Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[chief12d]

Just so we're not missing this important point. T'Challa must choose between his role as an Avengers, as a King and the yearnings of his heart? Is there an old flame returning or is there a new LI about to be intro'ed?

T'Challa front and center as the warrior-king he was meant to be? Backed up by the support of his friends, family, and nation? Finding a new lover two months after a crappy breakup? I'll be getting multiple copies of this lol. If we get Malaika, Zanda, or anyone else I'll be shocked and fully convinced there's more on the horizon. Redjack out here uplifting black heroes across universes, first Vixen, then John Stewart, now T'Challa.

[Frontier]

Just so we're not missing this important point. T'Challa must choose between his role as an Avengers, as a King and the yearnings of his heart? Is there an old flame returning or is there a new LI about to be intro'ed?

Kind of reminds me of the main conflict of Panther's Quest. I didn't automatically assume the yearning was for a woman but for being a Doc Savage Adventurer type.

[Marvell2100]

Kind of reminds me of the main conflict of Panther's Quest. I didn't automatically assume the yearning was for a woman but for being a Doc Savage Adventurer type.

Well, he's King, he leads The Avengers(adventure), he's protecting Wakanda.

What else could his heart be yearning for(Besides not getting another pyrrhic victory. Not on Redjack's watch!)? All that's left is a good LI.

Oh yeah, and for Coates to be done and gone.

[KingNomarch]

Just so we're not missing this important point. T'Challa must choose between his role as an Avengers, as a King and the yearnings of his heart? Is there an old flame returning or is there a new LI about to be intro'ed?

Plz let there be a new LI

[Frontier]

Well, he's King, he leads The Avengers(adventure), he's protecting Wakanda.

What else could his heart be yearning for(Besides not getting another pyrrhic victory. Not on Redjack's watch!)? All that's left is a good LI.

Oh yeah, and for Coates to be done and gone.

I feel like The Avengers are a different sort of thing, but I was just going off Redjack's comic pitch for how he envisioned Black Panther as a character.

[Cville]

Nice, BP vs a symbiote(s). I hope to see some very good things happening.

But it still begs the question: We can get a King In Black tie-in(although they cancelled the AoW tie-in for Empyre) but we can't get two lousy issues of the solo put out to finish it?

What kind of chicken-**** operation are we running here?

Especially since their fighting symbiotes. When hes supposed to be fighting one in the solo. Lol

Might as well have Knull take over the Galactic fleet and finish it in the one shot.

[chief12d]

I feel like The Avengers are a different sort of thing, but I was just going off Redjack's comic pitch for how he envisioned Black Panther as a character.

That's valid too. If this is set up for a Redjack run on BP then maybe this is planting the seeds for T'Challa to be a more global hero. Hopefully he doesn't need to give up the throne to do so, but at this point I just want good stories with T'Challa.

[Marvell2100]

Especially since their fighting symbiotes. When hes supposed to be fighting one in the solo. Lol

Might as well have Knull take over the Galactic fleet and finish it in the one shot.

They're a fighting symbiote in the solo? Whaaat?

Lol, I imagine the solo is pretty much an afterthought at this point.

A lotta people don't like Aaron's Avengers but he's getting big props. He had a decent-to-good showing in Empyre. He shrugged off a direct shot from an X-book.

So Coates gonna come around with 2 issues of what? Nobody wants to read about Noble Negro, lifeless stiff, can't do anything right, weak sauce Panther anymore.

What can he put out that's going to come close to what we've been getting lately? Another pyrrhic victory.

[chief12d]

They're a fighting symbiote in the solo? Whaaat?

Lol, I imagine the solo is pretty much an afterthought at this point.

A lotta people don't like Aaron's Avengers but he's getting big props. He had a decent-to-good showing in Empyre. He shrugged off a direct shot from an X-book.

So Coates gonna come around with 2 issues of what? Nobody wants to read about Noble Negro, lifeless stiff, can't do anything right, weak sauce Panther anymore.

What can he put out that's going to come close to what we've been getting lately? Another pyrrhic victory.

Whatever Coates does I'm increasingly confident gets ignored or overwritten in the next run. T'Challa's been pretty consistently competent and confident in his various guest appearances. The only thing from Coates that has really bled into the greater MU is the designs for Shuri and the Dora lol.

