Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

100%. Well, 90% because you are puttin gyour adult brains in kids. Black boys aren't gonna dress as a female black panther on halloween or buy girl toys. I have two boys. The only "girl" toy in the house is Skye from Paw Patrol and the girl from PJ mask. They ain't buying girl super hero toys. They dont play with girl super heroes on Lego Marvel on PS4. That just isn't what kids do.

But yes... black female leads are really important. So... go push for those black female lead franchises. Don't cannibalize the only black male one. Y'all should be screaming for Spectrum, screaming for Storm, screaming for Vixen, Bumble Bee, Misty Knight. Put that energy towards minority females.

Look at the situation realistically.

On one hand you have a BP movie which potentially has a 50% chance of having a black female lead. And on the other hand you have Misty Knight movie/TV show that doesn't exist.

Which do you think people are going to invest their energy in?

[MindofShadow]

Let them finish T'Challa's story first before going into Shuri.

It started with T'Challa, let it end with him.

T'Challa is a character that has been in the comics for 54 years and has other story arcs that are yet to be explored compared to Shuri who has only been around for 15 years where her reign even as Black Panther was short-lived. It's funny we didn't get the same suggestion that Superman should be replaced by Supergirl or letting Batgirl replace Batman but for BP, it has always been the case of replacing T'challa even after the first BP movie and because to Chafwick's's death (bless his soul), some of y'all have been aggressive with Shuri taking his place. I hate to say this but this seems like a hidden agenda to me.

Bruh, it ain't hidden lolololol

Kinda weird you don't ever here people pushing for Monica to take over Captain Marvel eh?

[XPac]

Bruh, it ain't hidden lolololol

Kinda weird you don't ever here people pushing for Monica to take over Captain Marvel eh?

Not to be morbid... but if Brie died, I'll bet you would. The little girl Carol met back in the day is an obviously potential candidate as a legacy character.

[Dboi654]

There's definately an agenda there, and isn't not even hidden. People on twitter or whatever are wearing it on their sleeve.

Certain people want to push for a black female lead in a movie. There hasn't been any, and realistically apart from Shuri there might not be any. This might be the only shot for a black female lead in a marvel tv show or movie. So they do what people pushing social agenda's do... they try and make noise. Realistically speaking it won't make any sort of difference whatsoever because the BP movie is likely to make a ton of money regardless of whether people are complaining about it or not... but they're still going to try. That's how social media works.

If they want to put Shuri as a leading woman in the MCU, then let her have her own spin-off movie/series where she is her own character, her own costume/abilities and not derivative of an already existing main hero.

[Nate Grey]

Debatable bro, "the message " in part could be somewhat co-opted by swapping a black woman in for a black man. A good job was done by carving out, and defining who/what was Shuri in the movie. Let that process continue organically to its end. Why not let T'Challa continue on in his path as Black Panther. Seeing a black man with agency has a different feel and meaning especially when we look at current culture. We have a Shuri still, we have Nakia, and Okoye. We will have Monica and a Storm. We take away T'Challa, and who else will be the role or image that young and old black males can look to?

For black boys it would.

Without T'challa, they will have, let me check my MCU movie notes real quick....

ummm

hmmm

I guess Blade in 2038 lol? I think one of the Eternals is black.

Even in the own BP franchise, all you have left is M'baku. W'kabi is a traitor, Killmonger is evil and dead. Zuri is dead. The rest of the cast is black female (Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, Ramonda)

T'challa got one movie and then 15 minutes of screen time spread out between three Avengers films. His story is no where near done.

These two get it.

This is the elephant in the room. The little black BOYS are only ever supposed to have a hero for a short time. A hero like T'challa I mean. One that is a leader in his own right, with a unique powerset, that's an EQUAL among his non-black counterparts, and not just a sidekick. People were chomping at the bit for Shuri to replace him before Mr. Boseman passed, like I said countless times this only moved the timetable up in their minds, they were willing to wait 2 to 3 movies (remember folks saying "He only has so many movies left on his contract!" like reupping like Hemsworth did with Thor was out of the question). And unlike folks' view of T'challa as king, no one is saying let Shuri be queen for a short time. He was only ever a path for Shuri.

