly strategically. This can be seen luring opponents into traps or simply just beating their ass with martial arts tactics. "prep time" is big rumble board thing. as is nerve strike stuff.

- Wakanda tech and the brain to use it. As famously said, "Wakanda technology is a match for anyone."


T'challa is a more wealthy Batman on herbal supplements lol

[XPac]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Tchalla get a boost in power overall. Not that he needs it but i'd like to see homeboy level up beyond street level, I wonder if that be possible without divine intervention from bast, probably not. Personally he deserves it, some vicious apex predator type stuff.

He can boost himself anytime he needs to with gear though, so it's not like he even needs divine intervention of any sort.

[DigiCom]

I wouldn't hate T'challa at spider-man levels. And I wouldn't hate something where he gets periodic power ups while in Wakanda. Either the closer he is to Necropolis/Golden City the stronger he gets, via prayers, or via rare secret alchemy practices Wakandan kings can partake in for a temporary power boost.

"By Wakandan law, the Fist of Bast calls forth the power… of TEN PANTHERS!"