The take on his voice seems to be stronger and more consistent under virtually every writer than it has been in the solo and I'm hoping this is a sign that Marvel knows what fans of the character want and expect. The feckless, swagless, and weak Black Panther we've been getting for a few years doesn't feel like it'll continue past this run. Maybe Marvel's finally got the formula to make T'Challa work.

[Marvell2100]

Whatever Coates does I'm increasingly confident gets ignored or overwritten in the next run. T'Challa's been pretty consistently competent and confident in his various guest appearances. The only thing from Coates that has really bled into the greater MU is the designs for Shuri and the Dora lol.

The take on his voice seems to be stronger and more consistent under virtually every writer than it has been in the solo and I'm hoping this is a sign that Marvel knows what fans of the character want and expect. The feckless, swagless, and weak Black Panther we've been getting for a few years doesn't feel like it'll continue past this run. Maybe Marvel's finally got the formula to make T'Challa work.

Yeah, give him to a writer who wants to make T'Challa great again. Reading Coates' Panther and comparing him to Redjack's or Aaron's make you think that there must be two entirely different people in the habit

[chief12d]

Coates' T'Challa made sense in the first few issues to be fair. Wakanda had been dragged through the mud for years (Doomwar, Namor, Thanos) so it's perfectly justifiable narratively for him to be a bit mopey. He'd been through a lot and understandably the political and spiritual foundations of Wakanda had been shaken to their core. He may have restored the kingdom at the end of Secret Wars, but the collective traumas of defeat and genocide don't heal immediately.

The issue is he dragged the **** out and kept playing the same old tired beats. A Nation Under Our Feet should've been 7 issues max and T'Challa should've been completely redeemed by the end of it. He should've been shown to be a more active agent in Wakanda's reconciliation and started the second arc completely validated in his beliefs and methods. We kinda got that in the first issue or 2 of Avengers of the New World but it didn't last and we got Coates' traditional T'Challa again.

But ever since the first arc we've been getting these ensembles where he's constantly relying on his supporting cast, always unsure of himself, and simply not doing cool ****. He writes a T'Challa that to this day is broken and unconfident, which is simply not the mode he's supposed to be in on a regular basis. T'Challa faces setbacks and defeats (he should every now and then as I'm sure Redjack would agree), but he's not tortured by his throne or constantly worrying about his place in the world.

He's not Batman or Daredevil, hopelessly wallowing in guilt or unease, and I think that's what separates Coates from Redjack's or Priest's T'Challa. They had him WORK for his victories but they didn't have him cry to the Queen Mother or Storm and break into soliloquies whenever **** got tough lol. They do a much better job of communicating the struggles and dualities of T'Challa as a hero/king, maintaining the core of his voice and keeping the story centered on him.

[Huntsman Spider]

Coates' T'Challa made sense in the first few issues to be fair. Wakanda had been dragged through the mud for years (Doomwar, Namor, Thanos) so it's perfectly justifiable narratively for him to be a bit mopey. He'd been through a lot and understandably the political and spiritual foundations of Wakanda had been shaken to their core. He may have restored the kingdom at the end of Secret Wars, but the collective traumas of defeat and genocide don't heal immediately.

The issue is he dragged the **** out and kept playing the same old tired beats. A Nation Under Our Feet should've been 7 issues max and T'Challa should've been completely redeemed by the end of it. He should've been shown to be a more active agent in Wakanda's reconciliation and started the second arc completely validated in his beliefs and methods. We kinda got that in the first issue or 2 of Avengers of the New World but it didn't last and we got Coates' traditional T'Challa again.

But ever since the first arc we've been getting these ensembles where he's constantly relying on his supporting cast, always unsure of himself, and simply not doing cool ****. He writes a T'Challa that to this day is broken and unconfident, which is simply not the mode he's supposed to be in on a regular basis. T'Challa faces setbacks and defeats (he should every now and then as I'm sure Redjack would agree), but he's not tortured by his throne or constantly worrying about his place in the world. He's not Batman or Daredevil, hopelessly wallowing in guilt or unease, and I think that's what separates Coates from Redjack's or Priest's T'Challa. They WORKED for their victories but they didn't cry to the Queen Mother or Storm and break into soliloquies whenever **** got tough lol.

