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  1. #1771
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I definately think T'Challa is a different sort of leader than Steve. He's more pro-active. ANd I think that's a nice pay off for the readers. With Steve we know what he knows, but with T'Challa there's more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, which can pay off later. Steve is front and center literally and figuratively, while T'Challa is behind the scenes literally and figuratively. It's cool that he can be potrayed effective in a different way.
    Perhaps, but when we are talking about the comics medium you have to thread a small needle cause showcasing a "behind the scenes strategist" has a chance to look a whole lot like "passive as hell" We need to see the man that commands the respect and admiration of a nation and his own deity!

  2. #1772
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    On another note, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how nonsensical Zenzi and Tetu's characters are. Zenzi is a Nigandan that was experimented on by Killmonger and later left to die with the others that Killmonger had killed because they were deemed failures. So why did she join Tetu and what's her beef with T'Challa?

    If she wanted an end to dictators then shouldn't she have used her powers to take out the revolving door of dictators that keep running her country.

    Tetu had the same philosophy as the "No One Man" stuff and that the power belongs to the people and not a single person or family. Here he is, along with Zenzi serving an emperor who's empire was built on oppression and slavery. Not to mention the Nazis that Zenzi worked for and how she's now serving the guy that experimented on her people and left her for dead or how ok Tetu was about his men committing rape, murdering Wakandans, or selling out portions of Wakanda to outsiders.

    Nothing they've done in the past 4 years lines up with what they preach.
    Yeah this has driven me nuts too, but it's Coates and he consistently ignores his own continuity and for someone who claims "realism" he sure does have his characters act very unrealistic. Tetu and Zenzi like you said, would never work with Erik let alone be part of his empire, Zenzi should be trying to kill him for what he did to her and empire N'Jadaka is what Tetu hates about tchalla but 10x worse. But they joined him, and even how they knew about him doesn't make sense even because he is from a different dimension. But this is what he does and he does a terrible job at it

  3. #1773
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium Weave View Post
    I was wondering if people were tried of Coates on Cap as well. I noticed his sales dropped for the Captain America title as well last month.
    Word on the street is the story is dragging and their worried about MCU synergy bringing Peggy in and pushing Sharon out.

    Also they suspect plot changes because solicits haven't been lining up with the issues when they come out.

    And their fan casting the next writer beaisetissue 25 seems to be the final before a reboot

  4. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I definately think T'Challa is a different sort of leader than Steve. He's more pro-active. ANd I think that's a nice pay off for the readers. With Steve we know what he knows, but with T'Challa there's more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, which can pay off later. Steve is front and center literally and figuratively, while T'Challa is behind the scenes literally and figuratively. It's cool that he can be potrayed effective in a different way.
    I agree, there's nothing wrong with making a distinction in the leadership styles as long as they're both portrayed well. Aaron is clearly writing T'Challa as a cerebral leader who plays his cards close to his chest and I'm fine with that as long as there's positive results. That approach doesn't lend itself to great tactical feats issue to issue but it's worth it if he gets to show why he's the most dangerous man alive.

  5. #1775
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Perhaps, but when we are talking about the comics medium you have to thread a small needle cause showcasing a "behind the scenes strategist" has a chance to look a whole lot like "passive as hell" We need to see the man that commands the respect and admiration of a nation and his own deity!
    This too. Which is why it's important that all these secretive actions on T'Challa's part end up paying off in a big way(s). Otherwise it was all for nothing and he looks like he had his head stuck up in the clouds while Cap and others actually drove the team to victory. BP's intel needs to play a major role in helping the Avengers take down the threat and Aaron has at least laid some of the seeds for that to happen. He's had agents investigate Atlantis, made a personal visit to Coulson, and while the other Avengers were relaxing he was trying to connect all the dots.

  6. #1776
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Perhaps, but when we are talking about the comics medium you have to thread a small needle cause showcasing a "behind the scenes strategist" has a chance to look a whole lot like "passive as hell" We need to see the man that commands the respect and admiration of a nation and his own deity!
    As long as you don't compare him to Captain America (which admittedly is hard to do for any Avengers chair person when Cap is standing right there in the room), T'Challa comes off fine.

    Commanding respect and admiration is Steve's real super power. By the end of JLA/Avenger he was ordering around Batman and Superman. By the end of Infinity, the leader of every great power in the universe was under under his command. Kings and gods take orders from Steve... it's his thing.