So yeah, this all comes off as **** little black boys go back to your Falcon and Cyborg toys. Every time I hear/read this about Shuri.

[Dboi654]

Bruh, it ain't hidden lolololol

Kinda weird you don't ever here people pushing for Monica to take over Captain Marvel eh?

Lol you're right.

[Nate Grey]

Bruh, it ain't hidden lolololol

Kinda weird you don't ever here people pushing for Monica to take over Captain Marvel eh?

Um, I did! Well sort of. I said the Monica will always be Captain Marvel to me. I remember when my folks (yes both were into comics heavily) got the Monica issues when she was drawn like Pam Grier. That'll always be Capt. Marvel to me.

[XPac]

If they want to put Shuri as a leading woman in the MCU, then let her have her own spin-off movie/series where she is her own character, her own costume/abilities and not derivative of an already existing main hero.

I'm sure plenty of people would be happy about that IF it existed. If marvel announced a Shuri spin off movie or TV show, people probably wouldn't be having this conversation. But right now there's only 1 Black Panther project with Shuri at least in the eyes of the media being a potential candidate for the lead. So naturally people supporting the notion of a female lead are going to champion that because again it's all they have right now. And possibly all they ever will have.

[dkrook]

Look at the situation realistically.

On one hand you have a BP movie which potentially has a 50% chance of having a black female lead. And on the other hand you have Misty Knight movie/TV show that doesn't exist.

Which do you think people are going to invest their energy in?

Bro you still aren't addressing the issue of removing a hard fought status of a black male hero and the impact it has had. Giving this percentage thing does nothing to assuage removing T'Challa off the world's biggest stage.

[XPac]

Bro you still aren't addressing the issue of removing a hard fought status of a black male hero and the impact it has had. Giving this percentage thing does nothing to assuage removing T'Challa off the world's biggest stage.

For the people championing a black female lead, that's obviously not going to be their primary concern. They're likely going to just tell folks to enjoy Falcon and Blade, and go on to champion their own agenda.

Of course, IMO all this back and forth debate is somewhat moot. I think Coogler is going to do whatever he feels works better for the story he wants to tell, and that will be that. If he's got more T'Challa stories to tell he'll do that, and the people wanting a female lead will have to learn to live with the disappointment. And of course the same applies if Coogler decides to instead shift focus to Shuri. Ultimately it's not going to be Cooglers PRIMARY job to appease any sort of social agenda... not that it's not important to him, but I'm doubtful it will be the deciding factor in what he does moving foreward.

[Overhazard]

These two get it.

This is the elephant in the room. The little black BOYS are only ever supposed to have a hero for a short time. A hero like T'challa I mean. One that is a leader in his own right, with a unique powerset, that's an EQUAL among his non-black counterparts, and not just a sidekick. People were chomping at the bit for Shuri to replace him before Mr. Boseman passed, like I said countless times this only moved the timetable up in their minds, they were willing to wait 2 to 3 movies (remember folks saying "He only has so many movies left on his contract!" like reupping like Hemsworth did with Thor was out of the question). And unlike folks' view of T'challa as king, no one is saying let Shuri be queen for a short time. He was only ever a path for Shuri.

So yeah, this all comes off as **** little black boys go back to your Falcon and Cyborg toys. Every time I hear/read this about Shuri.

I think this might have to do with the fact that our culture has turned equality into a zero sum game. In order for one group to "gain" another has to "lose" when it really doesn't have to be that way. People say that representation means a seat at the table, but we've made it into a very dumb game of musical chairs instead of paying attention to who owns the table, or just making a bigger table.

[Ezyo1000]

Whether or not she does rule, the fact that she is Royal and next in line should mean that she's prepared to rule. That's the issue here. T'Challa already died once (twice if you count Infinity War), so it would be stupid and negligent not to prepare her for the job.