Or even Spider-Man, who at least quips and snarks a lot to hide from enemies and allies alike that he's a self-loathing borderline emotional/psychological wreck of a human being. Yeah, I can generally agree with your assessment, and to add a little more --- Black Panther with the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda should have escalated to a whole new level of Afrofuturistic greatness in mainstream superhero comics, but alas . . . not as good as it could or should have been, to say the least.

[Ezyo1000]

Just so we're not missing this important point. T'Challa must choose between his role as an Avengers, as a King and the yearnings of his heart? Is there an old flame returning or is there a new LI about to be intro'ed?

Man i wish this wasn't a one shot. It beeds to be a 3-6 part mini atleast

[Ezyo1000]

Coates' T'Challa made sense in the first few issues to be fair. Wakanda had been dragged through the mud for years (Doomwar, Namor, Thanos) so it's perfectly justifiable narratively for him to be a bit mopey. He'd been through a lot and understandably the political and spiritual foundations of Wakanda had been shaken to their core. He may have restored the kingdom at the end of Secret Wars, but the collective traumas of defeat and genocide don't heal immediately.

The issue is he dragged the **** out and kept playing the same old tired beats. A Nation Under Our Feet should've been 7 issues max and T'Challa should've been completely redeemed by the end of it. He should've been shown to be a more active agent in Wakanda's reconciliation and started the second arc completely validated in his beliefs and methods. We kinda got that in the first issue or 2 of Avengers of the New World but it didn't last and we got Coates' traditional T'Challa again.

But ever since the first arc we've been getting these ensembles where he's constantly relying on his supporting cast, always unsure of himself, and simply not doing cool ****. He writes a T'Challa that to this day is broken and unconfident, which is simply not the mode he's supposed to be in on a regular basis. T'Challa faces setbacks and defeats (he should every now and then as I'm sure Redjack would agree), but he's not tortured by his throne or constantly worrying about his place in the world.

He's not Batman or Daredevil, hopelessly wallowing in guilt or unease, and I think that's what separates Coates from Redjack's or Priest's T'Challa. They had him WORK for his victories but they didn't have him cry to the Queen Mother or Storm and break into soliloquies whenever **** got tough lol. They do a much better job of communicating the struggles and dualities of T'Challa as a hero/king, maintaining the core of his voice and keeping the story centered on him.

This is the result when you hire a self loathing, pessimistic, any showing of power from a black man is toxic/ no man can resist being around beautiful women and not take advantage of them, anti black weak beta male writers. Coates operates off such a defeated and deflated mindset that he can't fathom positive showings of black people or the importance of inspiration. Like what kid wants to read his panther? And who would be inspired by it? Kids want and resonate with MCU and T'Chadwick (rip King) and the versions that Priest, Hudlin, Redjack and JA are showing. Kids want to feel like they can be that hero, not read about the title character being told and acting like they ain't isht.

I truly hope this king in black turns into something more

[chief12d]

Or even Spider-Man, who at least quips and snarks a lot to hide from enemies and allies alike that he's a self-loathing borderline emotional/psychological wreck of a human being. Yeah, I can generally agree with your assessment, and to add a little more --- Black Panther with the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda should have escalated to a whole new level of Afrofuturistic greatness in mainstream superhero comics, but alas . . . not as good as it could or should have been, to say the least.

I was thinking of adding Spider-Man to that, but I had rationalized that at least he tries to use humor to put on a brave face lol. Dudes like Batman and Daredevil don't even get to do that and are borderline depressed in multiple stories. But definitely, Spider-Man's a great example as well, the number of heroes that are truly down on their luck and constantly feeling defeated or beleaguered isn't that high. T'Challa doesn't fit that archetype because he's basically Mansa Musa meets Doc Savage. A reformist king with a lot on his mind, but at his core he's an adventurer who does his best to lead his people and the world.

The thing about the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda for me is that it was boring, most of it was just fighting redshirt aliens. I feel part of it was Coates overcorrecting for the lack of action in the first 2 seasons, he thought throwing in a bunch of pages of T'Challa killing mooks was all he needed to spruce things up. And while he did solid worldbuilding for the IGEW, it's got arguably got the worst pacing in the entire run. Despite being hyped as a cosmic Middle Passage of some sort, it didn't really push the thematic boundaries of the mythos or illuminate our understanding of T'Challa. All we got is T'Challa getting blamed for daring to send Wakandans into space and learning he's the type of guy that would ignore obvious slavery.