    But in a void, T'Challa is fine. There's no lack of respect or admiration... it's just not quite on the level of Steve. Again, that's Steves real super power.

  7. #1777
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    This too. Which is why it's important that all these secretive actions on T'Challa's part end up paying off in a big way(s). Otherwise it was all for nothing and he looks like he had his head stuck up in the clouds while Cap and others actually drove the team to victory. BP's intel needs to play a major role in helping the Avengers take down the threat and Aaron has at least laid some of the seeds for that to happen. He's had agents investigate Atlantis, made a personal visit to Coulson, and while the other Avengers were relaxing he was trying to connect all the dots.
    I suspect that's the whole point of Agents of Wakanda. Aside from the super hero stuff they're doing in their own book presumably they are a part of whatever T'Challa's grand design is. He couldn't have just randomly thrown together a group of C listers for the hell of it... there has to be a plan here.

  8. #1778
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    The anime "Future Avengers" is on Disney+. I just watched the BP episode. Not too bad, seemed liked they pulled some of the Earths Mightiest hero characterization plus his first appearance in the other Avengers cartoon for the dub. Had some traditional guest character fight beats though.

    Had some good art though. I'd take a 12 episode solo series with that team.
    Last edited by Cville; 02-28-2020 at 08:03 PM.

  9. #1779
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    As long as you don't compare him to Captain America (which admittedly is hard to do for any Avengers chair person when Cap is standing right there in the room), T'Challa comes off fine.

    Commanding respect and admiration is Steve's real super power. By the end of JLA/Avenger he was ordering around Batman and Superman. By the end of Infinity, the leader of every great power in the universe was under under his command. Kings and gods take orders from Steve... it's his thing.

    But in a void, T'Challa is fine. There's no lack of respect or admiration... it's just not quite on the level of Steve. Again, that's Steves real super power.
    My bro I couldn't disagree with you any more. That perspective is one you and a lot of other people have, and you there's nothing wrong with that considering the history that has been written for Captain America. He's always written to just be better and I have seen nothing to substantiate why he's a superior leader to T'challa. Hickman's Infinity was a great series but I thought something of that magnitude I would easily put T'challa in, and he would have faired as well if not better. Endgame had a more realistic dicpictation of there standing and Steve wasn't providing any of supreme influence of the battle. He gave a battle cry and it was all out war for everything. Its T'challa that had some display of battle tactics and strategy first in his own movie and then in Infinity War movie.

  10. #1780
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    The anime "Future Avengers" is on Disney+. I just watched the BP episode. Not too bad, seemed liked they pulled some of the Earths Mightiest hero characterization plus his first appearance in the other Avengers cartoon for the dub. Had some traditional guest character fight beats though.

    Had some good art though. I'd take a 12 episode solo series with that team.
    Is that the anime style avengers show?

  11. #1781
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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  12. #1782
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Is that the anime style avengers show?
    It's an anime. They dubbed it with the American cartoon cast. I think someone posted the video of him fighting Klaw sometime back.

  13. #1783
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Last we saw Changemire was in the woods doing paperwork to setup the govt..

    Only way the memory thing works is if the majority of the soldiers are like Eden was and they had their minds wiped and forced to join the military.
    Actually, the last time we saw Changy, he was the interim symbiote host between Emperor N'Jadaka and zombie N'Jadaka.

    I forget if he was killed in the process, and there's no way I'm going to look it up.

  14. #1784
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I suspect that's the whole point of Agents of Wakanda. Aside from the super hero stuff they're doing in their own book presumably they are a part of whatever T'Challa's grand design is. He couldn't have just randomly thrown together a group of C listers for the hell of it... there has to be a plan here.
    "Keep reading! I'm sure it will make sense at the end!"

    By now, you all should know how I feel about that comment. It didn't work with Hickman, it didn't work with Coates, and I sincerely doubt it will work with Aaron.

    Actually, Coates' writing reminds me a lot of Hickman at his worst: Big themes, poor characterization, offscreen action, unearned resolutions, ancient secrets, and the occasional side story (like last ish) that fills time but doesn't seem to move the story along.

    All TNC is missing is a diagram with a lot of lines & circles.

  15. #1785
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Actually, the last time we saw Changy, he was the interim symbiote host between Emperor N'Jadaka and zombie N'Jadaka.

    I forget if he was killed in the process, and there's no way I'm going to look it up.
    I should have put a comma after "saw" instead of "Chang". I was referring to the last reference of the new government.

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