Again, my point is completely indepenent of her ever becoming BP... even if that's not Cooglers plan the characters in the story shouldn't know that. They should prepare the next person in line for the role in the event that something happens (like what happened in the first movie). It's fine that she's a lab rat and all, but they should have certain obligations to Wakanda people that they need to meet.

I'm surprised you of all people are taking this stance... you constantly argue that marvel should show the concept of the Wakandan monarchy is a good light, yet you defend the notion that the Royal family aren't and shouldn't be properly preparing members of the royal family for the job of ruling their nation. If they're not going to do that then they might as well start having elections, because the system obviously won't work if he royal family doesn't do it's job to prepare their heirs for the job.

Show me where I stated that they shouldn't prepare her for ruling? Because I didn't say that at all, I said if the plane was to have her take over then it would of been smart to use EG to have her get the experience needed to actually grow organically. Before the events of CW, T'Challa was bp for 10 years.. the two year jump from BP to IW and the 5 year gap would of given her ample time to prepare had she survived the snap. Shuri is not a warrior at heart. She is likely able to defend herself but she is not and has not expressed interest in ruling.

So since the opportunity to prepare her has passed. What the hell sense would it make to have her all of a sudden be prepped and ready to rule when she simply isn't the best warrior? When T'Challa "died" in the Solo Nakia said okoye was the greatest warrior in Wakanda. Shuri ain't gonna stand up to that. Not without BS changes. She has her own path and it doesn't appear to be to the throne. Maybe thst will change in the future but it has to come naturally and not forced.

[MindofShadow]

These two get it.

This is the elephant in the room. The little black BOYS are only ever supposed to have a hero for a short time. A hero like T'challa I mean. One that is a leader in his own right, with a unique powerset, that's an EQUAL among his non-black counterparts, and not just a sidekick. People were chomping at the bit for Shuri to replace him before Mr. Boseman passed, like I said countless times this only moved the timetable up in their minds, they were willing to wait 2 to 3 movies (remember folks saying "He only has so many movies left on his contract!" like reupping like Hemsworth did with Thor was out of the question). And unlike folks' view of T'challa as king, no one is saying let Shuri be queen for a short time. He was only ever a path for Shuri.

So yeah, this all comes off as **** little black boys go back to your Falcon and Cyborg toys. Every time I hear/read this about Shuri.

Lol you're right.

Um, I did! Well sort of. I said the Monica will always be Captain Marvel to me. I remember when my folks (yes both were into comics heavily) got the Monica issues when she was drawn like Pam Grier. That'll always be Capt. Marvel to me.

I don't ever remember any "kill off Steve for Sam!" campaigns

or kill off Strange for Voodoo campaigns

or kill off Stark for Rhodey campaigns. Hell, where are the RiRi campaigns right now??????

or kill off Parker for Miles.

or complaints that it is Thor 4 instead of Valkryie? She's the queen of Asgard right? Where are her fans at?

But give T'challa one movie and it is time for him to move aside for the rise of Shuri. And it has been constant, at every opportunity.

[MindofShadow]

I think this might have to do with the fact that our culture has turned equality into a zero sum game. In order for one group to "gain" another has to "lose" when it really doesn't have to be that way. People say that representation means a seat at the table, but we've made it into a very dumb game of musical chairs instead of paying attention to who owns the table, or just making a bigger table.

"the culture" is just fighting each other for scraps at the little kiddie table wihle the big table is having full thanksgiving dinner.

[chief12d]

Shuri is in a completely different stratosphere than Monica Rambeau and Storm, similar to how T’Challa stands head and shoulders above Falcon and War Machine. In either situation you have a black LEAD, not a supporting character to a white hero but an entity with the level of agency only a handful of heroes on the big screen get. The push for Shuri is/has been so strong because people looking for a black female superhero franchise know its better than anything else that can be offered. For some, T’Challa was ALWAYS a placeholder for her because black women, relative to their population and cultural influence are extremely underrepresented in the superhero genre.